Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
JUICEDMOTORSPORTS
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Cosmetic Maintenance: Washing, Waxing, Detailing, Bodywork, Protection

Cosmetic Maintenance: Washing, Waxing, Detailing, Bodywork, Protection Anything related to keeping your Camaro clean and in good cosmetic condition.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-07-2012, 09:32 PM   #1
IPT

 
Drives: '02 Trailblazer, '12 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AK
Posts: 780
Clay then polish?

I was reading the detailing instructions and it recommends to clay and then polish. Seems counter intuitive. If a polish is used to get out superficial imperfections it must be going deep. Why the need for claying first? Seems like polishing would do the same if not better and deeper. What am I missing?

While on that topic, I am interested in getting a machine like the Flex or PC one. I'm a relative newbie with this. Can some one point me in the right direction for info about what pads to use and compounds?

My final coat will be Menzerna Power Lock Sealant as it was recommended to me in the past and I like it. Leaves the car super slick and is easy to put on and take off. Not sure if this can be put on/off with a buffer or not, will need to look into that (and what pads to use).
IPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 09:39 PM   #2
Indy Bumble Bee
 
Indy Bumble Bee's Avatar
 
Drives: Beest
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Indy
Posts: 665
You clay to get all the "crap" off of your paint before you wax the car. You will be amazed how much junk you get on the clay and will be thankful you clayed before you waxed.

I suggest you go to adamspolishes.com and watch their videos on their detailing process. Whether you buy from them or not, you will learn a lot about the process. I washed,clay barred, and then waxed my car two weeks ago and my paint feels like silk. It is so addicting
Indy Bumble Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 09:53 PM   #3
chappy48

 
chappy48's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro Auto 2SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Belfair, WA
Posts: 876
If your paint has surface contaminates on it, you only end up doing more damage to your paint by skipping the claying step and going straight to polishing. Imagine a polisher spreading all of those contaminates around, adding additional scratches and swirls. This is why we clay. Get rid of anything on the surface of the paint that could cause damage.
__________________
Built by Jannetty Racing
670rwhp/649rwtq...Scariness to be determined.
Jannety Racing forged 416.
TVS2300 Supercharger w/Maggie Max Stage 2, 3.6 Pulley, Innovators West 8 rib conversion, OD rear Cog belt drive.
Jannetty Racing Rough Idle Cam, LS3 Conversion.
Jannetty Racing built 6l80e Trans, Jannetty Racing Custom Converter, Built rear diff w/ 3.45 gears, DSS driveshaft and 1400 hp axles.
ADM Twin Pump Fuel System, ADM CAI, Dynatech 1 7/8" Coated Headers, Borla "S" Catback.
Custom 18" Forgestar F14's, Nitto 305/45-18 DR's
chappy48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 09:55 PM   #4
CamaroDreams07
Black Belt Shinemaster
 
CamaroDreams07's Avatar
 
Drives: Shinier than yours
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Lansing, MI
Posts: 9,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by chappy48 View Post
If your paint has surface contaminates on it, you only end up doing more damage to your paint by skipping the claying step and going straight to polishing. Imagine a polisher spreading all of those contaminates around, adding additional scratches and swirls. This is why we clay. Get rid of anything on the surface of the paint that could cause damage.
Not to mention ruin your pads.

Definitely agree with everything posted above. Detailing isn't something where cutting corners does you any good.
__________________
Find my reviews helpful? Consider making a donation to the supply/beer fund
CamaroDreams07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 09:59 PM   #5
chappy48

 
chappy48's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro Auto 2SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Belfair, WA
Posts: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroDreams07 View Post
Not to mention ruin your pads.

Definitely agree with everything posted above. Detailing isn't something where cutting corners does you any good.
__________________
Built by Jannetty Racing
670rwhp/649rwtq...Scariness to be determined.
Jannety Racing forged 416.
TVS2300 Supercharger w/Maggie Max Stage 2, 3.6 Pulley, Innovators West 8 rib conversion, OD rear Cog belt drive.
Jannetty Racing Rough Idle Cam, LS3 Conversion.
Jannetty Racing built 6l80e Trans, Jannetty Racing Custom Converter, Built rear diff w/ 3.45 gears, DSS driveshaft and 1400 hp axles.
ADM Twin Pump Fuel System, ADM CAI, Dynatech 1 7/8" Coated Headers, Borla "S" Catback.
Custom 18" Forgestar F14's, Nitto 305/45-18 DR's
chappy48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 12:32 AM   #6
IPT

 
Drives: '02 Trailblazer, '12 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AK
Posts: 780
Makes sense, thanks. I guess I was thinking of polishing just as removal. The thought that you don't want to gunk up the polishing pads, or just spread the contaminants around makes sense.
IPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 08:35 AM   #7
Todd@Autopia
 
