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Old 10-25-2012, 08:08 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mgizzle View Post
It doesnt use energy from the engine due to not having a mechanical pump. Hence, less load on motor, better fuel efficiency and maybe more power.
What you said
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:40 AM   #27
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I was curious why GM hadn't put up different HP/TQ numbers for the Dual Mode Performance Exhaust like they do on the Corvette.

That exhaust has my attention as an option because I figure it is at least as good as the average cat back aftermarket exhaust just add headers and your exhaust is done and it gives you the option of being civilized when you sneak home at 3am... wouldn't want to wake up the wife...
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:16 AM   #28
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I was curious why GM hadn't put up different HP/TQ numbers for the Dual Mode Performance Exhaust like they do on the Corvette.

That exhaust has my attention as an option because I figure it is at least as good as the average cat back aftermarket exhaust just add headers and your exhaust is done and it gives you the option of being civilized when you sneak home at 3am... wouldn't want to wake up the wife...

Very likely to keep down insurance for buyers
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:20 AM   #29
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I think the numbers should be moved for better marketing. But hell GM doesn't even have a 1LE Tee shirt out yet. The reality is that this car will not appeal to most Camaro owners and will probably be the least sold of all the configurations except maybe the zl1 vert. Maybe they'll let me print the tee's.

Slogans, we need slogans!!
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:07 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by tramtwo View Post
I think the numbers should be moved for better marketing. But hell GM doesn't even have a 1LE Tee shirt out yet. The reality is that this car will not appeal to most Camaro owners and will probably be the least sold of all the configurations except maybe the zl1 vert. Maybe they'll let me print the tee's.

Slogans, we need slogans!!
The car doesnt even have 1LE emblems in any way and they didnt change any #'s.....quite sure it was for insurance purposes. 5-10 more HP will not justify more buyers that passed up a Gen5 for years.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:47 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by SUKXOST View Post
The car doesnt even have 1LE emblems in any way and they didnt change any #'s.....quite sure it was for insurance purposes. 5-10 more HP will not justify more buyers that passed up a Gen5 for years.


IDK the 1LE package is what is getting me off the couch to buy one. The SS seemed great but too far from what I wanted in a pony car. The 1LE gets me there suspension wise all I plan to do is some Pedders springs and bushings and upgrade to ZL1 front brakes. Then a few motor mods. The standard SS would lead me to spend a ton on the suspension before I touched power mods. About $500 is all I need and the car will be where I want it.

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Old 10-25-2012, 12:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Firefighter View Post
IDK the 1LE package is what is getting me off the couch to buy one. The SS seemed great but too far from what I wanted in a pony car. The 1LE gets me there suspension wise all I plan to do is some Pedders springs and bushings and upgrade to ZL1 front brakes. Then a few motor mods. The standard SS would lead me to spend a ton on the suspension before I touched power mods. About $500 is all I need and the car will be where I want it.

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Yes, the entire 1LE PACKAGE may have convinced you....but if it were identical to an SS and jsut advertised with 435HP vs 426....you'd still be looking. I'm staying on topic to what I said as the few extra HP not making the difference.

I ALSO am buying the 1LE for the whole package and not just the few ponies. GM is smart to NOT spend a crap load of money designing and making new emblems to add onto all the 1LEs and advertise more HP alone. It IS though worth advertising the whole car.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:10 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Kent2010 View Post
So if I put some 4.56 gears in my stock SS, and go put it on a chassis dyno, that dyno will now show my car as making more torque than all other stock SS Camaros? And since the Horsepower number that the dyno gives me is actually mathematically derived from the torque curve, I now have more HP than stock too?
Yes and No, maybe. If 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio then you won't see the power on a dyno which is pulled in 4th gear, but gears 1, 2, & 3 will see gains. Gears also push the power band forward so peak torque shifts to a lower RPM. Check out this link:

http://thehorsepowerjunkies.com/vehi...swappin-gears/

Now even though the 1LE has 3.91 gears it won't make such a big difference because the trans is also geared differently.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:30 PM   #34
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I know for a fact that the '13 SS with optional NPP is a good bit faster than a '10-'12. I had a '12 for a few days before I returned it to the dealer and ordered my '13. The car is night and day. I would bet the '13 with NPP and electric p/s is making 20-30hp more over any '10-'12.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:35 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by SUKXOST View Post
Yes, the entire 1LE PACKAGE may have convinced you....but if it were identical to an SS and jsut advertised with 435HP vs 426....you'd still be looking. I'm staying on topic to what I said as the few extra HP not making the difference.

