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Old 01-13-2008, 04:36 PM   #1
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Cool The Fast and the Furious Criticisms

While watching Tokyo Drift, I had a thought about these movies. While they feature some unbelievable driving talent and some ridiculously fast cars, there are several things that are very wrong with these movies.

The first thing I noticed are the gang-related plotlines. There is always a mob or crime syndicate involved in the films, menacing society with their gorgeous cars and criminal drivers. If I were in a mob, I would probably not want to drive a brightly painted vehicle that I show off to the world. Wouldn't such a ride lead to unwanted attention from competing gangs and law enforcement? I am willing to accept that local law enforcement might be corrupt or lax, but nationally, someone would either try to take down the group or assassinate top members. If I were in a competing gang, seeing an enemy member in a tricked out whip would make the job of finding the enemy way too easy. I would beg for that opportunity. Thus, gangsters driving tricked out rides could not represent a feasible situation.

Additionally, the drivers of these cars treat them like beaters, using them to mash other drivers off the road or into obstacles. If I were driving a 350Z with an expensive custom paint job and hours upon hours of motor work, I would not dare slam my vehicle into someone else's car. I would cry if my beautiful monster mobile got beat up like that.

Moreover, they put an import motor in a classic Mustang! What's wrong with these people? Fitment and calibration issues aside, I can understand the symbolism of including both styles in the car that wins the final race on that drifting mountain, but they could afford all the aftermarket work to their other cars, so why did the supporting characters refuse to cough up a few thousand yen to modify or repair an existing import or, alternatively, to restore the Mustang to its former glory and modify the Mustang as a powerful muscle car instead of a crossbreed of middleweight V6 import and heavyweight V8 styling? I have no doubts that such a restoration would cost far less in both time and effort than the crossbreed they produced. If you do not agree, then at least you can concede that finding an existing car and upgrading it would have been even more feasible as the car would already have all of its parts, a basis on which the Mustang did not rely. The last argument I have for the Mustang is why it was the symbolic car for the American military father, as well as the symbol of crossbred tuning. For a crossbred car to win, it must be the best of everything. It should have the best suspension with the best steering and the most appropriate tires for the course. If you have to swap the motor, pick the most powerful, easily tunable motor available. I have no reason to believe that the Mustang is symbolically the best car because it is not the best car. A Corvette would have made more sense as it has traditionally had a huge calling, like the Mustang, and is considered by many as a dream car. The Mustang is too attainable, and, therefore, not impressive enough to symbolize American cars. Tokyo Drift was intended to bring together the American and Japanese styles, but they chose an inappropriate car to make that happen. The Mustang is a direct competitor of the Camaro, GTO, Charger, Firebird, and Challenger in many categories, including power, comfort, and style. To choose the Mustang is to create conflict between those American car supporters. A Corvette or Viper is more unifying as they are a higher tier of car than the Mustang, and everyone can agree that they are exemplary automobiles. The classic Corvette would be the best choice since the classic Stingray is considered one of the most desirable American cars for collectors and car enthusiasts. Ultimately, the Mustang crossbreed in the third film does not make sense.

Lastly, a big race does not resolve conflicts. If I went to a top Yakuza gangbanger and demanded to race him to decide who runs this bitch, he would shoot me on the spot. There is no reason to abide by the rules of an arbitrary race since the mobsters in these films do not obey laws of any kind. While the idea of racing for a purpose greater than victory is inspiring an philosophical, racing is ultimately a battle of minds, decided by who has the best knowledge of their car and applying that knowledge by making it faster and better looking. The Fast and the Furious series takes racing as a form of resolving conflict, but the truth is that racing usually ignites conflict and excuses for loss. While that may not affect us Camaro winners, losers and winners alike make evident to us the fact that no one car is supreme. With the right resources and research, any car can be made a monster—not just the wild creations of film producers on a quest to jump start the young automotive aftermarket industry.