Todd@Autopia's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Mazdaspeed 3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando/Stuart, FL
Posts: 1,161
DetailingClay (vs. hobby clay or Play-Doo) is indeed abrasive. In fact, Detailing Clay comes in various grades of abrasiveness. Similar to how sandpaper comes in different grits, or buffing liquids come in compounds, swirl removers, and final polishes. Aggressive clay is most commonly used in body shops or in situations when the paint is going to be polished. This is because aggressive clay has a high tendency to leave marring (lightly surface scratch the paint). When used on very soft paint, aggressive clay can be so aggressive that you can dull the tops of the orange peel texture, just like sanding.

Because something is abrasive does not mean it will do the same intended job. It is near impossible to remove orange peel texture from cured paint by machine polishing but it is (relatively) easy to do with wet sanding, even though both would be considered abrasive. Why? Because when you sand (to remove orange peel) you are using a fairly hard backing sponge that will force the paint to contour the shape of the backing block. The abrasives are focused (with much greater pressure) over any uneven areas (high spots) which levels these areas much faster, until the surface becomes level. When polishing you are applying the abrasives with a much softer backing, that will flow to some degree over the paint. The abrasives are worked evenly over the ebbs and flows and contours to the surface, removing material far more evenly.

What does this have to do with contamination? Remember that the clear coat on your paint is about a sheet of paper thick (very thin) yet it can be polished many times before thinning it out. Contamination (particularly the type that you can feel with your finger tip) can be quite thick (relative to the paint's thickness and the polishes ability to remove that material). So when you are polishing contaminated paint you are abrading the contamination, likely at a slightly greater rate then the surrounding clear coat. If the contamination is .5 mils thick (and made of mostly iron oxide) it could require multiple passes to fully remove the abrasion.

A clay bar (which is far less abrasive as a whole then compounding the paint), because it is firm, will focus almost all of its cutting action on the contamination itself (the rest of the bar hydroplanes across the paint surface). If the clay was super soft like a sponge, it simply would not work.

So (in general, there are always exceptions to the rule) the following abrasives are do the following jobs best.

Sand paper- designed to level paint flat when used with a sanding block.

Clay- designed to level random 'bumps' of contamination.

Machine polishing- tends to level material evenly (removes a much more equal amount of material from surfaces of slightly different heights).

As noted above, you CAN remove contamination from polishing (this was common practice before clay proved to be more efficient and less invasive.) To remove the contamination you are going to have to use a stiffer polishing surface that focuses the majority of its energy on the contamination itself.

This is usually done by using a wool pad at high RPM. The high RPM pulls the fibers taut and creates a much stiffer polishing surface. (Think of spinning a rock tied to a string above your head. If you swing it slowly, the string will have slack. If you really whip it around the string will become very very taut).


CLIFF NOTES: Clay works well at removing contamination (bumps that stick above the paint) because it focuses all of its work on the contamination (if floats across the relatively smooth paint surface and eats at the bumps).

Polishing works to remove material evenly from most surfaces because the polishing pads ability to contour to the body panel and bumps. Some contamination is as thick as the clear coat and quite attached. It could require a lot of polishing to reduce it.
Todd@Autopia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 08:46 AM   #8
Indy Bumble Bee
 
Indy Bumble Bee's Avatar
 
Drives: Beest
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Indy
Posts: 665
^ well said and you learn something new everyday!
Indy Bumble Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #9
Todd@Autopia
 
Todd@Autopia's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Mazdaspeed 3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando/Stuart, FL
Posts: 1,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy Bumble Bee View Post
^ well said and you learn something new everyday!
Thanks
Todd@Autopia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 08:33 PM   #10
IPT

 
Drives: '02 Trailblazer, '12 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AK
Posts: 780
Thanks Todd - very informative.

So on a new car you would clay, then polish, then seal. I'm guessing a mid level abrasion polish/pad would be all that was required, or maybe even a fine one?
IPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 06:54 AM   #11
Todd@Autopia
 
Todd@Autopia's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Mazdaspeed 3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando/Stuart, FL
Posts: 1,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPT View Post
Thanks Todd - very informative.

So on a new car you would clay, then polish, then seal. I'm guessing a mid level abrasion polish/pad would be all that was required, or maybe even a fine one?
It really depends on the car (some are fairly trashed by dealerships washing them with brooms!) but in general, yes, a mild/medium grade polish is all that is needed to make a brand new car look brand new.

The rest of your process seems spot on!
Todd@Autopia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 03:09 PM   #12
chalkupanother1
 
chalkupanother1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 1LT RS
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 134
I'm getting out of my part time detailing biz...getting rid of my extra clay sets. Clay Magic mild with lube. Kits still shrink wrapped. $20 shipped. PM if interested.

