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Old 09-26-2012, 03:35 AM   #1
PQ
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NFL Refs Lockout..........

So there has been no thread dedicated to this.

What is your opinion on the lockout?

Economics
Performance
Effects
etc.............................

Here is an e-mail I had sent to my dad and others talking about this.

Won't come as much surprise to some. How bout some of your feelings on it as well.

Quote:
The last union or striking or locked out contract group that went on strike or got locked out over poor work conditions was a LONG time ago. Itís MONEY. And itís UNLICENSED labor. Jobs that ANYONE can be trained to do. So once again the NFL owners are villains.

Guess what? It's THEIR league. Other than the Packers individual franchise, the NFL is not even publicly traded. (not that it would matter but this is a PRIVATE business)

As far as the regular officials, they act like they were perfect when they were reffing. Well they sucked too. Funny how everyone conveniently forgot how shitty the regular refs were anyway. Thatís why the NFL wants full time officials. Full time officials would be much better. How good can we expect part time refs to be? I hope they all lose their plush gig for good. Over 100k for 4 months a year. Holy shit.

Basically, the NFL wants full time officials and they realize that they can get better officiating (than the regular refs) for the money they are offering. WHOA, a sound business decisionÖ?.... how DARE they!!!

Well, this is the perfect opportunity for them to get it done.

If they were to cave and pay the locked out refs top dollar now and make them full time then it's only a matter of time before those ****ers strike for even more. If these current refs (the replacements) are made full time then the officiating will only get better. And even better than it's ever been, and more affordably. Why should a referee be Ďentitled toí that much freaking money and benefits? Did they go to school for 8 years and do 2 years of internship to be a ref? Do they have a world class skill that canít be found anywhere else? Did they use their knowledge and entrepreneurship skills and take the risk to start this business? Holy shit. 150k is pretty damn good money for a full time gig officiating 3 months a year. And a 401k is as good as even I could hope for. Hell, I have to do it myself. I own a freaking business with all the risks and time involved and wont' ever come close to that. Point being that they have all the freedom in the world to go work somewhere else.

In the article I linked below they talk about the NFL making 9 billion dollars Ďso they can afford to pay moreí. [IMG]file:///C:\Users\RANDYA~1\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\ 01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG] Spoken like true American crabs. Iím sick of the ĎI couldnít get it done myself so someone who COULD get it done owes meĒ way of thinking.

Economy as bad as it is right now and these ****ers are complaining that the 150k in salary to ref for 16 weekends a year and practice full time is not enough. Iím thinking it doesnít take rocket scientists to learn to be a Football ref. This is a good business decision by the NFL to make full time refs and there will be NO SHORTAGE of perfectly qualified people to do it that will be willing to do so for that kind of money. To artificially inflate the salary standard would be more stupid business. The pathetic part about it is that itís that kind of thinking that keeps those people from making it themselves in the first place. So they pile it on others who HAVE made it happen.

Once again, people who sign checks on the back and not on the front pissed because the owners won't give up more. Me and Bonnie had half our business fortunately turnkey to us and was scary as hell to quit everything and go into debt and give it a shot. Building the other half of our business cost us almost as much as we made. And thank God we did because thatís what is keeping it running now, and in this economy it is damned expensive and takes WAY more time and money than I ever thought it would. Itís scary as hell to spend the kind of money we do just to stay in business and make little more than we did before the business. I have to try and figure out wether this type, or that type of advertising will kill us or not. And I donít have 15k a month to advertise but I do spend about 5k per month. And this is what just keeps us going. So if I make the wrong decision on where to advertise at the wrong time it can kill us. Itís really stressful and quite scary. Now Iím not complaining because we are blessed to still be in business but for the first time in mine and Bonnies lives together we have taken a step back. Not devastatingly but our profits are only even for the first time in 3 years. It used to be positive by about 25k per year til the past 2. Iím spending at a loss to grow now. In a year or so I could literally have spent all of our 3 years of profit prior to that. I say all that to say thisÖÖÖ.. If we ever DID make it big we could be ****ing villainized and held hostage by our employees. For all the risk and work and time and stress that we put in, we are dicks because we want to keep as much as we can? Even so, what kind of bullshit system tells me what I can and canít do with my money? All of this time that Iím risking all of this, my future would be employees are working for someone else without much care. No risk. No betterment debt. No advertising. No overhead. Or they are still in high school or younger. And yet they can come to me years from now were I to grow huge and strike for more money. When Iím paying them pretty ****ing good already. They are already enjoying the benefits of my risk. And if I donít pay my employees what they want then they can LEAVE. And I end up with shitty employees if I donít pay well and my business suffers. So I have to pay fairly. THATís how itís supposed to work. Well the NFL is trying to do just that. Provide better officiating (a better product) than has been given the past years and want to pay fair wages. 4 months per year for 150k is pretty freaking fair. (And anyone who still sees the profits of the NFL as so much money they should have to give more, then you are one of the problems. My opinion of course)

