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Old 10-23-2012, 05:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Probably perceived lightness. The flex in the Mustang's weaker chassis will add or take away from its "perceived" capabilities. Give me a more rigid chassis to work with any day.

Also as a note the Camaro's more rigid chassis will give it a feeling/sense of being heavier than it actually is, "perceived" as less tossable. Full framed race-cars do not feel tossable they feel planted!
Actually, I would argue the opposite. Back when I raced, many, many, many years ago, the tighter and more sophisticated the chassis, the more tossable the car. The standard Mustang, and indeed the GT500 I would not describe as toss able, the 1LE maybe.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:03 PM   #27
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My 2007 GT with mods made the 2011 5.0L feel like a pig and it also had more understeer making me believe the 5.0 motor was heavier than the 4.6 3v.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:22 PM   #28
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My 2007 GT with mods made the 2011 5.0L feel like a pig and it also had more understeer making me believe the 5.0 motor was heavier than the 4.6 3v.
I think the motor was slightly lighter, but the front end definitely picked up weight or the distribution of weight overall. Can't stand understeer, and while oversteer can be fun I absolutely love a neutral car. The Boss was very, very close especially on stock rubber (I screwed that up), but the kings in that category are the Elsie and new Cayman S. I'm sure there are others, I just haven't had the pleasure. All my experience with BMW's is that they always leaned toward manageable oversteer whereas Audis just plow like pigs which is why the R8 was such a brilliant departure for Audi...never considered the brand seriously before that. Mazda has also from time to time, impressed me. Ford and GM, seldom but in recent years they are moving in the right direction. I said this once before here and got shouted down for it, but a lighter Camaro with the benefits of the MR suspension I bet would be a handling dream.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:59 PM   #29
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Actually, I would argue the opposite. Back when I raced, many, many, many years ago, the tighter and more sophisticated the chassis, the more tossable the car. The standard Mustang, and indeed the GT500 I would not describe as toss able, the 1LE maybe.
Actually we're agreeing then, why? it's perceived, the feel of the beholder the sense of rotation and control.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:54 AM   #30
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In summation, Eric Tingwall writes: "The raucous Mustang installs itself in your subconscious with the viciousness of a drug addiction. Despite knowing there's an objectively better alternative with a Chevy badge, we are lured back to the Boss again and again. Its responsive chassis, competent handling, and brawny engine strike us in a psychological weak spot where emotions overrule sensibilities. We'd never question someone for making the rational choice of a Camaro SS 1LE, but reason be damned, the Boss 302 is the car we want."

Can't wait to see more H2H comparisons... can't really go wrong with either the 1LE or the Boss.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:44 AM   #31
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In summation, Eric Tingwall writes: "The raucous Mustang installs itself in your subconscious with the viciousness of a drug addiction. Despite knowing there's an objectively better alternative with a Chevy badge, we are lured back to the Boss again and again. Its responsive chassis, competent handling, and brawny engine strike us in a psychological weak spot where emotions overrule sensibilities. We'd never question someone for making the rational choice of a Camaro SS 1LE, but reason be damned, the Boss 302 is the car we want."

Can't wait to see more H2H comparisons... can't really go wrong with either the 1LE or the Boss.
I'd take a Boss over a Camaro 1LE but that is just me.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:06 PM   #32
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In summation, Eric Tingwall writes: "The raucous Mustang installs itself in your subconscious with the viciousness of a drug addiction. Despite knowing there's an objectively better alternative with a Chevy badge, we are lured back to the Boss again and again. Its responsive chassis, competent handling, and brawny engine strike us in a psychological weak spot where emotions overrule sensibilities. We'd never question someone for making the rational choice of a Camaro SS 1LE, but reason be damned, the Boss 302 is the car we want."