I just wanted to get some consensus. I used to belong to a Cobalt site where this type of stuff was viewed as God-like. Never have I agreed, but I just wanted to see what you guys thought of the crazy stuff they pull in these films.

Last edited by The_Blur; 01-13-2008 at 07:48 PM. Reason: exclamation point!
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Old 01-13-2008, 05:55 PM   #2
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If you close your eyes, and listen to all the screeching tires (not poor revved to hell motors), that's all I ever really liked about those movies...I mean, all car loyalties, and import crap aside - I just never liked the plotline, the jumps (yeah, right) and a number of other things.

So I just close my eyes when they burn out, and imagine my own Camaro doing that in a few years...
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:07 PM   #3
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i agree with most of that but when it all comes down to it, those movies are just really entertaining. Its hard to find other movies that are centered around cars like they are.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:25 PM   #4
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Yeah...they're just for fun, Blur...try not to take them so seriously.
lol

I mean, you gotta know the target audience for these movies (no offense to you older cats that watch em) is the adolescent and teen crowd that don't have a car yet, but dream at night of having a uber-drift car with giant Japanese Pokemons on the side and have Initial D posters all over their rooms.

I think maybe the symbolism of the 65 Mustang with the RB26 Skyline Engine was intended in an off-color way to appeal to the import kids that hate on domestics as a bastardization of something american, by putting a very popular Japanese engine in it....of course I could be wrong.

In any case...I would stay and talk more about the subject, but unfortunately I have to go resolve my own conflict with some Japanese gangbangers and run a drift/slalom to-the-death, down a big mountain to regain the respect of my Asian lady-friend and her Yakuza father.


See ya later!
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:29 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceRocket View Post
In any case...I would stay and talk more about the subject, but unfortunately I have to go resolve my own conflict with some Japanese gangbangers and run a drift/slalom to-the-death, down a big mountain to regain the respect of my Asian lady-friend and her Yakuza father.


See ya later!
Good luck with that! If you need a faster car just let me know. I have some pushrod v-8s that might be up to the task. lol.
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceRocket View Post
Yeah...they're just for fun, Blur...try not to take them so seriously.
lol

I mean, you gotta know the target audience for these movies (no offense to you older cats that watch em) is the adolescent and teen crowd that don't have a car yet, but dream at night of having a uber-drift car with giant Japanese Pokemons on the side and have Initial D posters all over their rooms.

I think maybe the symbolism of the 65 Mustang with the RB26 Skyline Engine was intended in an off-color way to appeal to the import kids that hate on domestics as a bastardization of something american, by putting a very popular Japanese engine in it....of course I could be wrong.

In any case...I would stay and talk more about the subject, but unfortunately I have to go resolve my own conflict with some Japanese gangbangers and run a drift/slalom to-the-death, down a big mountain to regain the respect of my Asian lady-friend and her Yakuza father.


See ya later!
Honestly, I was just bored so I thought I'd post something insightful. You take that super Supra to those Japanese gangbangers—good luck!
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:34 PM   #7
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Good luck with that! If you need a faster car just let me know. I have some pushrod v-8s that might be up to the task. lol.
Tsk! Tsk!

Surely you jest!
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:41 PM   #8
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they put an import motor in a classic Mustang!.
what the hell? a "2JZ swap yo!", just guessing, never saw the movies
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Old 01-13-2008, 08:43 PM   #9
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Lastly, a big race does not resolve conflicts. If I went to a top Yakuza gangbanger and demanded to race him to decide who runs this bitch, he would shoot me on the spot. There is no reason to abide by the rules of an arbitrary race since the mobsters in these films do not obey laws of any kind. While the idea of racing for a purpose greater than victory is inspiring an philosophical, racing is ultimately a battle of minds, decided by who has the best knowledge of their car and applying that knowledge by making it faster and better looking. The Fast and the Furious series takes racing as a form of resolving conflict, but the truth is that racing usually ignites conflict and excuses for loss. While that may not affect us Camaro winners, losers and winners alike make evident to us the fact that no one car is supreme. With the right resources and research, any car can be made a monster—not just the wild creations of film producers on a quest to jump start the young automotive aftermarket industry.