I ALSO am buying the 1LE for the whole package and not just the few ponies. GM is smart to NOT spend a crap load of money designing and making new emblems to add onto all the 1LEs and advertise more HP alone. It IS though worth advertising the whole car.
Point taken and to be honest I agree with the thoughts on the financial aspect. Personally I de-badge all my vehicles. All they get to keep is their bowties.

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Old 10-25-2012, 01:18 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by tramtwo View Post
I think the numbers should be moved for better marketing. But hell GM doesn't even have a 1LE Tee shirt out yet. The reality is that this car will not appeal to most Camaro owners and will probably be the least sold of all the configurations except maybe the zl1 vert. Maybe they'll let me print the tee's.

Slogans, we need slogans!!
Read somewhere the Product Marketing Manager for the Camaro thought the 1LE would appeal to 2% of the buyers.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:20 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by SUKXOST View Post
Yes, the entire 1LE PACKAGE may have convinced you....but if it were identical to an SS and jsut advertised with 435HP vs 426....you'd still be looking. I'm staying on topic to what I said as the few extra HP not making the difference.

I ALSO am buying the 1LE for the whole package and not just the few ponies. GM is smart to NOT spend a crap load of money designing and making new emblems to add onto all the 1LEs and advertise more HP alone. It IS though worth advertising the whole car.
I'm buying the 1LE not b/c of the HP but b/c they focused on handling. Finally no more BS from German car owners (of which I'm one today) that US Pony cars don't handle. Had an 84 Z28 with 3.73's which I loved. Went to Saturday, Jeep Grand Cherokee then Audi S4. Glad to come back to Chevy.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:22 PM   #38
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Point taken and to be honest I agree with the thoughts on the financial aspect. Personally I de-badge all my vehicles. All they get to keep is their bowties.

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Why do you debadge? Theft or other? I thought about the SS logo on the front instead of the huge yellow bow tie but now I'm thinking about the Heritage grill with nothing on it.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:44 PM   #39
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Why do you debadge? Theft or other? I thought about the SS logo on the front instead of the huge yellow bow tie but now I'm thinking about the Heritage grill with nothing on it.
Heritage grill will be installed and all emblems and both Chevy emblems will be GONE immediately!!!!

Clean look FTW!
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:47 PM   #40
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Heritage grill will be installed and all emblems and both Chevy emblems will be GONE immediately!!!!

Clean look FTW!
This... clean stealth bomber look for me. All my vehicles are shades of black. LoL but you gotta leave the bowtie on. Anything less is just uncivilized.

I'll probably leave the SS logo on the body color grille the dealer sells.

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Old 10-25-2012, 03:00 PM   #41
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I too have been deciding what to do. I am not sure I like the look of the heritage grille empty, it seems it is missing something. I have deiced I am going to sand and paint the front and back bowtie. I am going to paint the chrome portion matt blacke and the bowtie will be done in dark carbon fiber. All else will be removed and all chrome trim replaced with black(tail light trim).
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:10 PM   #42
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Here's a link for full carbon fiber bow ties for front and back:

http://www.rpidesigns.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=2018
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:18 PM   #43
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Wow where did this thread go?! GM doesn't give a flip about an individual's insurance cost... I'm sure.

The hp/tq marketing I referred to was in addition to all the other specs listed in GM's official releases. Which by the way has this car being built in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico.

I am sure in a few weeks when these hit the street members here will be all too happy to share their stock dyno numbers as they get their 1LE swag on. I for one am very interested to see what they will look like. Maybe they look just like the SS and it will be uneventful as we all try to describe the "1LE feel" difference.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:25 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
Yes and No, maybe. If 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio then you won't see the power on a dyno which is pulled in 4th gear, but gears 1, 2, & 3 will see gains. Gears also push the power band forward so peak torque shifts to a lower RPM. Check out this link:

http://thehorsepowerjunkies.com/vehi...swappin-gears/

Now even though the 1LE has 3.91 gears it won't make such a big difference because the trans is also geared differently.
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you if you are saying that dyno numbers will markedly improve just because you switch R&P gears. If that was true, then ALL dyno tests would be run only in 1st gear, because its the lowest numerically and delivers, by a very wide margin, the most 'torque to the ground' to the rear wheels, and thus would give the highest result out of all the gears in the transmission. In real life, many cars give the best dyno numbers in 3rd or 4th gears.