So, now weíve have had Players, Refs, and Vendors ................ who else is going to blame the NFL for not giving more money away? Who else is going to hold out, strike or threaten the NFL? Who else believes the NFL has to give more?

Bottom line, just like the rest of us always had to doÖ.. if you donít like the pay, go ****ing work somewhere else.

So thereís my rant. Iím sick of these union leaches doing this shit. UAW just got more money, Seattle garbage just got more money, teamsters just got more money ÖÖÖÖ.. Holnam Chemical here in Lower Alabama unionized 14 months ago like a bunch of morons. It is with my great pleasure to say the company is shutting the doors here in Alabama. We may lose a client if he doesnít find work but way to go morons. Striking for more money while unemployment is so high is reprehensible. And I hope they ALL lose their jobs for it.




http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/25/sp...ute/index.html



The money to pay officials comes from a pot of $18 million funded by the league. The NFL wants an increase in the average salary for officials, who are part-time employees, from $149,000 to $189,000 by 2018. Referees (the head officials) and officials who qualify for postseason games would make more, the league said. The raises each year would fall between 5% and 11%, the league said. The officials have asked for more, but have not publicly disclosed how much. They say the league, which has revenues of more than $9 billion per year, can afford it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:41 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by PQ View Post
Jobs that ANYONE can be trained to do.
And yet the ones who are trained to do it were called in to replace the locked out refs and they seem to be screwing it up pretty well.

Edit : Actually, the ones that the NFL got are just beneath the top tier college guys. The NFL didn't want to bring in the top line college refs and make them scabs or bring them away from their already appointed NCAA football games. So the ones that were brought in are a collection of low tier college and high school referees and a few discarded from the Lingerie League.

Quote:
Funny how everyone conveniently forgot how shitty the regular refs were anyway.
I've wondered that too. Everyone always complained about bad officiating before, so what's the difference other than a few more blown calls.

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Over 100k for 4 months a year.
A bit more than that from what I'm reading. However what I'm seeing is that the NFL has a pot of about $18 million that pays the refs for the entire season (preseason, regular season and post season). The NFL wants to give the refs raises of between 5%-11% each year between now and 2018. However the refs are just wanting to double the pot to $32 million ($1 million per team). The NFL is also wanting to add more referee teams. So more refs would need a bigger pot anyways.

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Did they go to school for 8 years and do 2 years of internship to be a ref?
No, but you don't start out at the NFL level. You generally work up from high school/jr college to the BCS stage then goto the NFL. At least I'd assume you would.

Quote:
Economy as bad as it is right now and these ****ers are complaining that the 150k in salary to ref for 16 weekends a year and practice full time is not enough.
Don't forget the 4 game preseason plus however long in the post season, also the off weekend (17 week regular season). Plus there's a mini camp for referees before the season to update any rule changes.

Also throw in the fact that most of the time, the referees have to travel to various cities and to work games. As far as I can find out, the refs are responsible for the travel/accommodations while on the road. Plus they don't choose the games, the NFL chooses the games for them.

Quote:
I’m thinking it doesn’t take rocket scientists to learn to be a Football ref. So there’s my rant. I’m sick of these union leaches doing this shit. UAW just got more money, Seattle garbage just got more money, teamsters just got more money ………….. Holnam Chemical here in Lower Alabama unionized 14 months ago like a bunch of morons. It is with my great pleasure to say the company is shutting the doors here in Alabama. We may lose a client if he doesn’t find work but way to go morons. Striking for more money while unemployment is so high is reprehensible. And I hope they ALL lose their jobs for it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:25 AM   #3
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fact of the matter, they are still the least paid officials of any professional sport.

They don't want to lose their pention and go with 401k, to leave it up to the stock market for their retirement.