Can't wait to see more H2H comparisons... can't really go wrong with either the 1LE or the Boss.
So that's why they chose the more expensive car they describe as inferior...It hypnotized them!
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:48 AM   #33
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So that's why they chose the more expensive car they describe as inferior...It hypnotized them!
If you approach it with undue influence and an objective manner it'll mesmerize you too. Owning both... I totally adore my Camaro (SS) but I also love my Boss 302.

IMHO a driver's high-performance car is more than just numbers & digits. The Boss (but I'm also confident that the 1LE) is near-perfect or at minimum a well-balanced package for a sports car enthusiast straight from the dealer's lot or showroom floor.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:19 AM   #34
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If you approach it with undue influence and an objective manner it'll mesmerize you too. Owning both... I totally adore my Camaro (SS) but I also love my Boss 302.

IMHO a driver's high-performance car is more than just numbers & digits. The Boss (but I'm also confident that the 1LE) is near-perfect or at minimum a well-balanced package for a sports car enthusiast straight from the dealer's lot or showroom floor.
That's good, but an SS and a Boss are apples and oranges.

The design of the 1LE is superior to the Boss (and for a lot less $$$$). The 1LE has a much more rigid structure, an independent rear, lower CG, wider track, wider wheels and tires, superior brakes, better transmission...
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:29 AM   #35
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That's good, but an SS and a Boss are apples and oranges.

The design of the 1LE is superior to the Boss (and for a lot less $$$$). The 1LE has a much more rigid structure, an independent rear, lower CG, wider track, wider wheels and tires, superior brakes, better transmission...
I didn't just crawl out of a rock, I know the difference b/t the two... I own them for christ sakes.

And like stated before, the power and delivery in the Boss is linear and precise... it has character, heritage and personality that go far deeper than the 1LE's. The robust forged internals of the Boss is also topshelf - reliability and longevity. An SS can be converted to a 1LE much less (cost wise and effort wise) than a GT converted into a Boss. I'm happy with both MY rides... permagrin as bold as a blue oval and as wide as a bowtie.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:18 PM   #36
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An SS can be converted to a 1LE much less (cost wise and effort wise) than a GT converted into a Boss. I'm happy with both MY rides... permagrin as bold as a blue oval and as wide as a bowtie.
I have to disagree here. Have you looked at all the differences, they have almost the same upgradess over the GT and SS except the Boss has a revamped engine but same trans as the GT, the 1LE has the same engine but a revemped trans and axles.

This is a really good detailed list of differences between the GT and Boss, if the 1LE had one it would be similar (except for the trans vs. engine upgrades). The 1LE has a lot of little things that arent well known like more fule pickup, new fuel pump, oil separator, trans cooler, ZL1 steering wheel and shifter, etc. The Boss will likely cost more to convert but I don't think the difference is that big.
http://bossmustangsonline.com/boss-3...bout-the-boss/
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:35 PM   #37
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I have to disagree here. Have you looked at all the differences, they have almost the same upgradess over the GT and SS except the Boss has a revamped engine but same trans as the GT, the 1LE has the same engine but a revemped trans and axles.