I just wanted to get some consensus. I used to belong to a Cobalt site where this type of stuff was viewed as God-like. Never have I agreed, but I just wanted to see what you guys thought of the crazy stuff they pull in these films.[/QUOTE]


I go along with all the other responses, but I think I can guess where the director/producers are getting these ideas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
The first thing I noticed are the gang-related plotlines. There is always a mob or crime syndicate involved in the films, menacing society with their gorgeous cars and criminal drivers. If I were in a mob, I would probably not want to drive a brightly painted vehicle that I show off to the world. Wouldn't such a ride lead to unwanted attention from competing gangs and law enforcement?
Typically, this is what people who are respected/noticed do. This happens alot with some very well-known italians in my area. They will go to church and leave their AMG Merc unlocked with the top down and keys on the seat. No one dares touch it because they know who it belongs to. I think the Yakuza are similar to the mafia types as in everyone knows/respects/fears them so they don't mess with any property of it.

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Additionally, the drivers of these cars treat them like beaters, using them to mash other drivers off the road or into obstacles. If I were driving a 350Z with an expensive custom paint job and hours upon hours of motor work, I would not dare slam my vehicle into someone else's car. I would cry if my beautiful monster mobile got beat up like that.
If you could afford a 350z with that custom vinyl sticker job and all the engine work, couldn't you afford to buy another one? In the movie they would gamble with their car collections (Skyline vs. Hachi Roku for wagers). I'm sure he'd rather win the race and save face while just tossing it aside and buying a new one if it's wrecked, or tricking out the new car he won for finishing first.

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Moreover, they put an import motor in a classic Mustang!...The Mustang is a direct competitor of the Camaro, GTO, Charger, Firebird, and Challenger in many categories, including power, comfort, and style. To choose the Mustang is to create conflict between those American car supporters. A Corvette or Viper is more unifying as they are a higher tier of car than the Mustang, and everyone can agree that they are exemplary automobiles.
[b]The dad moved to Japan with very little money. Do you think he'd have an old 60's corvette which would have come out when he was 16-20 ish. Do you think he would have been able to buy a Corvette brand new? Mustang is/was a pony car. It was built to be a performance car that most people could afford. The First gen mustangs are hard to find in good condition. A lot of people kept their mustangs garaged after not using it, or picked up a beater to keep as a project car in their garage to bring back the nostalgia. I can easily see why the dad would keep it and work on it from time to time.

As for the engine, the Skyline is considered one of the fastest cars in the world among imports and some have been tuned to reach speeds in excess of 200 mph. The RB26 (Skyline) and the 2JZ-GTE (Supra) are some of the best tuning engines in the world for imports. If they already had the chassis from the Americas, and needed a japanese engine, Why not choose the best from the selection?

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There is no reason to abide by the rules of an arbitrary race since the mobsters in these films do not obey laws of any kind.
The Uncle was an overlord of the area, yet he seemed to be dignified and had a great sense of honor. Japanese Bushido dating back to the fuedal era was based around honor. You would not shame your family or you'd be outcast. This aspect has stayed alive through the times and though not always apparant, even some of the nastiest/most sinister villians show some aspect of it. The uncle was probably sick and tired of his snotty kid and wanted to teach him a lesson. Also he probably didn't want to pay for any more of her lifestyle.

Either way, I agree that the movie is very unrealistic. I watch them for the decent car stunts, the nice looking cars (even if facts are mixed up/wrong/crossed), and the nostalgia of actually going to the underground car shows/races. Now that I've been back in the bay, I can't make it to the AZ Deer Valley races anymore. The ones in Chandler were almost as big as the gatherings in the movies though.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:47 PM   #10
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Criticisms of Your Criticisms of My Criticisms of The Fast and the Furious

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindz View Post
I go along with all the other responses, but I think I can guess where the director/producers are getting these ideas.

