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Old 10-16-2012, 10:06 AM   #1
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What if......

Lets get something straight first: I'm not trying to start another zl1 vs gt 500 argument thread. I was just thinking about this and discussing this with a coworker. We all know the gt500 has more power and less weight than the zl1, but I'm interested to see what would happen if the playing field was leveled....or basically made more fair. So you get both cars and dyno them, and you add a pulley and tune to the zl1 to try to match the power to the gt500. Then drag race them and track race them. Maybe even go as far as matching the weights of both cars. I wonder what would happen?
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:28 AM   #2
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Post similar times ? Lol
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #3
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Based on current comparisons I think the Zl1 would then blow the GT500 away. It wouldn't even be a contest.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #4
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Post similar times ? Lol
I was thinking the same at the drag strip but maybe the zl1 would really shine on a road course?
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:36 AM   #5
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ZL1 and CTSV are prone to massive heat soak with more boost. So roadcoarse might not end up as a win for a Z. Think we have seen this in real life also.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Camarowguy View Post
I was thinking the same at the drag strip but maybe the zl1 would really shine on a road course?
It already does on a roadcourse. It has matched or beaten the GT500 on every track comparison. Given it weighs 250 pounds more with an 80hp deficit, if you made the playing field level, the ZL1 would theoretically annihilate the GT500. Although the flip side to that is, the ZL1 was not engineered to handle 80 more hp on a chassis that weighs 250 pounds less, so may not handle as well as it does stock
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:45 AM   #7
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It already does on a roadcourse. It has matched or beaten the GT500 on every track comparison. Given it weighs 250 pounds more with an 80hp deficit, if you made the playing field level, the ZL1 would theoretically annihilate the GT500. Although the flip side to that is, the ZL1 was not engineered to handle 80 more hp on a chassis that weighs 250 pounds less, so may not handle as well as it does stock
This is very possible. I think cooling and possible even some suspension tuning maybe needed. GM designed the car very balanced, if you change one part of the equation you have a different outcome as an end result. Maybe better maybe worse.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:46 AM   #8
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Almost the same results as you would get now since the weather has cooled off: It all depends on the driver!!"
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:53 AM   #9
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I will say from personal Experiance my 500 is a lot easier to maintain power due to heat soak than the LSA in the V. Have 665 RWHP in the ford and don't run anywhere near the timing retard in that than the V does even stock. V is now modded and getting ready to do LPE 650 but with lots of extra $$$ for cooling (SuperChiller, resiviour, TSTAT) so it doesn't lose 75RWHP on a hot day. Also seems as the LSA defiantly needs a catch can as these things love to throw oil out off the blower valley all over intercooler.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:37 AM   #10
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Lets get something straight first: I'm not trying to start another zl1 vs gt 500 argument thread. I was just thinking about this and discussing this with a coworker. We all know the gt500 has more power and less weight than the zl1, but I'm interested to see what would happen if the playing field was leveled....or basically made more fair. So you get both cars and dyno them, and you add a pulley and tune to the zl1 to try to match the power to the gt500. Then drag race them and track race them. Maybe even go as far as matching the weights of both cars. I wonder what would happen?
There are too many variables to even make the upgrades fair.

Ex:
-Up the power in the ZL1, then you need to address the cooling issues, which is a mod not needed on the GT500.
-You need to either add smaller tires to the ZL1 or larger tires to the GT500.
-Obiviously, the ZL1 will have to be a manual.
-Etc.

A better comparison would be to take two similar priced cars and then see which car can be the better performer for X amount of dollars.

Edit: There would need to be a reasonable cap to how much you can spend on mods, say $3,000.

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Post similar times ? Lol
All things being equal, I would expect the same as well
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:19 PM   #11
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people over look the gearing difference on these cars. in the 1/4 the 3.73's are going to make up for the 300lbs.

if you really look at the quarter mile times you will see once they ZL1 is throwing down 600whp-620whp. I saw a 10.80 with dr and low 600hp out of the KDI car. no 2013GT500 is going that.

the times are almost identical given equal power. on tire though I think the ZL1 will run better becasue the 3.31's in the GT500 are not going to like a dead hook as much.

now if you flip that coin though and you throw 3.73's in the GT500 then on tire it is going to start smashing the ZL1 based on being lighter and having the same mechanical advantage.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:03 PM   #12
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people over look the gearing difference on these cars. in the 1/4 the 3.73's are going to make up for the 300lbs.

if you really look at the quarter mile times you will see once they ZL1 is throwing down 600whp-620whp. I saw a 10.80 with dr and low 600hp out of the KDI car. no 2013GT500 is going that.

the times are almost identical given equal power. on tire though I think the ZL1 will run better becasue the 3.31's in the GT500 are not going to like a dead hook as much.

now if you flip that coin though and you throw 3.73's in the GT500 then on tire it is going to start smashing the ZL1 based on being lighter and having the same mechanical advantage.
The more power you have, the less gear you need. Also the gt500 transfer may be geared differently than the zl1 trans and may not need that much gear.