This is a really good detailed list of differences between the GT and Boss, if the 1LE had one it would be similar (except for the trans vs. engine upgrades). The 1LE has a lot of little things that arent well known like more fule pickup, new fuel pump, oil separator, trans cooler, ZL1 steering wheel and shifter, etc. The Boss will likely cost more to convert but I don't think the difference is that big.
http://bossmustangsonline.com/boss-3...bout-the-boss/
Yup saw that before too... I'm also a member on BMO, TMS, etc... I'm really focusing on the Boss' engine and I know it's debatable but keep in mind the Boss' Roadrunner powerplant is the heart & soul, stock. Interesting and highly educational reading here as well- http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec...2/viewall.html
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:35 PM   #38
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they are both very nice cars and I have said before I would be happy in either one of them. But the facts are still the facts. The 1LE is faster around a race track for far less $$$$$. I just did Not want to spend more and get a slower car as a starting point I would have to work up hill and spend lots of $ on the boss to equal a stock 1LE .For me it did not make good sense to purchase a boss for what I want to do with it. Enjoy your cars as they are both awesome!!!
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:43 PM   #39
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they are both very nice cars and I have said before I would be happy in either one of them. But the facts are still the facts. The 1LE is faster around a race track for far less $$$$$. I just did mot want to spend more and get a slower car as a starting point I would have to work up hill and spend lots of $ on the boss to equal a stock 1LE .For me it did not make good sense to purchase a boss for what I want to do with it. Enjoy your cars as they are both awesome!!!
Oh I agree. The 1LE is a total bargain for the buck... perfect for Stig'meisters so to speak
Got my Boss for 40k on the dot this past May since the '13s were rolling out and there was a '12 on the showroom floor near my neck of the woods. I wasn't even thinking of the Boss since I was shopping for a loaded '13 GT but their prices were breaching 40s already. I really like what Chevy did in producing the 1LE... basically correcting the missing links in a SS. I'm not into complex modifications for now and enjoy these cars straight from the factory. The Camaro I'll likely tinker with a little more (CAI, more bolts ons, etc.) but the Boss is already a great all-around package for what it is... and it sounds like nirvana with the stock quad exhausts and the high-breathing high-revving robust engine.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:39 PM   #40
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I didn't just crawl out of a rock, I know the difference b/t the two... I own them for christ sakes.

And like stated before, the power and delivery in the Boss is linear and precise... it has character, heritage and personality that go far deeper than the 1LE's. The robust forged internals of the Boss is also topshelf - reliability and longevity. An SS can be converted to a 1LE much less (cost wise and effort wise) than a GT converted into a Boss. I'm happy with both MY rides... permagrin as bold as a blue oval and as wide as a bowtie.

Yes, you should be happy with that garage!

No doubt if I could I'd buy a Boss LS and a new Z28 (they better make it). Talk about history!!! I do think the Ford Boss and GT500 engines are top notch for a pony car. But as for the rest of the car GM has won that.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:54 PM   #41
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Yes, you should be happy with that garage!

No doubt if I could I'd buy a Boss LS and a new Z28 (they better make it). Talk about history!!! I do think the Ford Boss and GT500 engines are top notch for a pony car. But as for the rest of the car GM has won that.
I dream of a new Z/28... hopefully it won't disappoint. I wish Pontiac was still around (TransAms) but that's a separate topic. The Boss is a no-brainer and if I didn't have either right now then I'd seriously look at ordering a 1LE. This addiction doesn't subside though... went from a V6 Camaro to a SS... now dreaming of a ZL1. I'm in with that beast.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:42 PM   #42
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I dream of a new Z/28... hopefully it won't disappoint. I wish Pontiac was still around (TransAms) but that's a separate topic. The Boss is a no-brainer and if I didn't have either right now then I'd seriously look at ordering a 1LE. This addiction doesn't subside though... went from a V6 Camaro to a SS... now dreaming of a ZL1. I'm in with that beast.
Wait and trade that SS in for a Z28 (I'm feeling lucky). A 5Gen Z28 would be a 1LE + ZL1 Brakes + Aero Package + More HP (LS7?). Trust me it WILL be awesome.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:10 PM   #43
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Would you be mad if one year after you bought a 2014 Z28 the gen 6 SS weighed less,had the same HP and handled nearly as well? I am buying a 1LE until the gen 6 Z arrives.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:31 PM   #44
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Would you be mad if one year after you bought a 2014 Z28 the gen 6 SS weighed less,had the same HP and handled nearly as well? I am buying a 1LE until the gen 6 Z arrives.
Personally I love the design of the 5Gen. A 6Gen will be smaller and only weigh 200-300 pounds less (estimated). It will only get a couple miles to the gallon better fuel economy (estimated). These are not enough to sway me. I look to history in I really like the design of the 1Gen, but not so much the 2Gen. I have found that newer is not always better.
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