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Old 11-19-2012, 04:29 PM   #103
KalCorp
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Originally Posted by rtcat600man View Post
Keep in mind that is from one dyno to another too.
The differance between the LLT and LFX bone stock is 11 HP, 323 to 312.
I am not sure there would be a 30 HP differance after the supercharger.
I could see some of the extra HP coming from the tune on the LXF. might be able to get more out of it than LLT. and the bigger Intake ports could also help with a SC. But you are right different dyno's.

But still they had a great run 12.8? damn Only makes the V6 better for all of us!

I am ready to get this IPF. Just one thing holding me back and i am looking into that now.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:13 PM   #104
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NICE JOB DUKE!!! Way to go. Make sure you check in with Gretchen to add you to the fast list.

Gretch, I think it's you correct? Please let us know if I am wrong. I hope all is well with your new build.

Thanks,

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Old 11-19-2012, 10:41 PM   #105
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I got a question on the IPF. On the Blue LLT (Det_Duke) it has 450HP on the hood. i take it that is what you think is at the crank? what was the rwhp?

Just asking because the stock LFX with IPF was getting 415 wrhp? (syscraft's) and crank would be what 515+ HP?

So the LFX is about 60+ more hp than the LLT with the IPF? :-(
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtcat600man View Post
Keep in mind that is from one dyno to another too.

The differance between the LLT and LFX bone stock is 11 HP, 323 to 312.

I am not sure there would be a 30 HP differance after the supercharger.
rtcat600man is right...you can't compare dynos...just can't.

2nd...sycraft is a manual whereas Det_Duke is an auto equipped car. It is obvious that the automatics are losing at least 20% through the drivetrain, if not 21%. 20% loss onthe stock 312 HP for an LLT is 249rwhp. I don't think I've seen but one instance on here where an auto dynoed at or over that number. Manuals on the other hand only have somewhere between a 15 - 17% loss.

So now lets do the math (and assume the dyno numbers are showing perfect drivetrain loss) . Sycraft at 415 rwhp at 16% loss is 495 crank horsepower. Det_Duke at 375rwhp with 20% loss is 470crank horsepower. With his long tubes I'm sure hes much closer to sycraft's number. (yes Det_Duke, I believe you can confidently tell people that 450HP number is a "conservative" estimate")

So there you have it.....20HP difference between the two if we assume both dynos are 100% accurate which I'm sure they aren't. The LFX may make a bit more power, but it seems with IPF's tuning the LLT is barely if any further behind.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:17 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
rtcat600man is right...you can't compare dynos...just can't.

2nd...sycraft is a manual whereas Det_Duke is an auto equipped car. It is obvious that the automatics are losing at least 20% through the drivetrain, if not 21%. 20% loss onthe stock 312 HP for an LLT is 249rwhp. I don't think I've seen but one instance on here where an auto dynoed at or over that number. Manuals on the other hand only have somewhere between a 15 - 17% loss.

So now lets do the math (and assume the dyno numbers are showing perfect drivetrain loss) . Sycraft at 415 rwhp at 16% loss is 495 crank horsepower. Det_Duke at 375rwhp with 20% loss is 470crank horsepower. With his long tubes I'm sure hes much closer to sycraft's number. (yes Det_Duke, I believe you can confidently tell people that 450HP number is a "conservative" estimate")

So there you have it.....20HP difference between the two if we assume both dynos are 100% accurate which I'm sure they aren't. The LFX may make a bit more power, but it seems with IPF's tuning the LLT is barely if any further behind.

