Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
ADM PERFORMANCE
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Forced Induction - V6

Forced Induction - V6 V6 Supercharger, turbo, nitrous discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2013, 05:39 PM   #401
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,280
Fuel Enrichment Solution

Okay, just got back from the shop with some photos

Name:  01-Fueling_Plate.jpg
Views: 578
Size:  204.6 KB

This is the fueling plate the had made. It sits right below the intake manifold like the isolator for the LLT does.

Name:  02-Assembled.jpg
Views: 566
Size:  157.1 KB

This shows it from the bottom up with the intake runners, the fuel plate and the intake manifold assmbled. The tubes take the fuel to each of the intake ports.

Name:  03-Assembled.jpg
Views: 566
Size:  188.2 KB

This is the back left corner showing the fuel manifold block (verticle black piece) that feeds the fuel rails.

Name:  04-Port_Matching_Injectors.jpg
Views: 568
Size:  185.0 KB

This is a close up to show the fuel inlets. The point straight down at 90%. This is the single port set up, but you can get dual ports to run meth or N20 in addition to the fuel. Notices the port maching they did. You can't even tell where the two pieces butt each other.

Name:  05-Fuel_Manifold.jpg
Views: 570
Size:  133.0 KB

This is a better shot of the distribution system. Again, the black piece (hard to see) is the fuel manifold. The bottom line is the supply line.

Name:  06-Driverside.jpg
Views: 570
Size:  573.5 KB

Now we get to the pictures of it mounted. This is it from the driver's side.

Name:  07-Passangerside.jpg
Views: 574
Size:  724.4 KB

And this is the passanger side.

Name:  08-Solenoid.jpg
Views: 571
Size:  652.8 KB

This is the back of the passanger side showing the fuel solenoid. This is mounted to the fueling plate, so you disconnect the piping/wiring and it comes right off with the intake manifold and fuel plate. That makes it easy if you want to change the pills in the fuel nozzles.

Name:  09-Fuel_Supply.jpg
Views: 572
Size:  612.2 KB

This is a close up of the fuel manifold. You can see they extended the bolt that holds the HPFP cover so that piece can be retained (cuts down on the noise). It all fits back there snuggly.

Name:  10-Oil_Filler_Extension.jpg
Views: 564
Size:  703.7 KB

If you want to keep the engine cover you have to extend the oil filler cap and also the post on the driver's side. Since we were still working on wiring I didn't get a picture of it with the cover back on, but it fits and you wouldn't know it had the extra fuel system unless you looked real hard.

Now for getting it running. At first we were going to trigger the solenoid based on RPM, but the signals we could get just weren't very reliable. So, we have a dual relay that we are going to hook up to the Meth/H20 controller and go boost reference. If that doesn't work then we'll try something else.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 05:42 PM   #402
scrming
Red Brick of Vengeance!
 
scrming's Avatar
 
Drives: 12 Second Brick
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: at my pulpit
Posts: 7,708
wow... simply wow!!!
scrming is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 05:46 PM   #403
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,280
We have also installed the boost solenoids on each turbo and re-adjusted the WG actuators. Hopefully that will get rid of the boost spike. That's the good news. The bad news is that we can't seem get around the throttle position issue. We have been able to rule out that it isn't controlled by MPH. It appears to be related to RPM and EFI just doesn't have those tables available at this time. They are working on it though.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 05:51 PM   #404
KMPrenger


 
KMPrenger's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 ABM LT/RS, 06 Chevy Colorado
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
Posts: 9,036
Easily biggest and best build on a 5th gen V6 camaro to date. When this is all said and done, the entire Camaro5 community needs to see this beast. Front page stuff here baby lol.