Case in point; I work with a guy who had a 5.0 with a supercharger along with other things. The car ran 10.40's and it went faster with 3.31 vs 3.73 gears. Which is why I believe the notion of more gear in the gt500 will make it faster is mere hogwash. I guess for my mind to be changed is to see the same car with a gear swap and same height tires go faster. I will admit if you put a taller sticky tire on it and gear it to compensate it will likely be faster.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:11 PM   #13
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The more power you have, the less gear you need. Also the gt500 transfer may be geared differently than the zl1 trans and may not need that much gear.

ZL1 GT500
2.66 2.66
1.78 1.82
1.30 1.30
1.00 1.00
0.80 0.77
0.63 0.50
3.73 3.31
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:45 PM   #14
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ZL1 GT500
2.66 2.66
1.78 1.82
1.30 1.30
1.00 1.00
0.80 0.77
0.63 0.50
3.73 3.31
You got me
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:35 PM   #15
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The more power you have, the less gear you need. Also the gt500 transfer may be geared differently than the zl1 trans and may not need that much gear.

Case in point; I work with a guy who had a 5.0 with a supercharger along with other things. The car ran 10.40's and it went faster with 3.31 vs 3.73 gears. Which is why I believe the notion of more gear in the gt500 will make it faster is mere hogwash. I guess for my mind to be changed is to see the same car with a gear swap and same height tires go faster. I will admit if you put a taller sticky tire on it and gear it to compensate it will likely be faster.
I suggest you go read the ford forums then becuase what your talking about is not working out in reality on the model we are talking about

there is a reason the first 2013's in the 9's had 3:73's swaped in. Then the next round ran a 150shot of NOS on stock gear.

that out of the whole advantage in the 60' times on a sticky tire will make up for the weight. even out the gear though and it is advantage GT500 again.

what I am talking about is on tire though. both these cars with say 600-620whp on the stock tires is proabably going to be a bit of a drivers race. they will both be capable of mid 11's but with you get the traction you need.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:45 PM   #16
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It would be no contest. The only reason the GT500 hangs with or beats the ZL1 at the road course is its power-to-weight, even up that advantage and no contest! At the drags the ZL1 will fair better due to its wider tires.


To easily be considered the power-to-weight ratio should be the same in both cars (whatever it takes to get there), everything else in the car stays as it is. This would show the superior "car" design.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:10 PM   #17
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Interesting concept, I just don't see how you could possibly make it so even is all. So the comparison is almost irrelevant because there will be always something a little different. Weight, Auto vs Manual. Tire size, gear ratio, size of blower, cooling, If you could get everything just perfect It would be the camaro because of the Magna ride imo.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:17 PM   #18
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How about instal a MR 3 ge on the GT 500 , just to level the field !
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:10 PM   #19
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How bout just make the hp the same then. Forget all the other variables. Just on power alone, leave tires, gearing and weight all stock. What about it?
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:10 PM   #20
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How about instal a MR 3 ge on the GT 500 , just to level the field !
What is that?
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:12 PM   #21
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What is that?
Magnetic Ride Gen 3
Same type of shocks as on the ZL1
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:36 PM   #22
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:23 PM   #23
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I truely believe hp for hp the ZL1 will win the drag race based on the 3.73 gearing.

search the thread on the KDI build up. his times are right out of this world. I mean he ran 10.8's (on dr) with just over 600whp.

there is another thread going on here right now with a mild mod car going 11.19. stock GT500's are not really beating these times. they are in the balpark but not really better.

Now from a roll or something the GT500 might have the advantage again becasue of the wieght.

once you start bring up mods the trolls will cry foul. the main reason I bought the ZL1 is the GT500 with PP/TP was $61,450. I truely felt I could build a better handling quicker ZL1 for $61,450. I paid $55,700 so I have $5,750 to mod. to get to the price point of the GT500 I would have ordered.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:24 PM   #24
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How about instal a MR 3 ge on the GT 500 , just to level the field !

if that were possible I might have looked harder at that car.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:25 PM   #25
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