With my cars, I've really become addicted to claying. I do them about once every other month. I know, overkill, but I love the way the paint feels afterwards. Makes washing easier too.
__________________
chalkupanother1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 09:34 PM   #13
fastfreddie

 
fastfreddie's Avatar
 
Drives: 10' 2SS/RS (His), 10' 1LT (Hers)
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Normal, Illinois
Posts: 768
I'm wondering, does clay bar take off paint overspray? I have a car with a bit of overspray on it, not the Camaro though.
fastfreddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2012, 10:39 PM   #14
CamaroDreams07
Black Belt Shinemaster
 
CamaroDreams07's Avatar
 
Drives: Shinier than yours
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Lansing, MI
Posts: 9,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfreddie View Post
I'm wondering, does clay bar take off paint overspray? I have a car with a bit of overspray on it, not the Camaro though.
Yes.

*In life, there are no nandroids*
__________________
Find my reviews helpful? Consider making a donation to the supply/beer fund
CamaroDreams07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 03:30 PM   #15
Kiss My SS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 1SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPT View Post
I was reading the detailing instructions and it recommends to clay and then polish. Seems counter intuitive. If a polish is used to get out superficial imperfections it must be going deep. Why the need for claying first? Seems like polishing would do the same if not better and deeper. What am I missing?

While on that topic, I am interested in getting a machine like the Flex or PC one. I'm a relative newbie with this. Can some one point me in the right direction for info about what pads to use and compounds?

My final coat will be Menzerna Power Lock Sealant as it was recommended to me in the past and I like it. Leaves the car super slick and is easy to put on and take off. Not sure if this can be put on/off with a buffer or not, will need to look into that (and what pads to use).
I guess I do it backwards but get the same results. I always clay my car 1st and then wash it and then polish....
Kiss My SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 04:10 PM   #16
ihaveacamaro
I like teeth.
 
ihaveacamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: #198
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 4,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiss My SS View Post
I guess I do it backwards but get the same results. I always clay my car 1st and then wash it and then polish....
You must have some seriously dirty clay by the end of that
__________________
Please check out my youtube detailing channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/roshan517

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you will be successful."
ihaveacamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 04:13 PM   #17
Kiss My SS
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro 1SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Naples, Florida
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihaveacamaro View Post
You must have some seriously dirty clay by the end of that
...I screwed up...I wash it, then clay it and wash it again....Sorry!!
Kiss My SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 04:15 PM   #18
ihaveacamaro
I like teeth.
 
ihaveacamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: #198
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 4,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiss My SS View Post
...I screwed up...I wash it, then clay it and wash it again....Sorry!!
You know, that little detail make a world of difference
__________________
Please check out my youtube detailing channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/roshan517

"When you want to succeed as bad as you want to breathe, then you will be successful."
ihaveacamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 06:45 PM   #19
IPT

 
Drives: '02 Trailblazer, '12 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AK
Posts: 780
is it required to wash it after claying before polishing?
IPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 06:52 PM   #20
CamaroDreams07
Black Belt Shinemaster
 
CamaroDreams07's Avatar
 
Drives: Shinier than yours
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Lansing, MI
Posts: 9,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPT View Post
is it required to wash it after claying before polishing?
My opinion, absolutely not. Those who are part of Junkman's flock will fight me to the death on this though.

*In life, there are no nandroids*
__________________
Find my reviews helpful? Consider making a donation to the supply/beer fund
CamaroDreams07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 07:13 PM   #21
IPT

 
Drives: '02 Trailblazer, '12 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AK
Posts: 780
I would think if you were using something like ONR for lube, and the clay removed all the gunk as it is intended too, it would not need to be washed. Just wanted to see what others with more experience had to say, thanks.
IPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:52 PM   #22
ChadG

 
ChadG's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black Camaro LS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiss My SS View Post
...I screwed up...I wash it, then clay it and wash it again....Sorry!!
I do the same just because I'm anal retentive, but like CD07 says I wouldn't consider it mandatory. For me it's just good practice and gives me the warm fuzzy.
ChadG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 10:58 AM   #23
Todd@Autopia
 
Todd@Autopia's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Mazdaspeed 3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Orlando/Stuart, FL
Posts: 1,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPT View Post
is it required to wash it after claying before polishing?
No. I very rarely wash a car after claying (prior to polishing). If you use a lubricant like Meguiar's M34, which leaving nothing behind on the surface, I'm not sure why you would want to wash it anyways. There is no right or wrong answer here but it seems like extra work to me.
Todd@Autopia is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.