Also, an engine's peak torque doesn't move in the rpm band just because you switch gears -- it just becomes available at a lower vehicle speed. Maybe that's what you meant?

Cheers,
Kent
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat View Post
Here's a link for full carbon fiber bow ties for front and back:

http://www.rpidesigns.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=2018


Yeah I saw those too, but think it would look really good with a black border around the carbon fiber. I dont really like the full carbon fiber look and I can do what I said for a great deal cheaper. It always gives me more pride in my vehicle to know I did some modifications by hand, however small they may be. I saw a ZL1 with a similar bowtie as i am referring to. I will see if I can find and post the pic.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:04 PM   #46
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Yeah I saw those too, but think it would look really good with a black border around the carbon fiber. I dont really like the full carbon fiber look and I can do what I said for a great deal cheaper. It always gives me more pride in my vehicle to know I did some modifications by hand, however small they may be. I saw a ZL1 with a similar bowtie as i am referring to. I will see if I can find and post the pic.
See again ... click the Style option. Black bordered option is there!

http://www.rpidesigns.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=2018
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:26 PM   #47
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So it would seem that a lot of future 1LE owners new to this forum don't really understand the thread concept yet or "Camaro." I would hope it is not cause we are just being disrespectful.

THIS thread was started to discuss torque... most every thread in this 1LE sub forum has gone way off topic. Not trying to control anyone. But wading through several topics in one thread discourages those more experienced members from contributing. It also makes having any sort of reference resource for learning useless.

/end rant
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:29 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
Yes and No, maybe. If 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio then you won't see the power on a dyno which is pulled in 4th gear, but gears 1, 2, & 3 will see gains. Gears also push the power band forward so peak torque shifts to a lower RPM. Check out this link:

http://thehorsepowerjunkies.com/vehi...swappin-gears/

Now even though the 1LE has 3.91 gears it won't make such a big difference because the trans is also geared differently.
That was a good read.... even a newbie like me can begin to get the jist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent2010 View Post
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you if you are saying that dyno numbers will markedly improve just because you switch R&P gears. If that was true, then ALL dyno tests would be run only in 1st gear, because its the lowest numerically and delivers, by a very wide margin, the most 'torque to the ground' to the rear wheels, and thus would give the highest result out of all the gears in the transmission. In real life, many cars give the best dyno numbers in 3rd or 4th gears.

Also, an engine's peak torque doesn't move in the rpm band just because you switch gears -- it just becomes available at a lower vehicle speed. Maybe that's what you meant?

Cheers,
Kent
So the useable torque is what GM was going after with the change of transmission and the gears. So not only peak numbers but the dyno curve will also be interesting. Wonder how this will affect tunes and bolt ons?
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:29 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by tramtwo View Post
So it would seem that a lot of future 1LE owners new to this forum don't really understand the thread concept yet or "Camaro." I would hope it is not cause we are just being disrespectful.

THIS thread was started to discuss torque... most every thread in this 1LE sub forum has gone way off topic. Not trying to control anyone. But wading through several topics in one thread discourages those more experienced members from contributing. It also makes having any sort of reference resource for learning useless.

/end rant
Fair point. My bad for adding to it. We have gone from HP to sub-discussions on Handling to Badging to Target Market.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:35 PM   #50
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Recap

Quote:
Originally Posted by tramtwo View Post
So adding the 1LE performance package to an SS doesn't increase torque?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberPredator View Post
No it doesn't. Tq multiplication increases because of the 3.91 gear, but actual flywheel tq stays the same. Same exact LS3 that's in the SS
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Originally Posted by tramtwo View Post
Ok so will there be more torque to the ground? I thought just adding 3.91 gears you'd get at least a 10% increase to the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent2010 View Post
Torque to the ground? That isn't a standard measurement that I've ever heard of, since it encompasses so many variables (transmission type, trans gearing, rear end gears, tire size, friction losses due to gearing cut type, etc etc)

The 1LE will definitely *feel* snappier bc of the 3.91's (thus explaining the high demand for the 3.91's), but that's just the multiplier effect of the higher gear ratio, not an increase of torque produced by the motor.

