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Old 10-24-2012, 02:07 PM   #51
danvillekidd
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Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
Looks like the inserts are fairly easy for a noob like me to install on my own.

What about sway bars? I have changed out shocks/struts/springs before, but never got as far as the sways. Is this a job for someone with jackstands and some hand tools or am I going to need to take this to a shop with a lift?

Regardless of what happens, I will be getting an alignment done afterwards.
I'm new at suspension stuff too and I was able to remove the front bar in my garage with just jack stands and jack. Lift car onto stands then lift the engine. Slides out drivers side (wheel off). No special tools needed.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:54 PM   #52
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just make sure you use a piece of wood on the jack so you don't damage the oil pan.

it's not that hard to do once you get in there.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:09 PM   #53
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I know I said I'd prefer not to lower the car but...

Starting with a pedder's Street 1 insert kit & a 27mm front sway (with endlinks), would I be better off with a 27mm rear sway bar or a full 1" lowering spring (front & back)? Or for arguments sake, is the Street 1 kit and front sway enough??
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:18 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
I know I said I'd prefer not to lower the car but...

Starting with a pedder's Street 1 insert kit & a 27mm front sway (with endlinks), would I be better off with a 27mm rear sway bar or a full 1" lowering spring (front & back)? Or for arguments sake, is the Street 1 kit and front sway enough??
We follow a a practical and sound, from an engineering perspective, strategy. The weakest link, the lowest handing fruit on the 5th Gen is found in the sub-frame and radius bushes. We always start there. Next are spring rate, ride height and damping. Lowering coils address two of the three. Coilovers address all three. This is where your budget plays a significant role. Sway bars are the final tuning element. So many people seem to think of sway bars as Band-Aids to cure everything that needs attention on the 5th Gen. That is a bad plan. Adding anything that increase load to the suspension without addressing the foundation only serves to make the 5th faults more pronounced. Additional load magnifies rear end step out.

With that in mind we move to sway bar and you should be looking at 25mm front bar and the 28mm ZL1 bars or Pedders 27mm front and 32mm rear. The 28mm front bar on the 1LE is not there to improve extreme performance. It is there to induce what the OE engineers feel is an appropriate amount of understeer to keep the driver safe. On the 1LE the tires are the same size all round, on different width wheels,. Squaring up the tire package reduces understeer. If you run the 1LE bars on a 5th Gen with staggered wheels and t6ires you will have more understeer you want at an AC.

Does this help?
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:47 PM   #55
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^^^ You lost me in the 2nd paragraph. For the 1LE, they needed a larger front bar to add understeer because the larger tires eliminated too much understeer?

Based on your Gen 5 Suspension thread (written back in 2010 and edited since), you rank the improvements as follows:
1) subframe & radius bushes
2) springs/coils
3) sways

Add in the fact that I have never taken my car to a track and 80% of my driving habits are covered by the stock system (under 4/10ths), I don't want to start spending money that won't be utilized (Like grandma buying a Lingenfelter).

Knowing this, as well as my reluctance to lower the car, I'm looking at a Pedder's "Daily Driver" package as a starting point. Not sure if I should add a 27mm rear sway (the Solution B kit), 32mm rear sway (Solution C), lowering springs (then how much lower) or none of the above.

Also, when it comes to the sway bars, how important is it to replace the endlinks?
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:15 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
^^^ You lost me in the 2nd paragraph. For the 1LE, they needed a larger front bar to add understeer because the larger tires eliminated too much understeer?

Based on your Gen 5 Suspension thread (written back in 2010 and edited since), you rank the improvements as follows:
1) subframe & radius bushes
2) springs/coils
3) sways

Add in the fact that I have never taken my car to a track and 80% of my driving habits are covered by the stock system (under 4/10ths), I don't want to start spending money that won't be utilized (Like grandma buying a Lingenfelter).

Knowing this, as well as my reluctance to lower the car, I'm looking at a Pedder's "Daily Driver" package as a starting point. Not sure if I should add a 27mm rear sway (the Solution B kit), 32mm rear sway (Solution C), lowering springs (then how much lower) or none of the above.

Also, when it comes to the sway bars, how important is it to replace the endlinks?
The good news is that Pedders sway bars come with Pedders High Efficiency OE Quiet Adjustable Endlinks.

If you are not going to lower your 5th Gen we do Street Z bushes. There is no reason we can't run the 27 front and 32mm rear FE3 bars. They will be lightyears better than what you have and budget friendly.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:01 PM   #57
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I've seen reports where the Street Z inserts will tear up the existing bushings and cause premature failure.

Unrelated question, how does this work in less than desireable conditions (rain, snow, ice, dirt roads)?
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:15 PM   #58
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I have not heard of any issues,

As for the weather, it will not be an issue.

