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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 03-04-2013, 09:14 AM   #276
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The fact that an LS7 Camaro concept was built showed they at least considered it. We all know what an LS7 Camaro could do. We see what the 1LE can do. We know GM knows what it can do. That's the frustrating part in my mind. It would be an awesome track car. Probably one the closest thing to the original Z/28 we can get in a modern car bu GM doesn't bother to build it.
And that is why half of me thinks a Z28 will not be built on the 5th gen. If it was a LS7 1LE that car would tear up race tracks. I really think though it would come close to outperforming the ZL1. The ZL1 is supposed to be the ultimate camaro, the top of the line. if a Z28 comes along and offers better performance for less the price, why would people consider theZL1.

Just for smiles and giggles lets do some outside the box thinking.

Imagine if GM decided they were going to stuff the LS7 in the CTS. and this LS7 CTS would outperform the CTS-V in certain areas and cost about 5-7 grand less than the V. You don't think that would steal sales from the CTS-V?
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:54 AM   #277
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Undoubtedly it will not be the 505hp version found in the Corvette. My guess that it would be detuned to 485-ish so as to not be as capable as the ZL1. And guys, don't expect to get a LS7 powered camaro for any less than 50k. That engine is too expensive to not be...it is about 3k more expensive than a supercharged LSA..go figure.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:07 AM   #278
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Undoubtedly it will not be the 505hp version found in the Corvette. My guess that it would be detuned to 485-ish so as to not be as capable as the ZL1. And guys, don't expect to get a LS7 powered camaro for any less than 50k. That engine is too expensive to not be...it is about 3k more expensive than a supercharged LSA..go figure.
and at around 50K its pretty dang close the ZL1 in price do you see where I think it could be an internal sales problem?
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:54 AM   #279
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And that is why half of me thinks a Z28 will not be built on the 5th gen. If it was a LS7 1LE that car would tear up race tracks. I really think though it would come close to outperforming the ZL1. The ZL1 is supposed to be the ultimate camaro, the top of the line. if a Z28 comes along and offers better performance for less the price, why would people consider theZL1.

Just for smiles and giggles lets do some outside the box thinking.

Imagine if GM decided they were going to stuff the LS7 in the CTS. and this LS7 CTS would outperform the CTS-V in certain areas and cost about 5-7 grand less than the V. You don't think that would steal sales from the CTS-V?
The Z06 is almost as capable as the ZR1 around a track and can be priced within a few thousand dollars. I don't see any panic due to that.

The reason I don't see an LS7 Camaro is not because it will almost run with a ZL1 but because GM will not allow an LS7 to be dropped into a Camaro. That is a Corvette engine and GM won't let the Camaro get it. Just think of what an LS6 4th gen Z/28 could have done. It took until Ford releases the 5.0 to beat an LS1 Camaro in a straight line. An LS6 4th gen would probably run with a current SS and GT.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:08 PM   #280
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Undoubtedly it will not be the 505hp version found in the Corvette. My guess that it would be detuned to 485-ish so as to not be as capable as the ZL1. And guys, don't expect to get a LS7 powered camaro for any less than 50k. That engine is too expensive to not be...it is about 3k more expensive than a supercharged LSA..go figure.
If that would be the case, then they might as well not built it at all. I don't see why they would detune the LS7 as that would mean they would have to change stuff around and re-validate the engine and that isn't going to happen.