Good work Derek!
__________________
Custom Magnaflow Exhaust, Vararam intake, MACE Ported Manifold, RX Ported TB, "Black Ice" manifold insulator, Elite Catch Can, ZL1 repro wheels, ZL1 Springs, DRL Harness, Front GM GFX, Heritage grill, Street Scene lower grill, NLP Spoiler, ZL1 rockers and much more!
KMPrenger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 05:55 PM   #405
hunterv6
Always bet on Black
 
hunterv6's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 turbo LS, 2012 f 150,
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Concord Nc
Posts: 1,899
Wow will have to put that on my list.


Sent from my iPad2 on space mountain
__________________
<font color=#0066cc>http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283263</font>
hunterv6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #406
BaylorCamaro
AutoX is for fast DRIVERS
 
BaylorCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 ZL1
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kemah, TX
Posts: 4,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Easily biggest and best build on a 5th gen V6 camaro to date. When this is all said and done, the entire Camaro5 community needs to see this beast. Front page stuff here baby lol.

Good work Derek!


That's amazing!

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S III using telekinesis.
__________________
557 rwhp / 525 rwtq (PFADT Headers & Cats/ Roto-Fab Intake / Ported LSA TB)
Automotive YouTube Channel / Camaro5 Fest V CamaroCross / Build Thread
BaylorCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 06:07 PM   #407
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,280
Thanks guys. And if this works out, he wants to build one for the LLT. I've still got my old Black Iceolater in the shed, so he'll have a pattern to go by.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread

Last edited by GretchenGotGrowl; 03-09-2013 at 07:21 AM.
GretchenGotGrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 06:09 PM   #408
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,280
BTW, if anyone has an old stock torque converter laying around, shoot me a PM. We are trying to get a multi-disk TC developed for the 6L50E and need one for the R&D. I could send them my FSI, but then my car would be down for a while and I still want to get to the track in the next couple of weeks.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 06:26 PM   #409
lscamaro


 
lscamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 CGM Camaro LS A6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 9,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
BTW, if anyone has an old stock torque converter laying around, shoot me a PM. We are trying to get a multi-disk TC developed for the 6L50E and need one for the R&D. I could send them my FSI, but then my car would be down for a while and I still want to get to the track in the next couple of weeks.
This build is insane! If the fueling works, this could be the answer we have been looking for... Well if we can tune the LLT. I can't wait to see what an LFX could do with more fuel since those can easily be tuned!!

About the torque converter, check with v6owner. I think I saw him selling one a little while ago, he might still have it
__________________

Click Picture for Build Thread
lscamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 06:49 PM   #410
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by lscamaro View Post
This build is insane! If the fueling works, this could be the answer we have been looking for... Well if we can tune the LLT. I can't wait to see what an LFX could do with more fuel since those can easily be tuned!!

About the torque converter, check with v6owner. I think I saw him selling one a little while ago, he might still have it
Thanks for the lead. I just sent him a PM.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 06:52 PM   #411
lscamaro


 
lscamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 CGM Camaro LS A6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 9,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
Thanks for the lead. I just sent him a PM.
No problem
__________________

Click Picture for Build Thread
lscamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 07:19 PM   #412
V6owner
Cedar Creek Woodshop
 
V6owner's Avatar
 
Drives: One Badass 1LE
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Rosenberg, TX
Posts: 2,201
That is gorgeous
__________________
2014 Black 2SS/RS 1LE
V6owner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 07:21 PM   #413
Can't_C_Me
Don't Sleep on My V6
 
Can't_C_Me's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 1LT M6 TT/ NEW 2013 Malibu 1LT
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Norcross, GA
Posts: 3,397
This thing looks amazing and a simpler solution than I thought. If this helps there is no doubt Vince and IPF will be able to tune the LLT's better. Because instead of the LLT running out of fuel it will have to much and would be easier to dial down the flow.

Question Derek, are you using same size injectors all around or small, medium, then larger in the back. As thats where the fuel isn't pumped in fast enough?

Because if many that don't know the issue is that the back cylinders are the ones running out of fuel when we crank up the HP.
__________________
Can't_C_Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 07:36 PM   #414
JohnnyBfromPeoria

 
JohnnyBfromPeoria's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 LS M6, Black
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,037
Mother of God. This is going to be cool(er).

