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Old 10-29-2012, 11:23 PM   #1
Mayhem Matt
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Exclamation 67 Camaro Mild 327 engine build help!!

I have a fresh built 327 small block in my 67 Camaro and need a little advanced help from people with good engine and carb knowledge...

Here are the specs on the 327 build....

10:5:1 Compression running 91 octane
Factory forged steel bottom end (Crank and Rods)
.020 under on the crank
bored .030 over
3.25 on the stroke
11:1 forged dome top pistons
2.7 dome cc
Gap to fit Molly rings
.016 on the deck clearance
.039 felpro head gaskets
So .055 total deck clearance
High volume oil pump
Comp cams flat tappet hydraulic 292h cam
Cam specs http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...x?csid=81&sb=2
64cc camel hump heads with 5 angle valve job
1.94int 1.6 exh SS valves
1.5 ratio full aluminum roller rockers
High rise dual plane intake manifold
Holley 670 street avenger dual feed carb
Holley high volume fuel pump
HEI billet distributor
MSD plug wires
Accel racing plugs gapped at .45
Electric fan
Electric water pump
1 3/4 long tube headman headers
2.5" H Pipe dual exhaust
40 series Flowmasters
Every bolt in and on the engine is ARP and torqued to spec
Cam is broke in proper with 20mins at 2000rpms and 10mins changing RPMs between 1800 and 2300
Initial timing set at 12 degrees and timing is around 36 degrees with vacuum adv plugged in at 3000rpms
I'm running a Borg Warner World Class 5-speed manual trans and a 12 bolt differential with 4:10 gears

My question/problem being, is my carb to small for this build? Ive adjusted the hell out of my timing and this 670 carb and it is a pain to get it to idle cold and by itself. When it gets to temp it will run fine at 1000 rpms and pull 10 psi of vacuum which is good for this cam. If I turn the car off then back on I have to sometimes hold the throttle to the ground to get it to start then it will idle normal again. It also doesn't have the crisp throttle an engine like this should have when I rev it. When driving it doesn't quite have that spunk I expected it to have. There's no hesitation when driving so I don't know where my problem is...
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:32 AM   #2
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It's actually a bit on the large side, how do the plugs look? Rich?
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:01 AM   #3
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Does this carb have a choke? Electric or Manual choke?
Very big cam too. Large overlap and not much displacement to make vacuum.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:05 AM   #4
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Second read of the cam specs. Way too much cam. Street/strip my ass. 110 degree lobe separation and 292 duration is too much, especially for a 327. Had a cam like this in a 350 drag engine, wouldn't idle below 1300 and ran a 5500 stall convertor.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:38 PM   #5
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Wow, old school hella-cam.
I ran one back in the mid 80's in my 66 Chevy II 327, for 2 months before I scrapped it for a milder 268H. This was a bottom end dog, no matter what I threw at it for streetable gears or stalls.
Bleed down lifters helped alot, cutting down the low rpm lift and improved vaccuum.
Try moving up your initial timing, around to the 16° area.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #6
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Needs smaller cam - Needs more ignition advance at idle to try to make up for huge cam. Careful carb setup would help. It is not about carb SIZE as much as it is the throttle stop setting/main jetting/float setting/acellerator pump setting/manifold vacuum at idle hooked up to the advance can (and fully deployed) that will help.

Gap the plugs at .035". Big gaps are needed for lean, emissions-type mixtures. You do not need that big of a gap. Not going to fix anything but might help.

-Mark.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:20 PM   #7
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I'm no expert, but..
1) 670 cfm shouldn't cause these issues. Bad carb setup maybe.
2) cam spec says "Very Rough Idle". That says to me it's gonna stall easily and needs 3500 rpm to smooth out.
3) need to verify you have functional Vacuum Advance timing. This will turn any street motor in to a dog if not setup properly.

So before swapping carbs or cams I would go over the vacuum advance setup.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:53 PM   #8
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Thanks guys for the input I've been reading on this cam being a bit too big. The carb seem tuned to the best I can get it all my engine math says a 670 should be fine. This carb is also a vacuum secondary if that changes anything.