Crate LS7 is pretty expensive but I doubt the price for an LS7 in a car is the same as the price they charge for a crate engine.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:36 PM   #281
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That is just the way they price vehicles...take the price difference between the 2LT and the 2SS...you don't get a credit for the engine and tranny..the difference between the two is 8k+ they charge you for the LS3 and TR6060. The same thing will happen to the LS7 camaro, it will be +14k for the engine plus any other performance upgrades. That is exactly why I disagree with the use of the LS7 "Z/28" I can not for the life of me justify buying a Camaro for upwards of 50K. I could fully restore a '68 camaro and put and updated interior and LS motor in it for less and it not depreciate in value driving it off the lot LOL
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:16 PM   #282
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That is just the way they price vehicles...take the price difference between the 2LT and the 2SS...you don't get a credit for the engine and tranny..the difference between the two is 8k+ they charge you for the LS3 and TR6060. The same thing will happen to the LS7 camaro, it will be +14k for the engine plus any other performance upgrades. That is exactly why I disagree with the use of the LS7 "Z/28" I can not for the life of me justify buying a Camaro for upwards of 50K. I could fully restore a '68 camaro and put and updated interior and LS motor in it for less and it not depreciate in value driving it off the lot LOL
Say what???
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:23 PM   #283
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Say what???
Same here. Read it and didn't know how to reply.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:50 PM   #284
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Bottom line, all things have come together to produce a Z28/LS7. If they don't do it it would be a crying shame.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:21 PM   #285
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Bottom line, all things have come together to produce a Z28/LS7. If they don't do it it would be a crying shame.
I don't see how it would work. An LS7 Z/28 would be priced right below the ZL1, so unless they do something to bump the cost of the ZL1, there isn't any room for a Z/28. Not to mention, GM isn't going to use a top level Corvette motor in the Camaro. (Yes, I know the Camaro got the 350 before the Corvette but that's ancient history.) An LS6 Camaro would have embarrass the GT but it wasn't built.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:28 PM   #286
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...bottom line is pitting model against model, Z/28 and ZL1. They are not going to do it, using the Z/28 emblem. Ain't gonna happen. Too close for comfort, there's more than sales numbers or market shares to bring this forward. There's a mindset, culture, and belief behind the brand to prevent this at this current time.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:00 PM   #287
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Pricing, and Positioning, a Z/28...

Given: An LS7 and an LSA cost about the same, in the crate.

Problem: How to price a Z/28 below the ZL1:

Z/28 BASE Content

- Use 1SS/1LE for content, which includes HD Tremec/HD Axles/Forged 20s

- Substitute "wet" LS7 for LS3...weight-neutral

- Add ZL1 Rear Diff/Carrier...20 extra lb.

- Add ZL1 6-piston Fr. Calipers/Rotors...weight-neutral

- Batch-build with 1LS (non-6-way power) Cloth front seats + brackets...save 10 lb.

- Substitute Michelin PSS 285/305 tires...save 8 lb.

Solution: Z/28 weighs 200 lb. less than ZL1...220 off the nose...@ less than $50Gs (or 10%+ less than Base ZL1, or = BOSS LS)

- 2SS (inc. 6-way power seats) available as option
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:26 PM   #288
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...we need an upside down horse emoticon....:wink:. The choir duly recognizes the gentlemen addressing the argument to bring it <Z/28> to market. It makes sense from our standpoint. The product as presented is viable. The culture, mindset, and philosophy within the Corp will not introduce it in this Zeta form. There is more behind this hiatus than we can understand. Otherwise it would have come to fruition. Patience....it's only a matter of time....but as Einstein theorized, time is the fourth dimension, and a bit hard to understand.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:43 PM   #289
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And that's a shame.

On another note, all the 6Gen renderings I've seen are...UGLY!
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:40 PM   #290
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...bottom line is pitting model against model, Z/28 and ZL1. They are not going to do it, using the Z/28 emblem. Ain't gonna happen. Too close for comfort, there's more than sales numbers or market shares to bring this forward. There's a mindset, culture, and belief behind the brand to prevent this at this current time.
I think there are two main problems against a 5th gen Z/28.

1) GM doesn't want to put top tier Corvette engines in the Camaro.
2) GM wanted to build a GT500 fighter and wasn't expecting the horsepower ass kicking Ford served up. But even then, GM left the horsepower alone and decided the Camaro was now a track car and quit the horsepower wars. Once again, because they use a less capable engine from another car, leaving a more potent engine in the Corvette. Can't step on toes now can they?
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:51 AM   #291
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And that's a shame.

On another note, all the 6Gen renderings I've seen are...UGLY!
That means they're doing a good job of hiding this one. I was actually disappointed at how close the magazine renderings were to the actual C7. I love how the C7 turned out but it would have been nice for it to be a surprise. Don't know why Car and Driver even bothered with the 2nd gen rehash comment when the rendering looks nothing like one. Pretty sure Tom Peters said as long as he has a say the old corporate GM fascia will not end up on the new Camaro. I've been looking for that comment for a good while today.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:55 AM   #292
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I think there are two main problems against a 5th gen Z/28.

