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Old 04-04-2013, 10:26 PM   #501
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700 to the crank Almost 600 to the wheels wtf!!!!!!!!! I'm in awe once the package and details on how to achieve similar numbers please let us know all I need is 500 to wheels more than enough for me to play with at the track

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Old 04-05-2013, 12:38 AM   #502
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....gretchen is cheating :(
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:40 AM   #503
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How many ever thought we'd ask Vince or IPF to REMOVE fueling from the tune???
What's funny is i was just reading the bulletin that Ford sent to the dealership about what mods to look for on the 3.5 EcoBoost when try to determine cause of a failure, to possibly deny the claim... came across this item:

Additional fuel injection devices.

The high pressure fuel system used for the EcoBoost engine will not support additional fuel flow beyond what the factory calibration requests. Inspect the engine for an additional aftermarket injector(s) located somewhere in the induction system to provided increased fuel flow.


Immediately thought of you! LOL! On a side note that item is in fact false... the 3.5 does in fact have enough fuel for extra HP!
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:30 AM   #504
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What's funny is i was just reading the bulletin that Ford sent to the dealership about what mods to look for on the 3.5 EcoBoost when try to determine cause of a failure, to possibly deny the claim... came across this item:

Additional fuel injection devices.

The high pressure fuel system used for the EcoBoost engine will not support additional fuel flow beyond what the factory calibration requests. Inspect the engine for an additional aftermarket injector(s) located somewhere in the induction system to provided increased fuel flow.


Immediately thought of you! LOL! On a side note that item is in fact false... the 3.5 does in fact have enough fuel for extra HP!
Do you think GM will void the warranty on my Camaro now.



J/K. It is amazing how paranoid they are about modding EcoBoosts, but they keep looking for things that aren't needed to get nice power out of them (paint on actuator arms, bleeders on boost lines, etc...).
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:38 AM   #505
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Do you think GM will void the warranty on my Camaro now.



J/K. It is amazing how paranoid they are about modding EcoBoosts, but they keep looking for things that aren't needed to get nice power out of them (paint on actuator arms, bleeders on boost lines, etc...).
well, in theory though, it should only be your powertrain warranty... Rest of the car should in fact still be covered...

As for the EBs... yeah, apparently a tuner or two popped some EB's early on and then took them to the dealer to get them fixed under warranty... Ford quickly caught on and wasn't too happy about it... hence the bulletin...
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:44 AM   #506
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588 on 93 octane with meth, probably maxed there. I will say I feel good about a 560-570 rwhp tune daily driven on 93 octane.

Boost spike is only 2 psi now and the boost creep up top is not very much at all. Very consistent boost through the run.

Boost controller is on 85%.

Here is the great part, I am running the tune I had in the car for 50% on boost controller (13-14psi). So with the boost controller on 85%, I didn't have to touch the pe table much at all in the tune, the .014 jets in the fuel plate worked great! AND we can go up from there with the jets when Derrick gets used to this power....LOL.

With the PE table changes, I only leaned it out about a half a point on commanded afr, and the fuel rail pressure is pretty solid at 2000 psi which is very close to commanded rail pressure.

I did find out the factory injectors are 109 lb/hr, and we are only seeing about 50-55% duty cycle. Once again, plenty of room to grow.

I think on race gas, and more aggressive timing we could see 600 -610 rwhp.

On Derricks tune that he ran at the track, it was likely about 500 rwhp, he was trapping the same mph as me in the 1/8th and 1000 ft. I ran 10.87 at 124 in my car, so with 60-80 more rwhp, 10s should be cake.
Just caught the part in bold. Wow! I guess that puts to rest any doubt about needing an injector upgrade.

BTW, how much you spraying on your car. Love how you never give me a chance to beat you...always one step ahead.
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1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:46 AM   #507
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well, in theory though, it should only be your powertrain warranty... Rest of the car should in fact still be covered...

As for the EBs... yeah, apparently a tuner or two popped some EB's early on and then took them to the dealer to get them fixed under warranty... Ford quickly caught on and wasn't too happy about it... hence the bulletin...
Just in case a radio knob falls off or something.
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1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:04 AM   #508
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Just in case a radio knob falls off or something.
Well when you hit the boost that could happen
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:17 AM   #509
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Just caught the part in bold. Wow! I guess that puts to rest any doubt about needing an injector upgrade.

BTW, how much you spraying on your car. Love how you never give me a chance to beat you...always one step ahead.
Just a lil 150 shot. Havent dynoed it to see where its at.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:50 PM   #510
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Lock the converter if its the triple disc upgrade and your way over 600 at the wheels now.

We had to have Vince take fuel away for myworlds LLT EFR build as well and were using a similar system with his from Julieo.

This car is a deep 10 sec car with the driver mod tweaked......(and it could go quicker.....my personal C5 is slightly less whp and runs 10.60's NA and a little spray into the 9's).

Awesome job Rhino & Gretch!!!!!!!

We are shipping forged pistons now for those wanting forged.
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:37 PM   #511
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Made a few more pulls w/ meth and about the same. It did pull a bit of timing, but our IATs are higher today, too.

Looks like a good safe tune. Want to set it up so I run on the street at 45-50% duty cycle for the waste gates with the fuel enrichmemt off. At the track we turn the duty cycle to 85% and set the fuel enrichment to 50%. No changing tunes at all.

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647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:39 PM   #512
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Made a few more pulls w/ meth and about the same. It did pull a bit of timing, but our IATs are higher today, too.