I'm gunna try to curve the distributor with some lighter springs and see if that helps. I've also read about the bleed down lifters too but if I go that route I mine as well change the cam. I also might have to change my vacuum can on the distributor to accept a lower vacuum at idle to stop the eratic idle and the stumble it sometime does when the engine idles also.

If anyone has any other ideas or input please let me know. If not I'm gunna try swapping cam soon.

I want some good off the line power with a nice 2000 to 5500 rpm power curve so please shoot me some good roller cams with some good off line power with that power curve
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willhe64 View Post
Does this carb have a choke? Electric or Manual choke?
Very big cam too. Large overlap and not much displacement to make vacuum.
It's has an electric choke
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Old 10-30-2012, 06:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Twisty View Post
It's actually a bit on the large side, how do the plugs look? Rich?
Plugs look clean!
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:36 AM   #11
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Crane F-278-2 Solid Lifter cam is worth a look. I have it in my 302 and our engines are very simmilar in spec except you have .25" more stroke. Nice little buzz bomb.

-Mark.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:26 AM   #12
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Your cam may be out of spec or not properly degreed.
It may help to shift the peak rpms down and marginally help low end torque by advancing this cam a few degrees. Double check PTV if you do this.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumblebee Matt View Post
It's has an electric choke
Verify that it is operating correctly then. You've got too much cam but the hard warm starts could be the choke not releasing all the way when hot.

If you are going roller then get something around 270 duration with more lift. .530 to .550 lift.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:22 PM   #14
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Drill a 1/16" hole in each of the front butterflies. Old School cam, Old school fix
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingr69 View Post
Crane F-278-2 Solid Lifter cam is worth a look. I have it in my 302 and our engines are very simmilar in spec except you have .25" more stroke. Nice little buzz bomb.

-Mark.
Mark... What kind of power are you putting to the ground with this cam and your engine set up? Do you think I should go roller or go solid? How many components will I have to change? I already know the lifters of course but what about (Rockers, push rods, springs?) I've already dumped a good amount of money into this motor so swapping out cams without changing other components would be benificial to the wallet!
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:15 AM   #16
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I have no idea of the HP. I built it as a resto-mod and while the output was important, it was not the first concern. The original "flavor" of the car needed to be kept intact. The solid lifter sounds need to be there and the 950 RPM idle needed to be just right. I wanted to be able to run strong up to 7000 RPM through the stock manifolds withouty worrying about the engine. The F-278-2 does all that.

Wider lobe separations on bigger cams help with making power when running a near stock style exhaust. If your exhaust is muffled, you want generally wider lobe separations. The narrower 110 degree lobe separations on Comp's grinds make for nasty idles and work better with more "open" style exhaust systems where you can take advantage of the overlap. On a corked up street car, the narrow lobes just make for less drivabillity. You just don't get much benefit from them. On a smaller 327, you want to keep the cam specs "smaller". Making power with less cubes is about getting the RPM range right and preventing overcamming. A "too small" cam with the right RPM range in a small engine is MUCH better than a "too big" cam in a small engine. Overcamming a small engine makes for a DOG that will never run right. "Too small" of a cam will allways pull harder and be easier to tune.

If you want to go to roller cam you will have to scrap the cam, springs, retainers, and pushrods.

If you go to a solid lifter cam, you might be able to re-use all or most of what you have. The springs need to match the specs on the cam card or be pretty close. I have run the "brown stripe" springs in the past with the F-278-2 and now run Bee Hive springs from PAC. As long as you can get the right seat pressure and spring rate, you should be good to go.

I know your RPM range you mentioned in your post is different that what I am running (reccommending) but I feel strongly that a 327 needs to be either a high RPM screamer or a grocery getter. You want to take advantage of that near indistructable 3.25" stroke and make it scream or just keep it as a reliable powerplant to cruise around with. Any other application probably would be better off with bigger cubes. JMO.

Hope this helps,

-Mark.
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