I have 2 cars will complete Pedders kits on them, and i live in New England.
Both cars are driven in the snow, there have been zero problems with the weather.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:54 PM   #59
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I have not heard of any issues.
From the "EP6579 Front Radius Rod HD Inserts" description on your website:
Quote:
This solution is extremely firm and may lead to premature wear in the tie rod ends or the steering rack.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:02 PM   #60
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it's a precautionary statement, we have had no problems to date.
It's something that you should be aware of before purchasing, but the same can be said of any bush or insert that limits travel.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:08 PM   #61
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Are the HD (street Z kit) inserts GMPP approved too?
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:28 PM   #62
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let me verify before i commit
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:47 PM   #63
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Quote:
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Are the HD (street Z kit) inserts GMPP approved too?
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Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS View Post
let me verify before i commit
Yes, they are. Our radius bush inserts were the idea of a GM engineer working on the Grand Am prototype that now is built by Riley. The engineer asked for a urethane replacement for the OE rubber snubber in the radius bushes. We did a duplicate of the OE now called the EP6578. Being Pedders, we decided to take the idea a few steps further. The result is the EP6579. We made about twenty sets for GM to evealuate, but they were side tracked with a bad economy. After a bit I asked about the project status and was told to I could sell them as Pedders parts.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:17 AM   #64
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With what's been discussed, it looks like I will probably go with Pedders 27mm sways (front & rear) with the Street Z kit. I just need to wait for a couple of checks from the bank (recent refi) to come in before I can pull the trigger on this.

I will definitely post my review once I get everything installed!!

Thanks again for all the help & advice!!
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:35 PM   #65
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Stupid F-ing bank screwed me out of some serious $. Looks like I will probably just be left going with the Street Z kit and have to wait until next spring for sways. Dammit.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:45 PM   #66
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Question for the Pedders guys out there: Why do all of the pictures of the 27mm Front & rear bars show what appears to be 4 front end links?

The other kits seem to show different sized end links

I've crawled underneath my car and it looks like the 2nd pic is more accurate where the fronts are ~15" long and the rears are ~5". I just don't see how the endlinks from the 1st pic would work.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:05 PM   #67
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There are 4 endlinks as you have seen. There are the tall ones in front, small in back. My guess is the first pic has a mistake and has two sets of fronts. The second pic is more accurate.

BTW: you should look into converting over to the new FE4 suspension while you're at it.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:25 PM   #68
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We are working on updated pics, we just didn't have the correct pics to upload.
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Old 11-23-2012, 07:35 PM   #69
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Here is what I did and noticed a big difference when driving mountain and canyon roads EP 6579 and EP 1201. I have no other suspension mods, stock tire size, Hawk ceramic brake pads, and I am at 414 RWHP. I can carve winding canyon roads harder than my brakes and tires can handle. I am going with more bushings, ZL1 style sways and coilovers for wither Pfadt or Pedders, or a combo of parts from both next. I, like you use my camaro as a daily and commuter driver and here in So Cal we have a lot of canyon roads that are a blast to tear up.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:17 PM   #70
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I'm still trying to figure out how to get the swaybars and endlinks that I want, the challenge comes from finding a way to pay for them without adding more debt to the credit cards...

I've installed the EP1201 inserts and noticed a subtle difference in the handling, and am in the process of acquiring the EP6579's. I will probably add the EP 2112 (steering rack bushing) to the mix when I get the sways, just because it seems like an inexpensive upgrade to do while I have the front disassembled and in need of an alignment.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:25 PM   #71
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I'm still trying to figure out how to get the swaybars and endlinks that I want, the challenge comes from finding a way to pay for them without adding more debt to the credit cards...

I've installed the EP1201 inserts and noticed a subtle difference in the handling, and am in the process of acquiring the EP6579's. I will probably add the EP 2112 (steering rack bushing) to the mix when I get the sways, just because it seems like an inexpensive upgrade to do while I have the front disassembled and in need of an alignment.
Does 0% Debt sound Better?
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:37 PM   #72
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^^^ Would I need to get the upgraded end-link brackets if I upgrade the rear sways and endlinks?
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:15 PM   #73
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^^^ Would I need to get the upgraded end-link brackets if I upgrade the rear sways and endlinks?
Our endlinks have a substantial boss, a wide landing area that helps distribute load. The incidence of rear arm tab failure is very low. If yours fail, call me and I'll send you a set of weld in tabs we have used to strengthen new arms and repair failed arms at no charge.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:57 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Dexman1349 View Post
I'm still trying to figure out how to get the swaybars and endlinks that I want, the challenge comes from finding a way to pay for them without adding more debt to the credit cards...

I've installed the EP1201 inserts and noticed a subtle difference in the handling, and am in the process of acquiring the EP6579's. I will probably add the EP 2112 (steering rack bushing) to the mix when I get the sways, just because it seems like an inexpensive upgrade to do while I have the front disassembled and in need of an alignment.
We did the inserts in the spring and Pete's aggression street alignment.
Everything else stock.

Took a road trip this summer that included rt. 129 NC to Tennessee, narrow 2-lane, downhill, 318 turns in 11 miles
I couldn't drive as fast as the car could.
Scared myself a few times

Thanks Pete
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:08 PM   #75
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What are the terms of the 0%?

Minimum monthly payments? How long to pay off? Interest rate/fees if not paid off in time? I'd love to do something, but need more info first.
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