Looks like a good safe tune. Want to set it up so I run on the street at 45-50% duty cycle for the waste gates with the fuel enrichmemt off. At the track we turn the duty cycle to 85% and set the fuel enrichment to 50%. No changing tunes at all.

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very cool! Looking forward to seeing some track videos!!!
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:20 PM   #513
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Derek looking awesome you guys are doing a great job. But stop wasting time on the dyno and load the car on the trailer and meet me here



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Old 04-05-2013, 03:12 PM   #514
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Derek looking awesome you guys are doing a great job. But stop wasting time on the dyno and load the car on the trailer and meet me here



Attachment 493915
Wish I could man.

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1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:30 PM   #515
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AWESOME jon on the numbers.......CONGRATS. Can't wait to hear how it tears up the track.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:56 PM   #516
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Looks like New Jersey's version of Pony Wars (held at the South Georgia Motorsports Park in Valdosta, GA), except you actually get a real cash prize and a trophy. Not that a gift certificate is a bad thing, mind you, but it's no trophy and cash.

Have fun out there!
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:38 PM   #517
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CRAZY DUDE!

Thats some serious power!

I'm guessing a built manual tranny would put down a bit over 600 whp. These engines are sick...
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:50 PM   #518
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CRAZY DUDE!

Thats some serious power!

I'm guessing a built manual tranny would put down a bit over 600 whp. These engines are sick...
I would estimate 625 or so. I also wouldn't recommend it on the stock clutch.
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647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:14 PM   #519
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Well, done for the day. Spent the first hour or so cleaning up the tune and making it reliable. We only saw about a 10-12 HP drop without Meth, so we are good there. We can go back and forth on the settings and be within 2-3 HP every time. Our IATs where pretty high and we weren't letting it cool down between pulls, so no doubt we could hit 600 RWHP if we wanted to. Just wasn't the goal today. The track will prove we are making the power.

As for the street/track setup...that worked like a charm. I can run 50% duty cycle with no fuel enrichment and it runs a bit rich. 55% is nice and 60% is pretty agressive. These give me right around 500 RWHP. Change the duty cycle to 80-90% and turn the fuel enrichment controller to 4 and it is uppper 580s RWHP. No swapping tunes.

We are still having the issue with the throttle opening up. Ryan made a few adjustments and it looks better to me, but still not what we want. The 4000 stall converter will most likely solve the problem, but it would be nice to be able to do it in the tune. I really don't think many people will want to run that loose a converter. Oh well, we'll get the new single disk next week and know for sure.

Boost is looking good, with only a small spike at 50% duty cycle (was ~6psi before) and about 2psi at 90%. Had a bit of issue that seems to be created by the longer runners with the fuel plate. During cold start up we would start making quite a bit of boost. They took that out (I quess a lot like Vince does with the Ghost Cam???). Then we had some issues with fuel trims being off after you pull out of it with fuel enrichment. That's pretty much taken care of; certainly good enough for the track. Other than that, it seemed to go really well. Kudo's to Aaron for doing all the math and engineering on this. He hit it nail right on the head on everything (even if he says it was luck).

Now for the reality part of this. We don't make any more boost at 90% duty cycle than 80%. There are a lot of things that can cause this. What what I gather these particular turbos are good to about 21-23 psi and start to become ineffecient. Figure 2 psi loss from the intercooler and we get 19-21 psi max. Well, we top out right about 20 psi, so it is probably the limit for these guys. Another indication of that is that they are rated at about 450 HP each, but 750 or so together. My intercooler is rated at 750 HP, too. Finally, we think we have gone as far as we can with the stock heads. Basically, we are the limits of a lot of things and there won't be any easy mods we can do to make much more power. Now we have to focus on what will make it as fast as possible with the power we have. Maybe the LF3 heads will bolt right on and flow better than what we have. I for one can wait to find out. ~600 RWHP will keep me happy for a while.

Final thing, our IATs were really good at around 500 RWHP, but they are creaping up fast now. I know the back-to-back pulls didn't help, but we hit 150* at least once so that's not helping much. We can spray a little water with the meth to help that, but without a better intercooler and getting turbos back into a better part of their compressor map that's going to be an issue for anyone that goes this route. If you haven't started your 600 RWHP build but plan to, get a 1000 HP intercooler!
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647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:45 PM   #520
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Posted the dyno sheet over on the LFX Dyno thread.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233394
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647 RWHP & 726 RWTQ @18.5 psi on 93 Octane (locked converter)
1/8 mile -- 7.158 @ 102.10 (20psi); old build
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:00 PM   #521
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:39 PM   #522
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speechless can't wait to see it on the track

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Old 04-06-2013, 10:12 AM   #523
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Hey Derrick you should try and make it our for the Georgia 1/2 Mile Private Runway Shootout. Here is the link http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...94#post6389894

Also a video of last years.

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Old 04-06-2013, 10:59 AM   #524
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Old 04-06-2013, 03:52 PM   #525
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Posted the dyno sheet over on the LFX Dyno thread.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233394
Hey bud.

I'm a bit confused with that dyno sheet and how it starts at 4,000 rpm.

It seems to suggest that your not making much power (relatively speaking...it is still a lot of power) until 4,500 rpm, when in reality I would have thought that your torque would have been spread over a broader rpm range.

Does this dyno reading just make it seem that way, or is that how your car is set up? I'm guessing due to the tuning, and the nature of the turbos that instead of making peak TQ at low RPMs...like an EcoBoost engine...yours instead tops out at higher rpms?

Don't take this the wrong way..I'm not taking anything away from your success...it is incredible. I'm just curious is all!
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