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Old 10-19-2012, 12:27 PM   #1
Dexman1349
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Noob upgrading suspension

Looking to tighten up my 2010 2SS/RS (LS3) a little bit to help with handling these fun Colorado mountain roads. It's my daily driver, but I also like to have fun with it on the weekends or during the commute (no racing, just aggressive mtn driving). It's basically stock, so I'd like to fix that. I don't want to lower the car because I need to get over the curb to get into the garage, and I just don't like the look of a lowered Camaro (nothing against those that do, it's just not my cup of tea).

That being said, I'd like to tighten things up a bit without completely replacing everything or trading it in on a 1LE. So far I'm looking at sway bars and possibly a front strut tower brace, but not sure which ones or what else to look at (trailing arms?). If a "decent" set-up is $500, but an awesome one is only a couple hundred more, I would lean towards the awesome one, but still keeping a comfortable drive since it's my daily.

I've seen some great reviews on the Eibach sway bars, so I might just go with those to start. But when it comes to tower braces, there are just so many different ones out there (brands, 2pt vs 4pt, sizes, etc) I have no idea what would work best (or if it's really necessary).

What would be your suggestions (parts, brands, etc)?

If you guys can at least point me towards the right threads (if they're out there), it would be helpful. Thx.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:25 PM   #2
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Pedders and BMR also sell good bars. As for the strut tower brace I'd save my money and upgrade some bushings first. The 2010's FE3 suspensions have a lot of room for improvement. good luck
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:32 PM   #3
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from what I've read, look into Pedders replacement bushing kits. then I'd do new sway bars. this coming from someone who's done neither...but It is what I'd do...

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Old 10-19-2012, 01:51 PM   #4
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I would start with sub frame and radius arm bushing inserts these will take care of the foundation of your car then mod away.We would recomend a Pedders street z kit ,Pedders sway bar kit and a good alignment to start with.
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Old 10-19-2012, 03:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce@raymondsperformance View Post
I would start with sub frame and radius arm bushing inserts these will take care of the foundation of your car then mod away.We would recomend a Pedders street z kit ,Pedders sway bar kit and a good alignment to start with.


Go with Pedders Street Z kit first and then I would convert the rear over to the Pedders ZL1 bar using the new lower control arms and drop links. Then either use a 1LE front bar or Pedders front bar. Of course a good alignment is needed as well.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
Looking to tighten up my 2010 2SS/RS (LS3) a little bit to help with handling these fun Colorado mountain roads. It's my daily driver, but I also like to have fun with it on the weekends or during the commute (no racing, just aggressive mtn driving). It's basically stock, so I'd like to fix that. I don't want to lower the car because I need to get over the curb to get into the garage, and I just don't like the look of a lowered Camaro (nothing against those that do, it's just not my cup of tea).

That being said, I'd like to tighten things up a bit without completely replacing everything or trading it in on a 1LE. So far I'm looking at sway bars and possibly a front strut tower brace, but not sure which ones or what else to look at (trailing arms?). If a "decent" set-up is $500, but an awesome one is only a couple hundred more, I would lean towards the awesome one, but still keeping a comfortable drive since it's my daily.

I've seen some great reviews on the Eibach sway bars, so I might just go with those to start. But when it comes to tower braces, there are just so many different ones out there (brands, 2pt vs 4pt, sizes, etc) I have no idea what would work best (or if it's really necessary).

What would be your suggestions (parts, brands, etc)?

If you guys can at least point me towards the right threads (if they're out there), it would be helpful. Thx.
You don't really need to spend a whole load of money to make these cars a whole lot more fun to drive! Our first part suggestion would be taking a look at the sway bars on the car. Our sport sways designed for the 2010 have been a great upgrade for several years on these cars. If you're spending most of your time on the Colorado back roads these are a great first mod, that's inexpensive to buy and doesn't require an alignment afterwards!