1) GM doesn't want to put top tier Corvette engines in the Camaro.
2) GM wanted to build a GT500 fighter and wasn't expecting the horsepower ass kicking Ford served up. But even then, GM left the horsepower alone and decided the Camaro was now a track car and quit the horsepower wars. Once again, because they use a less capable engine from another car, leaving a more potent engine in the Corvette. Can't step on toes now can they?
I would expect a ZL1 horsepower and price increase and an LS7 Z28 (If they decide to use the name) landing in price just under $50,000. That would give the separation needed and would be a smart game plan if GM is really in it to win it. I believe they are.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:19 AM   #293
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The Z06 is almost as capable as the ZR1 around a track and can be priced within a few thousand dollars. I don't see any panic due to that.

The reason I don't see an LS7 Camaro is not because it will almost run with a ZL1 but because GM will not allow an LS7 to be dropped into a Camaro. That is a Corvette engine and GM won't let the Camaro get it. Just think of what an LS6 4th gen Z/28 could have done. It took until Ford releases the 5.0 to beat an LS1 Camaro in a straight line. An LS6 4th gen would probably run with a current SS and GT.
Sometime during the 2000 production run most ls powered f-body's started showing up from the factory with ls6 intakes, then somtime in the 2001 model year, ls powerd cars started showing up with ls6 casting numbered blocks randomly, then in 2002, majority of the SS and ws6 cars had what showed ls6 powerd numbers on dynomometers. So vette technology does filter down to the f-body, whether its anounced or not, and the LS7 could very well end up in a camaro at the end of the 5th gen. Stranger things have happened!
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:51 PM   #294
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I would expect a ZL1 horsepower and price increase and an LS7 Z28 (If they decide to use the name) landing in price just under $50,000. That would give the separation needed and would be a smart game plan if GM is really in it to win it. I believe they are.
I doubt we will see a power bump from the ZL1. That would require a rework of the LSA or dropping in the LS9.

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Sometime during the 2000 production run most ls powered f-body's started showing up from the factory with ls6 intakes, then somtime in the 2001 model year, ls powerd cars started showing up with ls6 casting numbered blocks randomly, then in 2002, majority of the SS and ws6 cars had what showed ls6 powerd numbers on dynomometers. So vette technology does filter down to the f-body, whether its anounced or not, and the LS7 could very well end up in a camaro at the end of the 5th gen. Stranger things have happened!
I get that the Camaro started ending up with LS6 parts but I'm talking about a full spec LS6.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:11 PM   #295
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I doubt we will see a power bump from the ZL1. That would require a rework of the LSA or dropping in the LS9.



I get that the Camaro started ending up with LS6 parts but I'm talking about a full spec LS6.
when the 02ss and ws6 were putting 350+rwhp down that pretty much means they were on par with the ls6.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:13 PM   #296
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when the 02ss and ws6 were putting 350+rwhp down that pretty much means they were on par with the ls6.
The best LS1 dyno charts I have seen are in the 300-315 range which would be 350-370 fly horsepower.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:06 PM   #297
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And that's a shame.

On another note, all the 6Gen renderings I've seen are...UGLY!
...agreed mein herr, and a brilliant man once upon a time made that epiphany happen for me here on this board, and as Col. Kurtz said, it was like I was shot with a diamond inbetween my eyes....it became clear to me why they will not pursuit both models right now.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:35 AM   #298
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The best LS1 dyno charts I have seen are in the 300-315 range which would be 350-370 fly horsepower.
Your right, my memory was inflating the numbers kind of like fishing stories.

My apologies
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:52 AM   #299
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Anyways, back to the 5th gen.

Isn't the New York show coming up?
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:53 AM   #300
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Speaking of New York...

...perhaps there's something we've been waiting for, contained in this:

http://autoblog.ca/reader/news/gm-co...d-new-cadillac

"Besides the new Chevrolet SS sports sedan that we already know about, the other four world premieres from GM are a "refreshed" version of the 2014 Chevrolet Camaro, which the company says "advances the design and performance attributes that have made it the most popular sports car under $50,000 for three consecutive years" ...
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