Thank - you KMP...........you siad it the exact way I believe it is for the numbers.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:29 PM   #107
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Also his gearing may effect the dyno

M6 or an A6 with 3.91 ratio or higher is going to Dyno higher than an A6 with 3.27 ratio.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:14 PM   #108
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Maybe Brady Hoke from the Wolverines can use some of that majic this Saturday, but maybe not go bucks
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:16 PM   #109
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Also his gearing may effect the dyno

M6 or an A6 with 3.91 ratio or higher is going to Dyno higher than an A6 with 3.27 ratio.
Surprisingly, I've read that when the dyno is adjusted for the appropriate gears, often a numerically higher gear will dyno a tad lower than the same car with numerically lower gearing.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:42 PM   #110
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I am running the stock m6 rear gear which is a 3.27 ratio, I am looking at the 3.91
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:25 AM   #111
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I figured 252RWHP stock, 375 with IPF + 33 for BBK's & cats + 20 with Ice-O-Laterfor a total of 428RWHP X 18% loss is 505.4 crank HP. Give the A6 a brake there not like a 350 or 400 turbo, much more efficent now and from what I've read its 18% loss now. Also I can get 40.2 MPG @ 46 to 50 mph try that with a V8 and on the insurance bill.

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Old 11-21-2012, 12:39 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Det_Duke View Post
I figured 252RWHP stock, 375 with IPF + 33 for BBK's & cats + 20 with Ice-O-Laterfor a total of 428RWHP X 18% loss is 505.4 crank HP.
Sorry bud, but HP or RWHP isn't that easy to add up and measure when adding mods together. When adding mods on top of mods some may actually have a negative impact on power somewhere. I learned this a few yours ago also. Many gear heads here will agree. But there is no doubt you are close to or just over 400RWHP. And again nice run the other day!!
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:47 AM   #113
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Watch out come spring, lol. I might dyno it again if Livernois will give me a better price. I just go by manufacteres HP claims and add it up, i think with tires, no TC and a stall converter I could hit 11.99's. car only has 8000 miles on it so all is tight still. Plus 30 years in prototype engines and Superflow dyno's I'm close on the numbers.
DALE not BUD

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Old 11-21-2012, 01:22 AM   #114
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Here 2 more so you know its no fluke or timing error.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:25 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Det_Duke View Post
Watch out come spring, lol. I might dyno it again if Livernois will give me a better price. I just go by manufacteres HP claims and add it up, i think with tires, no TC and a stall converter I could hit 11.99's. car only has 8000 miles on it so all is tight still. Plus 30 years in prototype engines and Superflow dyno's I'm close on the numbers.
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Lol if you say so Dale. That's what most call ricer math. LT's and insulator combined will maybe give you 20 extra rwhp. Not nowhere near 53 rwhp. Just saying!!


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Old 11-21-2012, 03:22 AM   #116
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NO its called Einstein's law U tell me what it takes to move a mass of 3750 lbs 12.80 in the 1/4.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:15 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Det_Duke View Post
Watch out come spring, lol. I might dyno it again if Livernois will give me a better price. I just go by manufacteres HP claims and add it up, i think with tires, no TC and a stall converter I could hit 11.99's. car only has 8000 miles on it so all is tight still. Plus 30 years in prototype engines and Superflow dyno's I'm close on the numbers.
DALE not BUD
And manufacturers never fudge their numbers...

1) You can believe manufacturers numbers... PERIOD!
2) As Can't_C_Me pointed out, you simply can't add number together... PERIOD!
3) Tires, no TC and stall aren't going to get you to 11.99. Tires maybe .2 to .3. As for the torque converter, i've yet to see one make a difference in the V6. So I don't think you make up the .878 with those mods.

While I don't have 30 years experience with engine, I have a fair amount of real world experience on the dynos and tracks... plus I have worked with some of the top guys in the Detroit metro area and draw on their experience...
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:12 AM   #118
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I also have 5 years at U of M, was in charge of 5 dyno cells. Things just got a little heated up last night, and one thing I dont take is disrespect. I know most Co. fudge the #s I just used them as a ballpark. I had 5 years in a 70 & 1/2 Z28 that had a 427 big block, 11.50 car that I raced until Detroit Dragway closed some 20 yrs ago. The TC is realy holding this car back, it can do a lot more.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:36 AM   #119
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Jesus who cares about hp numbers. I've learned (especially on this forum) that dyno numbers amount to about as much as politicians promises.
However the track numbers from Duke are great and definitely room for improvement with the 60"

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