Equal length fuel lines should do the trick as long as you're getting equal flow under pressure from the metering block. For the new ones, I should say. After I reread it, I saw you were refering to trying to compensate for the stock system.

John B.
__________________
12 LS M6, IPF S/C, ASA GT-5 wheels, VMax PTB
1995 Mitsubishi Montero SR
1987 Dodge Raider Turbo Project
1986 Mitsubishi Montero 2.4l FI Transplant
JohnnyBfromPeoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 07:40 PM   #415
hunterv6
Always bet on Black
 
hunterv6's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 turbo LS, 2012 f 150,
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Concord Nc
Posts: 1,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
Thanks guys. And if this works out, he wants to build one for the LLT. I've still got my old Black Iceolater in the shed, so he'll have a pattern to go buy.
Put me on that list for the llt.


Sent from my iPad2 on space mountain
__________________
<font color=#0066cc>http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283263</font>
hunterv6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:35 PM   #416
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Can't_C_Me View Post
This thing looks amazing and a simpler solution than I thought. If this helps there is no doubt Vince and IPF will be able to tune the LLT's better. Because instead of the LLT running out of fuel it will have to much and would be easier to dial down the flow.

Question Derek, are you using same size injectors all around or small, medium, then larger in the back. As thats where the fuel isn't pumped in fast enough?

Because if many that don't know the issue is that the back cylinders are the ones running out of fuel when we crank up the HP.
So the plan for tuning it should work for the LLT. We are basically using Power Enhancement (PE) tuning for WOT...the same thing we tried with Vince. We are going to turn this bad boy on and let it go rich and then back off the PE fueling from the DI system until we get the AFR back where we want it.

We are using the same size pills all the way around, but you could set it up with different pill sizes for each runner. Right now we have 14s in it, but we may have to go back to 10s because that's like running an 84 pill on a nitrous setup. It may be more fuel than we need and we can't back off the DI system enough. We'll see, but we just couldn't get 6 10 pills before Aaron goes overseas week after next.

It should go on the dyno next Thr. for tuning. I would be neat to try this fuel plate on a NA car just to see if there is any TQ improvement. That's effectively an 1" increase in runner length. Might end up being just as much gain as the isolater has shown for the LLT.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread

Last edited by GretchenGotGrowl; 03-09-2013 at 07:26 AM.
GretchenGotGrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:39 PM   #417
nikos30
HT5 EastSide
 
nikos30's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NJ/PA
Posts: 1,536
dam 502 rwhp??

OyaGotGrowl!
__________________
nikos30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:41 PM   #418
MyWorld
 
MyWorld's Avatar
 
Drives: RJT 2LT RS
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 250
This is so beautiful.
MyWorld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 08:43 PM   #419
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBfromPeoria View Post
Mother of God. This is going to be cool(er).

Equal length fuel lines should do the trick as long as you're getting equal flow under pressure from the metering block. For the new ones, I should say. After I reread it, I saw you were refering to trying to compensate for the stock system.

John B.
Yeah, a single fuel rail on each side would probably work better, but they are trying to keep costs down so it's affordable. We seem to have the biggest issue with the rear cylinders, so those having the shortest fuel lines will actually help with that. The system won't be pressurized until the solenoid opens, so it will take a few milliseconds before it fully pressurizes. We'll just have to bring it on at a particular boost and back off the DI fueling in the PE tables. But I guess you suspected that from the last sentence. Just wanted to make sure everyone understood that we think the different line lengths won't be an issue.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 09:36 PM   #420
JohnnyBfromPeoria

 
JohnnyBfromPeoria's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 LS M6, Black
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,037
Makes sense. In my haste to post, I forgot that the block was on the back of the intake, so as you said, the shorter lines to the back are actually doing this for you.

C'mon, Thursday.

