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Old 10-13-2012, 05:11 AM   #1
Junkman2008
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Junkman Discusses Sealant/Wax Applications - Including the Hype!

In this video, I go into a detailed discussion about sealants, the application of the sealant that I'm using and the hype associated with waxes and their claim to make your paint shine. Wax is a protectant. That is the only thing that I use wax for. I get all the shine that I'm going to get out of my paint from polishing it. In this video, I start with my paint perfectly polished and then I add the sealant. As you will see, there will be no difference with the before and after shots once I'm done. This proves my point. Polishing creates the shine in your paint and wax protects the shine you get from polishing.

Sit back and be amazed as everything you've heard about waxes gets debunked.






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Old 10-13-2012, 07:54 AM   #2
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As I said on AG, I used to agree with you Junkman, until I saw the opposite in front of my eyes.

I compounded and polished my camaro to perfection. Then I went and put opticoat on it.

I saw more metallic flakes in my Camaro's paint as I put the opticoat on. Say what you want, but I really could see the difference. That's enough to show me that some sealants and waxes definitely can help improve the shine... even on a 100% compounded and polished vehicle.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:03 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihaveacamaro View Post
As I said on AG, I used to agree with you Junkman, until I saw the opposite in front of my eyes.

I compounded and polished my camaro to perfection. Then I went and put opticoat on it.

I saw more metallic flakes in my Camaro's paint as I put the opticoat on. Say what you want, but I really could see the difference. That's enough to show me that some sealants and waxes definitely can help improve the shine... even on a 100% compounded and polished vehicle.
I see that you get up in the mornings and make the rounds through all the forums too.

As I said on AG, you should make a hi-def video like I did. I'd love to see your results.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihaveacamaro View Post
As I said on AG, I used to agree with you Junkman, until I saw the opposite in front of my eyes.

I compounded and polished my camaro to perfection. Then I went and put opticoat on it.

I saw more metallic flakes in my Camaro's paint as I put the opticoat on. Say what you want, but I really could see the difference. That's enough to show me that some sealants and waxes definitely can help improve the shine... even on a 100% compounded and polished vehicle.
You, and 1000s and 1000s of people would agree with you. You are not alone in your opinion.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:16 PM   #5
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Junkman, I really do enjoy your videos! You are a natural in front of the camera. I think you did a good job addressing some myths and breaking things down, your DI voice gave my nightmares of yellow footprints and a long bus ride, and I appreciate your delivery. I do believe that in your dispelling and explanations of certain myths you have contributed so more. I apologize in advance, because I did not watch the entire video, but rather skipped around due to time constraints, so if I am missing something that is why.

"Waxes do not add shine to perfectly polished paint because it is already level and has maximum shine"

I agree that level surfaces will reflect light more evenly. Also a waxed surface, if if the wax is working correctly, will level as it cures, so it does create a level surface that reflects light more evenly. (much like the water of the oceans makes the uneven ocean flood even at the surface).

However, you cannot really polish paint to perfection. Under a microscope there will be evidence of polishing as abrasives (which, in order to work, are harder than paint) are being rubbed across the surface.

Adding a wax on top of this surface, will by factor of making the surface more level and add gloss.

Also, the ingredients in a wax or sealant will act to bend light differently. This slight bending of light (think Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon prism) will alter the way light reflects, changing the shine.


"If you own a gloss meter... work for a wax manufacturer"

I have seen the results, working directly with wax manufacturer, on a gloss meter and have witnessed the increased shine.


"Waxes cannot be for specific paint colors"

I know some companies dye their wax with specific colors in order to aid the filling of paint defects and scratches.

However, because waxes and sealants bend light, some create a deeper reflection (depth of shine) where as others maybe create a brighter appearing shine. Many people prefer the look (of say Pinnacle Souveran) on a dark colored cars because of the way that wax bends light. Can it work on white? Of course, but increasing depth of shine on white may not create the high-gloss finish that many white owners want.


"Make an HD video"

Videos cannot capture the nuances of a wax or sealant. Video's capture objects in 2D and require us, using referenences, to translate the image into a 3D environment.

The best bet in this case would be to use your eyes, which in the real world, capture things in 3D, and will be much more likely to notice and appreciate the different types of shine that a wax or sealant can produce. On video, just like in pictures, perceptions are greatly limited. 1000s and 1000s of people use their own eyes and have reached a different conclusion than yours. There is no right or wrong answer.

I am very much of the opinion that we all see things differently (I cannot taste the difference in white wines and don't like most sea-food) and I know several extremely well respected detailers who cannot see much of a difference in wax. I know people who cannot see difference shades of orange. I have learned that just because I cannot see something doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means that I cannot see it.