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Old 10-19-2012, 10:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce@raymondsperformance View Post
I would start with sub frame and radius arm bushing inserts these will take care of the foundation of your car then mod away.We would recomend a Pedders street z kit ,Pedders sway bar kit and a good alignment to start with.
I did only the inserts in Pedders Street 1 and it really makes a difference

I will upgrade the sways next but the inserts, as Pete and many others have said, are the foundation. Tightens up the steering and planted the back.
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce@raymondsperformance View Post
I would start with sub frame and radius arm bushing inserts these will take care of the foundation of your car then mod away.We would recomend a Pedders street z kit ,Pedders sway bar kit and a good alignment to start with.
What's the difference between the Street 1 and Street Z packages? They seem to have the same items.
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:27 PM   #9
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Street 1 comes with EP 6578 and EP 1200.
Street Z comes with EP 6579 and EP 1200.

6578:
"Replacing the hydraulically damped OEM radius rod bushings will help with steering and pedal feel. While the NVH properties are excellent, they are too soft for performance driving in our opinion. Pedders offers three solutions for this. The first option is a direct replacement street-friendly urethane insert for the OEM rubber bit. The firmer urethane insert removes some of the compliance in the bush improving brake pedal and steering feel. Using an EP6578 is as simple as removing two bolts, removing the soft OEM rubber insert, installing the Pedders urethane and bolting it back together. You may wonder if such a small part can make a difference in such a large automobile. You will be pleasantly surprised on their first test drive."

6579:
"EP6579 full face Camaro Front Extreme Radius Rod Bush Insert replacing the soft OEM rubber insert with a very high durometer piece. The combination of bonded rubber ferrule steel jacketed bush with a full face high durometer urethane insert is outstanding. This solution is extremely firm and may lead to premature wear in the tie rod ends or the steering rack. This is the solution we have installed on the Pedders USA Camaro because we prefer the extra control. This is a hardcore option for the most demanding driver."
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce@raymondsperformance View Post
I would start with sub frame and radius arm bushing inserts these will take care of the foundation of your car then mod away.We would recomend a Pedders street z kit ,Pedders sway bar kit and a good alignment to start with.
+1
Listen to Bruce, he know's what he's talking about.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:39 PM   #11
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I got the pedders street 1 kit and the pfadt zl1 spec bars. I tell you its night and day. the car plants itself on take off the steering is crisp and you take turns it fells like its on rails. I got my parts from jdp. They gave me a killer price and some great advice. There was very little price diference from the sportbars to the zl1 bars.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:26 AM   #12
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For a car that's 2+ years old and has 24k miles, would I be better off getting the inserts or spending a little more $ and replacing the bushings altogether?
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:55 AM   #13
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What about something like this:
http://www.phastekperformance.com/20...age-hpp019.htm

Has the sway bars and bushing kits (BMR) that seem to be in line with what's recommended. I would probably sell the lowering springs.
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Old 10-22-2012, 12:21 PM   #14
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For a car that's 2+ years old and has 24k miles, would I be better off getting the inserts or spending a little more $ and replacing the bushings altogether?
The Pedders inserts work very well, and the ease of installation is much easier than full bushings.

The high quality urethane that Pedders uses in their bushings exceeds many of it's competitors, it gives you the control as well as the longevity without noises or looseness that can occur in some of the lower priced options that are available.

Pedders uses the highest quality materials in it's bushings, springs, and sway bars.

The fastest Camaros in the country are running Pedders, and at the same time the parts are designed to be driven daily, without the negative effects that has been the norm in the industry for years.

Every Pedders part is designed to be installed on a car that is driven everyday, regardless of weather, and driving style.

If i can be of any assistance let me know.
Bruce can also answer any questions that you have.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
What about something like this:
http://www.phastekperformance.com/20...age-hpp019.htm

Has the sway bars and bushing kits (BMR) that seem to be in line with what's recommended. I would probably sell the lowering springs.
Personally, I wouldn't use the BMR style inserts. I had the Energy Suspension (which are the same style as BMR) for about 2 weeks and took them out. Pedders is a little more money but way better IMO.

Not many people have had exerience with both like I have. Spend the extra money and get Pedders. You won't be sorry.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...hlight=pedders
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:01 PM   #16
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cavernman, thanks for the link that was very helpful. The only challenge is finding what's included within the pedder's kits.