They don't want to have to quit their regular jobs to get paid LESS than what they are getting paid now, to officiate. How does that make any sense for the refs? lol

That would be like me working my full time job, making 60k a year, have a part time job at Lowe's, making 20k a year, lowes telling me i should quit my full time job, and start working for them for 15k a year, oh, and the pention is now gone, you get 401k now.

If the owners want to keep the crap officials they have now, for the unforeseeable future, then by all means, go for it, but expect a lot more bad games to be called, and a lot bigger chance of injuries to happen. Not to mention all the fighting going on between coaches and refs, and players and refs. The whole moral of professional football will go to shit, imo.

the way i see it, if the owners are getting paid more, the players are getting paid more, the coaches are getting paid more, why not the refs? and as long as everyone is making more money, then why wouldn't they pay the refs more? I can understand if paying the refs more money would mean the owners would be making less, that wouldn't fly, but that's not what's happening.

edit: sure, 140+ thousands sounds like a shit load of money, especially for part time, but if you make that much part time, i'm sure your lifestyle will be pretty high, so your way of life would have to change drastically, to make less than that, and lose your full time job. i would think.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:44 AM   #4
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I think they're overpaid.... that's as far as my opinion on the matter goes.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:46 AM   #5
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They don't want to lose their pention and go with 401k, to leave it up to the stock market for their retirement.

Oh, you mean like the majority of the rest of the country??? Pensions are a thing of the past.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:17 AM   #6
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I agree with just about everything in PQ's post.

The only thing I would say is that I bet most officials would rather be out on the field officiating instead of sitting on their hands on strike while watching the games on TV.

But because they're in a union, they can't go against their union boss otherwise they get kicked to the curb. This is the primary reason I despise unions as a whole. They're counter-productive and they only hurt whatever they touch.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastertypodemon View Post
No, but you don't start out at the NFL level. You generally work up from high school/jr college to the BCS stage then goto the NFL. At least I'd assume you would.
Agree pretty much with the rest of your post cept this one.

All the while they are working their way up, they are getting paid. NOT paying as my med school reference implied.
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fact of the matter, they are still the least paid officials of any professional sport. They are free to find another second job.

They don't want to lose their pention and go with 401k, to leave it up to the stock market for their retirement. They are free to find another second job.

They don't want to have to quit their regular jobs to get paid LESS than what they are getting paid now, to officiate. How does that make any sense for the refs? lol They are free to find another second job.

That would be like me working my full time job, making 60k a year, have a part time job at Lowe's, making 20k a year, lowes telling me i should quit my full time job, and start working for them for 15k a year, oh, and the pention is now gone, you get 401k now. They are free to find another second job.

If the owners want to keep the crap officials they have now, for the unforeseeable future, then by all means, go for it, but expect a lot more bad games to be called, and a lot bigger chance of injuries to happen. Not to mention all the fighting going on between coaches and refs, and players and refs. The whole moral of professional football will go to shit, imo. And that's my point. It's THEIR business. They should be perfectly free to do so. If the product suffers, THEN they will have to pay more. But to artificially inflate the pay is bad business.

the way i see it, if the owners are getting paid more, the players are getting paid more, the coaches are getting paid more, why not the refs? and as long as everyone is making more money, then why wouldn't they pay the refs more? I can understand if paying the refs more money would mean the owners would be making less, that wouldn't fly, but that's not what's happening. Because the higher you make your bills, the harder it will be to survive when times get hard. Good business decisions are what got them where they are. It's just like earning more money in your profession. If you change your lifestyle and get into the type of debt that you can afford with the higher pay and then you get laid off or have to go back to low pay then you're screwed. Same thing here.

edit: sure, 140+ thousands sounds like a shit load of money, especially for part time, but if you make that much part time, i'm sure your lifestyle will be pretty high, so your way of life would have to change drastically, to make less than that, and lose your full time job. i would think.
That's their problem.

Hell, I could make the case that these greedy officials are taking a job away from someone who needs it and is unemployed.

(of course I don't think that way)






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Old 09-26-2012, 04:56 PM   #8
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When and how much of a raise, bonus or salary do you make in the last 3 years.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:05 PM   #9
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When and how much of a raise, bonus or salary do you make in the last 3 years.
Personally I haven't been able to give us a raise at all in 5 years. Have thought about cutting salary back a few grand to help with business flow.

But, me and Bonnie are the only ones that we can cut so it wouldn't be too bad.

I don't suppose the players and refs would take pay cuts if the profits dropped.

