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Old 10-24-2012, 11:04 AM   #1
Sharp-ZL1
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Livernois pulley need help !!!!

Pulley is making way more boost than it should make, we went from 8 to 14 PSI.

Actaully still no power on the dyno, datalogs show lots of knock which should not be there.

More info for some help.

We have boost (probably too much, but why?), car gets enough fuel, AFR is between 10.8 and 11.2
but we get huge knock without reason. Running only about half of the timing that it should.

Only pulley and cooler installed so fa, nothing that could make problems. Pulley must be fine as we get the boost
without any belt slippage. If something was wrong there, we would not have that boost.


Is this normal for just your pulley kit that I got from them.

2.55 pulley kit with idler, solid pulley and 160 thermo



Thank for your advise.

Last edited by Sharp-ZL1; 10-24-2012 at 11:41 AM. Reason: adding more info
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:42 AM   #2
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Why not ask Livernois?
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:42 AM   #3
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I sent them an PM. trying to get info to my tuner fast.
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:17 PM   #4
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Sharp, what are your IAT2s? If i had to guess, they are above 150* - if you dont have a high efficiency heat exchanger system, the engine will pull timing fast. I had the same issue before switching h/e after i increased boost to around 13.5
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:34 PM   #5
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I have the KDI heat exchanger on installed.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:38 PM   #6
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From Livernios

Too rich can cause issues of it's own as well.



It sounds like too much, but is that the factory gauge? or an actual data log or reading from an external sensor on the dyno? My guess is if it's real the cats are melting out of it.

If the car was tuned too aggressively the catlytic converters can literally melt, causing exhaust restriction, and eventually engine damage. Sometimes this can be seen by high boost pressures, with large amounts of knock, and low power numbers. The fix, if there is no engine damage yet, is to get rid of the cats. I am not saying this is for sure what's happening, but it could be.


From Kraftwerks

We have boost (probably too much, but why?), car gets enough fuel, AFR is between 10.8 and 11.2
but we get huge knock without reason. Running only about half of the timing that it should.

Only pulley and cooler installed so fa, nothing that could make problems. Pulley must be fine as we get the boost
without any belt slippage. If something was wrong there, we would not have that boost.

Factory gauge shows even more (15 PSI). We read it out by OBD .

The cats had come to my mind also, but hard to believe that they don’t survive 5 minutes on the dyno with increase boost?

Directly after the pulley install it went great. Never run lean, had no knock. Nothing changed and no knocking all the time.
We will take the exhaust off tomorrow and check the cats

Yes, i agree with him. Too aggressive tune we can 100% exclude, I set it pig rich and with very conservative timing for the first drive.

The engine runs really smooth, I don’t see the problem with the engine.
What I can see is that the higher the rpm, the more power it looses compared to stock. That would also point towards a restriction in the exhaust

I also had somebody else check the tune, maybe I did not see something right.
But it seems to be no tune issue… We will find it tomorrow. Car needs to cool down before we can check the cats

We will have to look if some “universal” part will fit in there or if they have some special size needed.
Just replacing them with stock ones will be useless, as the issue (if there is one) would just appear again sooner or later.
But let us check first thing tomorrow if it’s the cats or if we are searching in a wrong direction.

Fact is: the knock sensors read a lot of knock which should not be there. Programming in any direction makes no changes, so we

Must look at the “hardware” side…


That not what we expected to see, but you never know

Sharp,

I think that he is learning alot about the ZL1. I just hope that they can figure this out. More to come tomorrow and I hope that its good news.




Last edited by Sharp-ZL1; 10-24-2012 at 03:30 PM. Reason: add
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:11 PM   #7
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:12 PM   #8
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I am gonna guess there is an exhaust restriction, maybe internally damaged cats or something, I have seen it before on a 1400 mile ZL1 when we changed the pulley and dyno'd it. We ended up installing ARH 1 7/8 header system with cats (fixed the problem) and it picked up 80 rwhp...