Great video.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:26 PM   #6
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Very well stated Todd.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd@Autopia View Post
Junkman, I really do enjoy your videos! You are a natural in front of the camera. I think you did a good job addressing some myths and breaking things down, your DI voice gave my nightmares of yellow footprints and a long bus ride, and I appreciate your delivery. I do believe that in your dispelling and explanations of certain myths you have contributed so more. I apologize in advance, because I did not watch the entire video, but rather skipped around due to time constraints, so if I am missing something that is why.

"Waxes do not add shine to perfectly polished paint because it is already level and has maximum shine"

I agree that level surfaces will reflect light more evenly. Also a waxed surface, if if the wax is working correctly, will level as it cures, so it does create a level surface that reflects light more evenly. (much like the water of the oceans makes the uneven ocean flood even at the surface).

However, you cannot really polish paint to perfection. Under a microscope there will be evidence of polishing as abrasives (which, in order to work, are harder than paint) are being rubbed across the surface.

Adding a wax on top of this surface, will by factor of making the surface more level and add gloss.

Also, the ingredients in a wax or sealant will act to bend light differently. This slight bending of light (think Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon prism) will alter the way light reflects, changing the shine.
I can agree with this because you are providing a logical explanation behind what you are saying. The funny thing is I just used the same explanation over at Detailing World. I am more than willing to listen to explanations backed by fact or science. It's the people who say that they've been detailing for 50 years and thus, what they say is true that gets me going. There is no fact or science in that answer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd@Autopia View Post
"If you own a gloss meter... work for a wax manufacturer"

I have seen the results, working directly with wax manufacturer, on a gloss meter and have witnessed the increased shine.
I never said that they didn't work, I just said that if you owned one and wasn't in the detailing supply manufacturing business, you really need to get a life. I wasn't knocking the machine at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd@Autopia View Post
"Waxes cannot be for specific paint colors"

I know some companies dye their wax with specific colors in order to aid the filling of paint defects and scratches.

However, because waxes and sealants bend light, some create a deeper reflection (depth of shine) where as others maybe create a brighter appearing shine. Many people prefer the look (of say Pinnacle Souveran) on a dark colored cars because of the way that wax bends light. Can it work on white? Of course, but increasing depth of shine on white may not create the high-gloss finish that many white owners want.
In the video, I specifically made the distinction of waxes that contained or did not contain any dyes. You may have skipped that part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd@Autopia View Post
"Make an HD video"

Videos cannot capture the nuances of a wax or sealant. Video's capture objects in 2D and require us, using referenences, to translate the image into a 3D environment.

The best bet in this case would be to use your eyes, which in the real world, capture things in 3D, and will be much more likely to notice and appreciate the different types of shine that a wax or sealant can produce. On video, just like in pictures, perceptions are greatly limited. 1000s and 1000s of people use their own eyes and have reached a different conclusion than yours. There is no right or wrong answer.

I am very much of the opinion that we all see things differently (I cannot taste the difference in white wines and don't like most sea-food) and I know several extremely well respected detailers who cannot see much of a difference in wax. I know people who cannot see difference shades of orange. I have learned that just because I cannot see something doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means that I cannot see it.

Great video.
I can agree with you here also, although my thing with doing the video in HD was that if the difference was not drastic enough for me to capture it on video, why go through all the work of doing some crazy wax routine. This video, as most of my videos, is directed to the novices who read what people are putting on their paint and wonder why. They may go out and buy half the crap they see recommended and not have a clue why they are using it. I say to them, don't fall for all the hype. I read how people are stacking so much crap on their paint in the name of creating a shine and I just shake my head. If anything, they are killing the shine that they had before putting all that stuff on their paint.

When it's all said and done, I would rather be getting laid than working on my paint. That's why I am not in my garage at all hours of the day experimenting with 50 different products. I have yet to have a woman get in my car and claim that my wax was making her hot. If it doesn't make the girls go wild, then I probably ain't gonna waste my time fooling with it. I'm a man whore and have no problem admitting it.

Thanks for your input. It was based on theory and I will not argue with a man's theory as long as it has a sound foundation.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:02 PM   #8
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When it's all said and done, I would rather be getting laid than working on my paint. That's why I am not in my garage at all hours of the day experimenting with 50 different products. I have yet to have a woman get in my car and claim that my wax was making her hot. If it doesn't make the girls go wild, then I probably ain't gonna waste my time fooling with it. I'm a man whore and have no problem admitting it.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:18 PM   #9
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So I gotta ask and chime in. I have a 45th. One year old. My Dailey driver. I Wash it two bucket way with foam gun. Still imperfections. Little lines. Is it worth me spending the money for one of these guys who have a reader for the clear go to the leather stripit then apply one of these sealants I guess like used on corvettes.Zano? Sounds scary when words like acid and my paint are in same sentence. That could also be a pink Floyd reference for me lol
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:22 PM   #10
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I checked with the only seller of Hi-Temp that I could find about Hi-Temp Midnight Express Wax/Polymer Sealant 32 oz vs
Hi-Temp Fine Finish Wax/Polymer Sealant 32 oz.
since, superficially, they look to be the same stuff, just one with color, the other without.