Typically, this is what people who are respected/noticed do. This happens alot with some very well-known italians in my area. They will go to church and leave their AMG Merc unlocked with the top down and keys on the seat. No one dares touch it because they know who it belongs to. I think the Yakuza are similar to the mafia types as in everyone knows/respects/fears them so they don't mess with any property of it.

If you could afford a 350z with that custom vinyl sticker job and all the engine work, couldn't you afford to buy another one? In the movie they would gamble with their car collections (Skyline vs. Hachi Roku for wagers). I'm sure he'd rather win the race and save face while just tossing it aside and buying a new one if it's wrecked, or tricking out the new car he won for finishing first.

[b]The dad moved to Japan with very little money. Do you think he'd have an old 60's corvette which would have come out when he was 16-20 ish. Do you think he would have been able to buy a Corvette brand new? Mustang is/was a pony car. It was built to be a performance car that most people could afford. The First gen mustangs are hard to find in good condition. A lot of people kept their mustangs garaged after not using it, or picked up a beater to keep as a project car in their garage to bring back the nostalgia. I can easily see why the dad would keep it and work on it from time to time.

As for the engine, the Skyline is considered one of the fastest cars in the world among imports and some have been tuned to reach speeds in excess of 200 mph. The RB26 (Skyline) and the 2JZ-GTE (Supra) are some of the best tuning engines in the world for imports. If they already had the chassis from the Americas, and needed a japanese engine, Why not choose the best from the selection?

The Uncle was an overlord of the area, yet he seemed to be dignified and had a great sense of honor. Japanese Bushido dating back to the fuedal era was based around honor. You would not shame your family or you'd be outcast. This aspect has stayed alive through the times and though not always apparant, even some of the nastiest/most sinister villians show some aspect of it. The uncle was probably sick and tired of his snotty kid and wanted to teach him a lesson. Also he probably didn't want to pay for any more of her lifestyle.
To start, I just want to say that many muscle car enthusiasts would probably not eagerly drop any import motor in their classic cars. I love Skylines and Supras, but I'm not such a big fan of dropping a Nissan or Toyota motor in a GM car. Would you do it? That's the real reason I said that comment about the Mustang with an import motor. Other than our beloved Supra driver, RiceRocket, almost all of us Americans here are domestic car drivers or hope to be Camaro drivers in the near future. If I were to do a motor swap, I'd find a compatible engine. It would be cheaper and more time efficient to tune. That means Fords get Ford motors because Ford motors are made for Fords. Imagine how long it would take to change all the brackets and mounts around for a motor that isn't meant for the car. Had they found the original motor, significantly upgraded it, and installed it, the car would need little adjustment and tuning as compared to rearranging the whole engine bay for a motor by a different company.

In addition, I wouldn't touch an Italian gangster's car either. I wouldn't touch a Russian, Japanese, Chinese, Mexican, or American mobster's car. I wouldn't even touch my neighbors' cars, and they're just average college students! I'm just suggesting that real gangsters don't have rides like these that they use to drift through the city. I bet they have Phantoms with chauffeurs who drive them from place to place to make business happen. The image of power and being untouchable is very important to gangsters, and having a big $100,000 expensive car makes more sense than having a $30,000 domestically produced average car. The 350Z is far from average, but it isn't exotic or really all that impressive when considering perceived status cars like Mercedes-Benzes, Bentleys, or Ferraris. The look of power is important to the mob, so driving a tinted BMW would be preferable to driving a 350Z with stickers all over it. The 350Z is attainable. The BMW looks rich, even if 1-series cars don't cost all that much. It's the look that's important.