We were experiencing the same symptoms as you are mentioning.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:31 AM   #9
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Right side was not flowing as well as the left side on the secondary Cat. Removed secondary and going check to see if that fixes the problem.

Glad that you found part of the problem. Lets hope this fixes it and then we can get some good number.

Who has the best headers with cats and reasonable Price? Didn't want to go that way just yet but might have to.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:52 AM   #10
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This has been an an informative post and sure backs up the old adage that you have to pay to play. Glad to hear you may have found the likely problem. Don't know about prices as all of these brands are competitive with each other, but you should research Stainless Works, Kooks, and American Racing Headers. I see a lot of posts referencing Kooks and Stainless Works.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:15 AM   #11
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What Customer service from Andy At livernois!!!! He has been very helpful with this issue even from way across the pond.


Thank you Sir!!!!
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:20 PM   #12
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LT headers and HF cats definitely, youll be glad you did.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:26 PM   #13
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How are you evacuating the crankcase? If you dont have a PROPER designed catchcan for your setup then your ingesting oil and that causes plenty of spark knock from the detonation. Should have timing at no more than 16-18* advance under boost as well.
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Old 10-26-2012, 06:54 AM   #14
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Mike@newera - I am gonna guess there is an exhaust restriction, maybe internally damaged cats or something, I have seen it before on a 1400 mile ZL1 when we changed the pulley and dyno'd it. We ended up installing ARH 1 7/8 header system with cats (fixed the problem) and it picked up 80 rwhp...

Question for you, Was you able to see any visible problems with Cats when you removed them.

I just got done talking with the shop and they replaced the secondary Cats (small one that come after the large one) This increase HP but not torque and reduced 50% of the knock.

You can look right through the large cats. He is removing them and going to test it out. If this work then I will have to order Headers with cats during the winter and get them installed in the spring. (This is not my Daily Driver and Germany winters and not a good place to be driving this car.)

The first thing I would do is have them put a bore scope in the engine to see if there is any damage, then do a leak down test. Done all is Good.

SC2150 - How are you evacuating the crankcase? If you dont have a PROPER designed catchcan for your setup then your ingesting oil and that causes plenty of spark knock from the detonation. Should have timing at no more than 16-18* advance under boost as well.

I have install the RX dual catch Can.



Hope that will help!

Last edited by Sharp-ZL1; 10-26-2012 at 06:59 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:13 AM   #15
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After removal of the exhaust, there was no visual evidence of damage to the cats in the scenario we encountered. But you dont gain 80 rwhp from long tube headers, and you dont not gain any power from a pulley swap and more boost, so I assume the cats had to be internally damaged in which we could not visually see from an exterior stand point.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:23 AM   #16
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SLP long tubes headers coated and high flow cats work very well for me.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:29 AM   #17
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mike@newera
Thank you for the assistance. I will keep you posted after they replace the cats with straight pipe. Then I will be shopping for headers and maybe cats.
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:47 AM   #18
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Here are the Secondary Cat. Does anybody see what might be wrong with them? There is a difference between the Passenger and drivers side. Can somebody explain possible why this cause part of the problem. We are removing the primaries today in hope that fixes the rest of the problem.

Thank you
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:30 AM   #19
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Time for the lasts Update.

By removing all the Cats fixed the problems that the tune was having.

On the last Dyno he stated it ran 610 HP up from 500hp. I am waiting on the Print out to post

The problem now he is states on Start up and WOT it loud. So now I have to how loud it is then decide whether or not to go with headers with Cats.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:56 AM   #20
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Final Numbers Germany 621 RWHP

After removing the Cats all worked out well.

Here is the video of the dyno.

http://youtu.be/-Y2iJ9f7kPY

Here is the data sheet.

We think that the Cats was start to be restricted since pick up so base numbers were not corrected. At least this is what we are thinking.

Pulley, CAI and Tune. Heat Exchanger and Catch can (non help with HP)
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