The BMR kit includes:
  • Front & rear sway bars
  • Lowering springs
  • Total Suspension bushing kit
    • Rear cradle
    • differential
    • rear trailing arm
    • rear upper control arm
    • steering rack mount
    • front lower control arm
    • front radius rod
I'd like to see what's in the pedders kits for a more apples-to-apples comparison. The descriptions for the packages on the Raymonds site only really talk about what the kit does, not what it contains.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:20 PM   #17
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Also forgot to ask, if I replace the front & rear sway bars, how critical is it to also upgrade the end links? I'd hate to upgrade something only to break something else...
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:20 PM   #18
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I'm sure i can help with giving you a list of what is included.
What kit were you looking at on Raymond's site?
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:25 PM   #19
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Also forgot to ask, if I replace the front & rear sway bars, how critical is it to also upgrade the end links? I'd hate to upgrade something only to break something else...
With the Pedders bars it is required, this is the reason that they are sold as a kit.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:26 PM   #20
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From what I can tell, the Pedder's "Camaro Bush Kit Street" has the same items as the BMR "Total Suspension Bushing Kit", but the Pedder's is more than double the cost ($499 vs $1045). Am I missing something?
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:36 PM   #21
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This is list of what is included in that kit.
The quality and fit of the bushings that Pedders offers is very high quality.
The urethane used is a much higher cost, and the molding process is much more difficult/expensive to achieve the uniformity and consistency that Pedders bushings achieve.
Pedders bushings when properly installed will not make noise, and will not need to be 'relubed' over time.
  • Pedders EP2112 Steering Rack Bushing x 1
  • Pedders EP6578 Radius Arm Bushing Insert x 1
  • Pedders EP1200 Subframe Bushing Inserts - Stage 1 x 1
  • Pedders EP1167 Diff Bushings - Stage1 x 1
  • Pedders EP7264 Rear LCA Inner Bushings x 1
  • Pedders EP7323 Rear Link Bushings Kits x 3
  • Pedders EP7265 Rear Trailing Arm - Forward x 1
  • Pedders EP7322 Rear Upper Arm Bushings x 1
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:58 PM   #22
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Cool, thank you Rob. That's a big help.

Parts list so far:
Front & rear sways (not sure on brand yet, but leaning towards BMR due to price & adjustability)
End Links (If necessary)
Pedders Street 1 kit

So, what other bushings/inserts would be worthwhile? I'm thinking the differential and steering rack mounts, or possibly upgrading engine mounts.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:07 PM   #23
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one thing to keep in mind with the sway bars is the ratio

Some companies have very large hollow front bars, while the solid bar of a smaller diameter produces the same forces.

On the rear we offer 3 options, this is due to the different requirements of various customers.

From the 27mm rear to the 32mm ZL1 style bar that comes with new lower arms to accommodate the new style sway bar links that are required,

The ratios that we currently offer are due to hundreds of hours of testing and improvements that we have made over time.

i can give you good reasons to replace most of the bushings in the back of the car, it would depend on your goals and how you drive the car mostly.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #24
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I would say 80% of my driving is setting the cruise control at 60 on my way to work. However, I do take weekend trips up to the mountains and like to open things up a bit. I don't go to the track except to watch others race (I just can't afford the tires).

Just because I don't use every HP for every second behind the wheel doesn't mean I want to "waste" the HP through soft or loose connections. I want as much HP from the engine put to the wheels, and I also want to firmly plant all 4 tires on the ground as fast as I can around the corners.

On the flip side, I have a wife, kids, and a mortgage payment, so I don't have a ton of $ available to do all that I want. That being said, I want to maximize the gains from the upgrades I do get done. I want the nicer things, but not necessarily the best (unless it's cost effective to do so).

Also, since this is my daily driver, I don't want to go over the top with upgrades because I want to maintain as much warranty as possible. I don't want to end up without a car because I upgraded something that will cause me expensive problems later (including the need to upgrade other components to accomodate the upgrades already done).

Sorry if this answers your question without answering your question, but I really don't know where else to start.
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Old 10-22-2012, 04:29 PM   #25
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That is another thing about the Pedders parts, they are GMPP approved, so they won't affect your warranty.

Let me see what i can put together for you, i'll pm you later
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