The seller said that Midnight Express contains fillers, whereas Fine Finish does not.

So, expound upon Junkman's assertion; colorizer may not make a difference, but the filler will.

AJ: since, like you, I am ever interested in more bang for the buck, have you given Chemical Guys EXTREME TOP COAT -ONE STEP WHITE CARNAUBA WAX & SEALANT IN ONE w/3X CARNAUBA for a WET DURABLE FINISH (16 oz) consideration?

http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductD...10_16&CartID=3

At $9.45 for 16oz, it prices out comparable to the Hi-Temp Midnight Express and 'promises' long lasting sealant protection.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:57 PM   #11
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So I gotta ask and chime in. I have a 45th. One year old. My Dailey driver. I Wash it two bucket way with foam gun. Still imperfections. Little lines.
Then there is a flaw in the way you are touching the paint, or what you are using to touch the paint. Those little lines don't just appear from driving the car, you have to create them. If I were a betting man, I'd say that you have used a quick detailer to remove dust from your car. All it takes is ONE TIME and those lines will show up. Maybe you're drying the car by hand instead of using air. The less you touch the paint, the less chance there is for you to damage the paint. So you have to look at every process you follow that has you touching your paint. I bet if I could see what you do, I could immediately spot your issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues45th View Post
Is it worth me spending the money for one of these guys who have a reader for the clear go to the leather stripit then apply one of these sealants I guess like used on corvettes.Zano? Sounds scary when words like acid and my paint are in same sentence. That could also be a pink Floyd reference for me lol
Okay, you completely lost me with this paragraph. You need to rephrase what it is you're asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricamaro View Post
I checked with the only seller of Hi-Temp that I could find about Hi-Temp Midnight Express Wax/Polymer Sealant 32 oz vs
Hi-Temp Fine Finish Wax/Polymer Sealant 32 oz.
since, superficially, they look to be the same stuff, just one with color, the other without.

The seller said that Midnight Express contains fillers, whereas Fine Finish does not.
I would go to Hi-Temp's website and read their description just to ensure you're getting the true scoop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricamaro View Post
So, expound upon Junkman's assertion; colorizer may not make a difference, but the filler will.

AJ: since, like you, I am ever interested in more bang for the buck, have you given Chemical Guys EXTREME TOP COAT -ONE STEP WHITE CARNAUBA WAX & SEALANT IN ONE w/3X CARNAUBA for a WET DURABLE FINISH (16 oz) consideration?

http://www.chemicalguys.com/ProductD...10_16&CartID=3

At $9.45 for 16oz, it prices out comparable to the Hi-Temp Midnight Express and 'promises' long lasting sealant protection.
I've never used that product. Here's the deal with me and my mentality, concerning detailing products.

I am the LAST person who is going to buy a bunch of different products just to see which one is the best. I call that chasing a shine. I find something that works and I use it until it's gone. If it is an outstanding product, I'll buy more. If not, I reach for something else on my shelf. The reason why is that I get sent a boat load of products all the time and I have way more than I could possibly use up. So it makes absolutely no sense for me to buy anything. Since most of what I get sent is pretty good, I can let people know how well I feel that a given product performs. Midnight Express is just one of those many products.

If I was you and can find something that works for cheaper, I am so there. I don't get caught up in names and manufacturers, just the quality of the product. There is stuff out there that people on forums have never heard of. That doesn't make it a bad product, just something that is not discussed on forums. You can bet that there are diamonds in the rough out there just waiting to be discovered. The product you are asking about could be just as good as anything else. The price is considerably low but some manufacturers mark their stuff up like you would believe. I could tell you stories.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:43 PM   #12
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... Man whore cracked me up
By now, you know I call it like it is.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:15 PM   #13
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Oh yea. But I could hear Eddie Griffin in my head saying " you're a man whore Duce Bigalow."
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:04 PM   #14
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Ok junk man let me rephrase. Since seeing these little lines which I agree are probably before I got on here and learned to use two bucket washing and air drying I used a detail spray . I have found a few that for a nominal fee will look at it clay it strip it with acid after doing a ultra sound to see how thick your clear is then apply this new sealent not wax that they apply after the acid wash. Any comments concerns knowledge let me know. And I do love your diy segments. Maybe little long but love them. Thanks
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