John B.
__________________
12 LS M6, IPF S/C, ASA GT-5 wheels, VMax PTB
1995 Mitsubishi Montero SR
1987 Dodge Raider Turbo Project
1986 Mitsubishi Montero 2.4l FI Transplant
JohnnyBfromPeoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2013, 10:42 PM   #421
KMPrenger


 
KMPrenger's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 ABM LT/RS, 06 Chevy Colorado
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
Posts: 9,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl View Post
...It would be neat to try this fuel block on a NA car just to see if there is any TQ improvement. That's effectively an 1" increase in runner length. Might end up being just as much gain as the isolater has shown for the LLT.
I've been wondering for a long time if anyone out there would try that on the LFX. I still think it is worth a shot.

They say the 1" is good for low end torque but not so much for high end. Maybe that is true, but then I'd think maybe something like a half inch to 3/4 inch might be the ticket for a happy medium.
__________________
Custom Magnaflow Exhaust, Vararam intake, MACE Ported Manifold, RX Ported TB, "Black Ice" manifold insulator, Elite Catch Can, ZL1 repro wheels, ZL1 Springs, DRL Harness, Front GM GFX, Heritage grill, Street Scene lower grill, NLP Spoiler, ZL1 rockers and much more!
KMPrenger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 04:21 AM   #422
Ventmaster

 
Ventmaster's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro RS 1LT M6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,532
Amazing and subscribed...

And a way to deal with that pesky carbon build up on the valves!
__________________
Airaid CAI, Rx ported TB, Mace ported IM, JBA shorty headers, Richmond 3.73, Borla touring axleback, Hurst short throw, NH-SS fix, IDEALG clutch m/c, SS struts/springs, Spohn trailing arms, Pfadt Racing sways, Pedders radius arm & rear subframe bushing inserts, 2LT gauge pkg.TSW Nurburgs. IPF S/C
Ventmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 05:04 AM   #423
rtcat600man
having FUN now 13.66@101
 
rtcat600man's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2LT IOM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Clarkston, Michigan
Posts: 7,689
Fantastic looking set-up, can't wait to hear how well you do at the track.
__________________
rtcat600man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 07:31 AM   #424
GretchenGotGrowl


 
GretchenGotGrowl's Avatar
 
Drives: `12 LFX/`11 EB F-150/`13 Sonic RS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 5,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtcat600man View Post
Fantastic looking set-up, can't wait to hear how well you do at the track.
I can't wait to get it to the track. We're still having issues with the launch. The reason we are asking about the stock torque converter is Ryan got a reall good one from Circle D and they are willing to make a multi-disk for the 6L50E if they have a stock one for R&D. It we get me a looser stall and have the ability to lock it in 4th gear then we can probably keep my high RPM performance and take a little bit of the low-end launch issue off the table. EFI will eventually figure out the table(s) we are missing but it may take a while. This will probably be a quicker solution.

If you guys haven't seen, Ryan pulled a 10.87 last night in his NA SS. We are at similar power levels but he's running a 4000 stall.
__________________
EFR Twin Turbo LFX-GPI Tune-ZL1 fuel pump-10:1 CR forged pistons-3.45 gear-Meth Injection-BMR Trailing Arms, Bushings & Sway Bars-CircleD 4000 Stall-GPI Fuel Enrichment System
647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
Build Thread
GretchenGotGrowl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 09:48 AM   #425
TJ91
:chevy:
 
TJ91's Avatar
 
Drives: 2LT/RS
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,475
Don't even know what to say. In awe

And 10 second run on an NA SS?! Wow
Can't wait to see what this LFX puts out
Not many people can say they were LLT and LFX pioneers lol
__________________
CAMARO
Consult your doctor before taking Camaro
Side effects include Sudden increase in Heart Rate, Insomnia and occasional hallucinations
If you experience Permagrin exceeding 4 hours after taking Camaro, seek immediate Camaro5 Help
CAMARO Bringing excitment back into the Garage
TJ91 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
holy crap!, twin turbo lfx, v6 fuel system

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.