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Chevy Camaro vs... Comparison of Chevy Camaro versus its competition. *NO STREET RACING STORIES*

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:19 AM   #1
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V6 2012 camaro vs scion fr-s?

Just a hypothetical to see what people think. Just saw a breakdown on the scion. Looks like a sweet little car. Their hp is only like 200, but it looks way lighter.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:00 AM   #2
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My coworker has the BRZ. Great car. Already had one recall though. Part of being an early adopter.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:55 AM   #3
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I don't think thats a very comparable thing.

Scion bases themselves off being a "budget" car company in which nothing is "great" but everything works. My girlfriend has a tC, and while the car isnt' spectacular, you know its a Toyota and the car will run forever.

Now, she was actually looking to get a FR-S, so we went to the dealership a couple months ago when they came out. While the car is quite "cute" on the outside, the niceness of the car ends there. When we got inside, I found the dash area cheap, the back seats were essentially cardboard with fiber carpet on them, and just....sad. When we took the car out for a drive, I found the engine (although its 200 hp) to be underwhelming and almost "limp***k". There was no get up and go unless you were willing to just run the RPM up high. How many people do this light to light? It was sad to say the least. Especially for 26K.

The Subaru will cost you more, but you get a nicer interior and those few things the Scion is missing. Its what you're willing to pay for.

Its a very neat car, but its about as much a sports car as a Miata is.

In comparision to the Camaro, unless you're only looking at a 1/2LS, you're better off with the Camaro.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:22 AM   #4
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Unless you plan to tearing into it and investing 10gs or more in performance and interior parts, as well as exterior parts, then the Camaro beats it in every way. Sure it handles better, but it will be blown in a straight away by the V6.
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12camlt View Post
Just a hypothetical to see what people think. Just saw a breakdown on the scion. Looks like a sweet little car. Their hp is only like 200, but it looks way lighter.
It's lighter, but not lighter enough (?) to beat the Camaro in a straight line. Just do a basic power-to-weight calc:

FR-S
2750 lbs / 200 hp = 13.75

Camaro
3750 lbs / 323 hp = 11.61


Handling is a different story but since you commented on power & weight, we'll leave that for another day.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:13 AM   #6
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I don't know why but every time I see an FR-S, I get PO'd
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:28 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
It's lighter, but not lighter enough (?) to beat the Camaro in a straight line. Just do a basic power-to-weight calc:

FR-S
2750 lbs / 200 hp = 13.75

Camaro
3750 lbs / 323 hp = 11.61


Handling is a different story but since you commented on power & weight, we'll leave that for another day.
Yeah when you break it down like that one would think it should beat a v6 camaro but they barely break 14.9 stock. It makes decent peak power but its lazy everywhere else except redline. If or maybe when they offer version with a turbo it will be a little monster but for now they are basically a bigger miata.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:45 AM   #8
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Yeah when you break it down like that one would think it should beat a v6 camaro but they barely break 14.9 stock. It makes decent peak power but its lazy everywhere else except redline. If or maybe when they offer version with a turbo it will be a little monster but for now they are basically a bigger miata.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:07 AM   #9
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The FR-S and BRZ are in desperate need of another 100 HP and 150 lb of torque to be competitive against the other RWD cars in its price range. Why you would only put 150lbs of torque in a 2800lb car and then label it a sports car is beyond me. I don't know about the Camaro V6 but the Mustang V6 will slaughter it on a drag strip and road course. They seriously need to add a turbo kit to give it 300/300 and not charge any more money for it. Even with 300hp I don't see it being much faster than a Mustang V6. I mean come on for 5k more you can have a GT,SS or 370Z. I just dont get it.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:17 AM   #10
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The FR-S and BRZ are in desperate need of another 100 HP and 150 lb of torque to be competitive against the other RWD cars in its price range. Why you would only put 150lbs of torque in a 2800lb car and then label it a sports car is beyond me. I don't know about the Camaro V6 but the Mustang V6 will slaughter it on a drag strip and road course. They seriously need to add a turbo kit to give it 300/300 and not charge any more money for it. Even with 300hp I don't see it being much faster than a Mustang V6. I mean come on for 5k more you can have a GT,SS or 370Z. I just dont get it.
Honestly? A 300/300 FR-S or BRZ should destroy a V6 Mustang, power to weight. It would only be down 5 HP, but have around 15 more pound ft of torque and be around 600 pounds lighter. And in reality from what most V6 Camaros seem to run, especially autos, the twins are not that much slower and are we really harping on interior quality? As for price, the twins have specially designed sportscar platforms with low centers of gravity, lightweight, and excellent balance. the Camaro on the other hand is a compromised have sedan with 2 doors knocked of, though that sedan platform helps keep the price lower. that said the FRS starts around 24k, the GT around 32k, and the SS around 33k, hardly just a 5k difference. Also "Sports cars" are not about straightline power, never have been. They are about handling, light weight, and fun to drive which the twins have in spades and the Camaro is not even close to a sports car, neither is the Mustang or Challenger, 3 sporty coupes based on sedans (yes, even the Mustang is based on the Lincoln LS), but not sports cars.......
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:20 PM   #11
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The BRZ sti is supposedly going to come with 280hp and 250 ft lbs. If it is geared properly it should be comparable to a 370z in a straight line and it will likely be one incredible track car for the money based on subaru technica international's previous brake and suspension setups.
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:47 PM   #12
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In a straight line you would beat him easily. If my 2012 2ls with its prius transmition could do it, im sure yours can too. But if its on a race track... well.... Yeah...
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:20 PM   #13
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I ran one, FR-S. Beat it. Would still prefer it over my Camaro. YMMV.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:34 PM   #14
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I test drove an FR-S and wasn't impressed with anything except it's cute looks. It doesn't handle as well as they say it does, I honestly would rather buy a Honda S2000 well kept preowned and screw the Subi/ Toyota make. The test drive was so meaningless I don't even remember anything worthwhile about the test drive.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:07 PM   #15
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I'd just go with a used Solstice or Sky and call it a day. The 2.0 will out perform all of the above mentioned cars.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:08 PM   #16
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The BRZ sti is supposedly going to come with 280hp and 250 ft lbs. If it is geared properly it should be comparable to a 370z in a straight line and it will likely be one incredible track car for the money based on subaru technica international's previous brake and suspension setups.
That is what it really should have been stock...
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:36 AM   #17
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This is a cool comparison between the BRZ and the v6 mustang. Maybe it would help a bit.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:10 AM   #18
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Notice the V6 mustang kicks its ass and I believe the 2 cars cost about the same.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:14 AM   #19
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Yeah I got a little backwards on that one...
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:11 AM   #20
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That is what it really should have been stock...
While it will be great if/when it happens, it wasn't the pont of the car. it is all about feel and driver involvment, even the placement of interior controls are designed for the driving experience, not luxury, and 24k for a car with a DEDICATED SPORTS CAR PLATFORM is a steal and high 14s in the 1/4 mile is hardle and low/mid 6zs to 60 is hardly slow.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:42 AM   #21
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While it will be great if/when it happens, it wasn't the pont of the car. it is all about feel and driver involvment, even the placement of interior controls are designed for the driving experience, not luxury, and 24k for a car with a DEDICATED SPORTS CAR PLATFORM is a steal and high 14s in the 1/4 mile is hardle and low/mid 6zs to 60 is hardly slow.
Ehhhh no. 14.1 with a turbo?




If the point of the car is feel and involvement, the only feel and involvement you will experience is getting pissed that everything on the road is faster than you and you can barely keep up with Civic Sis.

It doesn't handle better than the Camaro or Mustang to justify taking it over 300 Hp. How often are you even going to push a BRZ/FRS to its handling limits off track? How often will you even get on a track?