Also, I won't argue about the Skyline motor because I agree with you. I will argue that the father found the Mustang as it was at the base, according to the film. The only reason I can cite that is because I literally just watched it. In that condition, he could have found any stripped car. All old classic car parts are rare, so the plot could have justified someone stripping it for their own projects or sales, but there is no explanation for him finding a Mustang. He doesn't even explain how much he paid for the remainder of it! It literally could have been any car, but they chose a Mustang, which is not of the same level of appreciation as a Skyline. Too many cars were in the same class as the Mustang in terms of power and potential to upgrade. The Skyline is above that. I completely agree with you about the Skyline and the Supra being among the best tuning cars ever for their motors, but I don't think that the classic Mustang ever had that level of tuning ability when it comes to the rest of the car. I think the right car would have been either a more tunable car for realistic functionality or a more symbolic car to math the high tier status of the Skyline motor that would go into it.

Finally, I understand that Bushido is based around respect, but we have to remember that he agreed to a competition, not a punishment. Wouldn't a race allow him to stay if he won, learning nothing in the process? Also, his relative took his side in the scene where the main character returns stolen funds. He expects a win. That doesn't suggest he should learn a lesson. Isn't walking into a Bushido underground bar equally disrespectful? I'm sure if someone really pulled that, they would get shot on site! The truth is that a deal might have been worked out at best, but a race endangering a relative and mob member's life would not be the most likely solution to the problem. Perhaps the race should have been more of a chase, like in the motorcycle chase in a previous F&F film.

I feel compelled to remind you that these arguments are mostly due to immense boredom. I have nothing better to do. If I did, I probably wouldn't be talking about The Fast and the Furious. Those of you that think I'm taking this way too seriously are mistaken.
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:52 PM   #11
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I'm responding to your discussion to keep myself from falling asleep at work. =/
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Old 01-13-2008, 10:57 PM   #12
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I'm responding to your discussion to keep myself from falling asleep at work. =/
I figured you had to be at least as bored as I am to bother writing something as long and as impressive as your response.
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:25 PM   #13
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Hey Rice, I love the wheels on that thing. I like the new sig pic.
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Old 01-13-2008, 11:34 PM   #14
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Hey Rice, I love the wheels on that thing. I like the new sig pic.
Thanks.

Those are my new 5zigens!
Theyre super dooper lightweight!

I am still trying to sell the Ruff Racing 278 wheels I took off a couple months go.
Any takers?
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:28 AM   #15
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^Love the sig too. And, Blur, sorry for the quick hijack on this, but...

Rocket, we have a for sale/wanted section now. Post up pix of your wheels in there if you want a shot at some takers.

Regarding the movie... I can understand why they chose the Mustang. That era was an increadible selling point for Ford...hundreds of thousands sold w/ factories running 24/7 to put them out. That is basically an icon of American history. I know..I know...the corvette is too. Yes, it could have also gone w/ a Corvette. I remember seeing them look at the wrecked whatever-it-was out the back of the shop and saying the motor was still good.

There's tons of ways it could have went when rebuilding the car. Heck, they could have borrowed someone elses ride in the movie and tossed the engine in it calling it a day. But, they spent countless hours putting together an old "musclecar" to have a domestic/import type battle. Of course, they had an import heart under the hood, but tried to tie it all together.

I agree on many points you made...crashing their cars, why not just shoot the other guy (I'm in a Mob...of course I'll get away w/ it), etc. It's all just for the movie. At least we saw an old face at the end in a nice MOPAR. I prefer his ride from Part 1, though.
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:38 AM   #16
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I agree on many points you made...crashing their cars, why not just shoot the other guy (I'm in a Mob...of course I'll get away w/ it), etc. It's all just for the movie. At least we saw an old face at the end in a nice MOPAR. I prefer his ride from Part 1, though.
Actually, he's driving a Buick—GM, baby!
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:23 AM   #17
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Actually, he's driving a Buick—GM, baby!
Dang, TAG..he gotcha there.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:57 AM   #18
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OOps. Well, it has been quite a long time since I've seen it. I could have sworn I remembered it as something else....oh well.
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:20 PM   #19
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the first movie had your (V)opar TAG, a good old 68' Dodge Charger (yes i know this is a camaro enthusiast site but i like all good muscle cars)
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