Of course not.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:01 PM   #10
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Agree pretty much with the rest of your post cept this one.

All the while they are working their way up, they are getting paid. NOT paying as my med school reference implied.
That's their problem.

Hell, I could make the case that these greedy officials are taking a job away from someone who needs it and is unemployed.

(of course I don't think that way)







umm....the product is suffering. lol
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:20 PM   #11
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umm....the product is suffering. lol
Time will tell.

Again, the refs have been the biggest problem for years. The game will only suffer if it becomes an ongoing problem. Which it wouldn't. These refs would get better.

Viewership in not down at all. In fact, scoring and viewership is up. By the time the product suffers the new refs would be much better and would only get better from there.

But, if it didn't then you'd have a point. And the NFL would have to make a decision.

But looks like they already have. Not sure the deal but from what I understand it's pretty much done.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:20 PM   #12
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:21 PM   #13
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:37 PM   #14
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As to the comment of being the lowest paid professional officials... Baseball officials can work upwards of 160 regular season games a year, some of these being double headers...

Basketball officials can work upwards of 70 regular season games a year...

Football officials work 16 regular season games a year if they work every week...

TV ratings are probably up right now due to people wanting to see the next bone head call....

As for the officials and the bad rap they are getting right now.... Don't think for a minute some of the problem is with the players and coaches themselves... There is an inordinate amount of tester one at any major football event and these guys calling the game are not used to it on this level... The tester one laden athletes and coaches are quick to take advantage of it... In any form or fashion they can... Intimidation, and or outright cheap play...

There was a football team that held spring training at a University very close to my home, and if would sicker you to hear of some of the atrocious acts these "professional" athletes committed...

In baseball, officials have the ability to toss players when they act like some of the current "professional" football players are acting.. I wish football officials used the same mentality... Toss then
M and make them sit a game in addition to the one they were tossed from... And the same applies to coaches.... If an official is touched or if a coach drops an "f" bomb or cussed the officials, then they are sent packing as well...

These officials are trying to assist and allow the season to continue... the current debacle needs to be blamed on the source... The players and officials and coaches in the trenches....

The plates fans and coaches are not perfect... Why should them officials have too be... How about we do away with them altogether and have dozens of cameras set up all over too capture every possible angle and then review every single play...

In baseball, a player can be paid millions of dollars a year to hit a ball... And a player can be paid millions to prevent the ball being hit... Neither of them are close to perfect.. Yet hitting the ball three time out of ten nets you millions.. An ERA of seven or eight earns you the same millions...

I'm rambling now but the point is.... Quit griping about the replacement officials and look at where the problem lies...
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:18 PM   #15
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i think it's only natural that people gripe about the replacement refs. they suck. lol i don't think anyone is blaming them for sucking, just that something needs to be done.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:37 PM   #16
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OH, it's definitely worse. And definitely not their fault.

I believe, given the chance, they'd get better. Let's not forget that the reason the NFL wants to make full time refs is BECAUSE the officiating was so bad in the first place. Not like the replacements but over the past decade, the single most knock on the NFL has been the poor officiating.

I the NFL is happy with the deal then I"m happy.

But just you wait. The refs will threaten a strike before too long.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:13 PM   #17
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IT'S DONE! Refs are back
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:59 PM   #18
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:21 AM   #19
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This belongs here too...

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Old 09-27-2012, 06:21 AM   #20
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It looks like the "REAL" Refs are Baaaaaaack!!!!!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-rea...6869--nfl.html
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:52 AM   #21
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I hope they have been doing wind sprints to stay in shape....first bad call, coach Belichick may run them down!!!
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:01 AM   #22
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I can't wait to see the headlines about whatever blown call occurs this weekend under these so-called "professional" referees...
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:20 AM   #23
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I can't wait to see the headlines about whatever blown call occurs this weekend under these so-called "professional" referees...
Exactly! As a Seahawk, I'm well aware of how they NEVER make bad calls.

Watch it be another Russell/Tate pass or something. Tate's been a focus of ire for two weeks in a row now
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:11 AM   #24
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Well it's over now. The NFL most caved.

Expect to be yelling at blind regular referees this weekend.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:56 AM   #25
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It was nice to see the real refs back in action. Notice there wasn't a single skirmish? Game wasn't as long, and the refs really commanded the game and kept things in check.

Here's my favorite picture from the replacement refs "era" and it's now my avatar for a bit...
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