Its better to get a Camaro or Mustang, cars that are way more comfortable and FASTER, something you can actually use on roads, and then simply upgrade the suspension. Then you have a car that handles just as good and better than you will ever actually use and that is plenty quick for a DD.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:54 AM   #22
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I actually like cars like this that are small and you can whip around a corner, trying to keep the engine as wound up as you can, little engine screaming. Reminds me of when I used to drive my AE86 or FC3S. My friend has a black FR-S, and to me, it's a blast to drive... Does it have power like my SS? Heck no. Not even like my old LFX. But the Camaros feel heavy and big like boats to me compared to the FR-S. I sometimes miss the small, quick car feel. I've considered it as a car for my wife.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:48 AM   #23
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I would like to name a few cars off the top of my head that are faster than the BRZ and FR-S on ANY track,strip or road course yet cost about the same.
Mustang V6, Camaro V6, Genesis V6, Mazdaspeed 3, WRX, Focus ST. The list probably goes on but you get the point. What is a dedicated sports car chassis with no power to use it? Other than looks I cant see why a potential buyer would choose this car over the many other better offerings. Why would Subaru not just put the WRX motor in the car? To think what might have been.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:19 AM   #24
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I would like to name a few cars off the top of my head that are faster than the BRZ and FR-S on ANY track,strip or road course yet cost about the same.
Mustang V6, Camaro V6, Genesis V6, Mazdaspeed 3, WRX, Focus ST. The list probably goes on but you get the point. What is a dedicated sports car chassis with no power to use it? Other than looks I cant see why a potential buyer would choose this car over the many other better offerings. Why would Subaru not just put the WRX motor in the car? To think what might have been.
Balance. That's why it doesn't have a turbo power plant. Now if it was mid engine setup oh boy watch out now. Honestly my SS with the suspension mods actually killed the FR-s I test drove around the rotary not to far from the dealership. Also what razor sharp steering are they talking about, the steering is cheap crap to me no where near E46 M3 steering. This car makes me realize how the magazine editors can make fried dough look like a $10,000 wedding cake, or a Timex look like a Rolex. My SS feels heavier but on a track get real, the FR-S in stock form will get demolished. Modded now hopefully that's a different story I hope since I may want to go this route in the future. Same with the Cayman S. I see lots of them getting passed by Boss 302s on track and M3s but editors will claim that even still with just over 300hp they should beat or hang with the 2 mentioned. Also I actually love the Suburu BRZ and FR-s interior.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:41 AM   #25
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Ehhhh no. 14.1 with a turbo?




If the point of the car is feel and involvement, the only feel and involvement you will experience is getting pissed that everything on the road is faster than you and you can barely keep up with Civic Sis.

It doesn't handle better than the Camaro or Mustang to justify taking it over 300 Hp. How often are you even going to push a BRZ/FRS to its handling limits off track? How often will you even get on a track?

Its better to get a Camaro or Mustang, cars that are way more comfortable and FASTER, something you can actually use on roads, and then simply upgrade the suspension. Then you have a car that handles just as good and better than you will ever actually use and that is plenty quick for a DD.
What? they are still faster and quicker than 95% of qwhat is on the road and the Camaro V5 especially is not much quicker. And no a stock Camaro V6 is not going to handle as well with it's extra 900 pounds, compromised sedan platform, and MUCH higher center of gravity. Feel is NOT about how fast it is, but how quick the turn-in is, how well it holds a curve and being able to actually feel the textures of the road. It is not a straightline car, was never meant to be. it is about handling, feel, and precision. Buy Camaro or Mustang because of comfort? ROFL! You may be surprised, but roomwise and comfoprtwise they are all 3 very close. This car is more about pure driving and let me tell you i know of some roads where one would be a total blast. IMHO, the ponies and the FR-S are in totally different leagues. The Mustang and Camaro are pony cars, the FR-S/BRZ are sports cars and more about the pure driving experience. nothing wrong with either, just very different and each warrants it's asking price. i notice you brought up modifying to keep up with the FR-S? Really. Basically all they would have to do is swap out the Prius tires they come with for some performance tires and those things are capable of pulling a G on the skidpad. The FR-S/BR-Z were designed from the ground up with handing, road feel, center of gravity, weight distribution, and lightweight in mind. As a sports car platform quite frankly it craps all over the current V6 pony car crowd. Let's put it this way, power is the ONLY advantage they have over the twins. Give those cars 300 HP and proper transmission and gear ration and they would be aiming for SS/GT acceleration times and just totally pass-up the V6 variants. That is what a 800-1000 pound weight advantage does for you. I mean come on, people here contstantly bang on the CHallenger 200-300 pounds more wieght, seems rather insignificant compared to the twins massive weight advantage.......
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