We might say that the 1LE has greater 'fake torque' than a standard SS... LoL
(Come on... its a joke!)
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And a funny one at that. So for the uninformed. What would that snappier feel be measured as?
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Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
Fake torque = REar wheel torque that you see on a chasis dyno. I think a lot people consider theis real torque since this is the actual power getting to the ground. An engine can make all the power in the world but if you cant get it to the wheels efficiently it is worthless. The manufacturer engine ratings use flywheel ratings from an engine dyno.
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So will the 1LE equipped SS dyno with more torque?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
Remains to be seen. Will definitely be interesting to see.

For what it's worth - it absolutely feels and performs more quickly than an SS. But it's a matter of smart engineering vs. just adding more power.
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
Besides, the only numbers that matter are at the finish line, not at the dyno.
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Originally Posted by natmad View Post
Seems to be some confusion about the 3.91 gears. Along with the change in the rear end to 3.91 gears, the 1LE also gets different transmission ratios making overall performance in each gear (1-6) similar. I think the main differences will be seen in 2nd, 3rd and 4th for increased road course performance. Someone with internet skills can probably link to the gear ratios and speed at redline info for each gear from another thread.

Putting 3.91 gears in a standard SS would make much more of a torque multiplying type effect at the wheels that some are talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
Yup! +1. Can't forget the transmission itself, it was changed, too.

The lower gears are a tad shorter overall, but more importantly, better-matched to a track environment versus the street.

The higher gears, notably 5th and 6th...actually end up taller than an SS overall...engine spins slower, could see a fuel-economy benefit there...
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So we dont know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarFan View Post
GM didn't re-certify the HP/Tq ratings of the LS3 with 1LE options. They used the same SAE rated figures the LS3 has had in the Camaro M6 since 2010 MY.

The 1LE optioned LS3 with electric steering and dual mode exhaust should have more power than the standard SS variant.

But owners will have to prove it with dyno and performance testing on their own.
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Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
Good point that i forgot about. The 1LE is making more power to the ground with the lighter wheels and tires also. This reduction in unsprung weight will help accelerate and brake better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
I heard in another thread that the dual mode exhaust doesn't add any horsepower to the rear wheels. It was said that no aftermarket cat-back systems add power, they're strictly for sound if you don't add headers. Not sure how true that is.
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Originally Posted by tramtwo View Post
Well all I know is that for me coming from a ss vert with gm's 21's and an extra 200+ pounds I am sure to be impressed!! Especially after I put on the headers and cai on and let Ted have a go at it.

Am willing to offer the car for science... anyone local want to do some before and after dyno testing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent2010 View Post
So if I put some 4.56 gears in my stock SS, and go put it on a chassis dyno, that dyno will now show my car as making more torque than all other stock SS Camaros? And since the Horsepower number that the dyno gives me is actually mathematically derived from the torque curve, I now have more HP than stock too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tramtwo View Post
I think the numbers should be moved for better marketing. But hell GM doesn't even have a 1LE Tee shirt out yet. The reality is that this car will not appeal to most Camaro owners and will probably be the least sold of all the configurations except maybe the zl1 vert. Maybe they'll let me print the tee's.

Slogans, we need slogans!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
Yes and No, maybe. If 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio then you won't see the power on a dyno which is pulled in 4th gear, but gears 1, 2, & 3 will see gains. Gears also push the power band forward so peak torque shifts to a lower RPM. Check out this link:

http://thehorsepowerjunkies.com/vehi...swappin-gears/

Now even though the 1LE has 3.91 gears it won't make such a big difference because the trans is also geared differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent2010 View Post
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you if you are saying that dyno numbers will markedly improve just because you switch R&P gears. If that was true, then ALL dyno tests would be run only in 1st gear, because its the lowest numerically and delivers, by a very wide margin, the most 'torque to the ground' to the rear wheels, and thus would give the highest result out of all the gears in the transmission. In real life, many cars give the best dyno numbers in 3rd or 4th gears.

Also, an engine's peak torque doesn't move in the rpm band just because you switch gears -- it just becomes available at a lower vehicle speed. Maybe that's what you meant?

Cheers,
Kent
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