Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Emblempros
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Members Area > General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion

General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion Come chat about other cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-16-2008, 10:37 PM   #1
Scotsman
Auto Pilot
 
Scotsman's Avatar
 
Drives: Gunmetal
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: L.A.
Posts: 1,307
Your thoughts on Cellulosic Ethanol....

What do you think the future holds for this much hyped, proposed saving grace for not only the domestic automakers but for our country as well??? It seems like a win win and sure better alternative to hybrids and all the other crap being shoved down our throats.
__________________
"Let the rest of the world dream of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and dinky little British two-seaters. In this country speed doesn't look like that." Got SS?
Scotsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 10:52 PM   #2
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
I think it's only one(though a big one) of a great many things coming together to form the solution to our energy problems. America needs to be energy independant. In fact, Every nation needs to be energy independent...not gonna happen - but it would be ideal.

Anyways, it can now be efficiently produced, for (relatively) cheap, and it's now unbelieveably clean. Cellulosic from Coskata will reduce C02 emmissions by ~84% when compared to gasoline from 'well' to wheel......(hint, hint...~85% reduction in emissions, E85....now lets do E100, and see the emissions coming out of those)

I like it, and if it can be implimented ASAP, and effectively. It can save our V8's. <- If Maximum Bob thinks so...well, dang it, that's good enough for me. It's an excellent relatively short-term fuel solution. But what's gonna happen when we don't need Ethanol anymore - when electric vehicles become so efficient that one charge will last you 1000 miles? Well...I don't think that day's gonna happen, and if it does, then I probably won't be around for it. So kudos to my (future) kids.

Ethanol is a viable, "short-term", fuel solution, and one that I firmly believe needs to be addressed and implemented, as GM keeps saying, NOW.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 01:28 AM   #3
Scotsman
Auto Pilot
 
Scotsman's Avatar
 
Drives: Gunmetal
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: L.A.
Posts: 1,307
Implementing ethanol into our fuel circulation now is the only thing that's going to ensure that it's proliferation in our economy. It's only when things like this get left on the back burner focus becomes slack and the problem remains unsolved. To be truthful, this can't come soon enough.
__________________
"Let the rest of the world dream of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and dinky little British two-seaters. In this country speed doesn't look like that." Got SS?
Scotsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2008, 09:48 AM   #4
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,032
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Why does it have to be Ethanol vs Hybrid, or VVT vs AFM? You can have a hybrid V8 fueled by E85 vehicle with active fuel management and variable valve timing and direct injection, which will then use roughly 10% of the gasoline vs a gasoline engine with none of this. I know that using all those technologies will cost more but you won't need to import gasoline. Sounds like it would help your national economy to do so. Suppporting a domestic automaker and domestic fuel producers keeps the money in your country. We have more oil than we will ever need, but its terrible on the environment.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 06:28 PM   #5
GTAHVIT
One Lucky Guy.
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: #22 Tom Henry Racing 2010 2SS/RS
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,775
I'm with DGthe3.

Before too long we will be able to combine all these or similar capabilities into our motors. And keep consumption down as well as pay an american company for fuel. Sounds great to me. I'm betting when all the oil Shieks aren't getting our money any more they'll start palying nice... Maybe.
GTAHVIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 08:51 PM   #6
AVENGER
 
AVENGER's Avatar
 
Drives: 2002 Camaro Z28
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2
Had a question about how E85 fuel relates to CAFE. If alternate fuel vehicles, IE hydrogen, electric, etc., have a calculated equivilent mileage, then why are flex fuel vehicles still rated the same as gas burners. The Volt is rated at nearly 100 miles per gal. for the first 100 miles. GM can say this because they count the electric only miles. By that logic an E85 SUV getting 20 miles per gal. would need to burn almost 7 gal. of E85 to burn one gal. of gasoline. So it would follow that if CAFE is only counting gallons of gasoline then an E85 fueled SUV getting 140 miles per gal. of gasoline would seem to be more then inside the CAFE standards. Or is this yet another case of the federal government all having there heads up there asses and refusuing to ask for a light?

P.S. any thoughts on how to pay for road improvements since nobody will be buying gasoline anymore and hence not paying road tax?
AVENGER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 09:41 PM   #7
stovt001


 
stovt001's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 Cobalt, 2004 Taurus wagon
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 3,817
E85 capability earns manufacturers credits. E85 engines aren't rated the same as gasoline-only engines, but they aren't calculated the same way you suggest either.
stovt001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2008, 10:49 PM   #8
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
E85 equals BIG loophole in the CAFE law. You make an E85 vehicle? You get some tax credits - which, in turn can be spent on the vehicles that get fined by the CAFE law. (as I understand it)

And electric vehicles are a whole diff. story - they're 'special'.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2008, 12:47 PM   #9
AirGoya

 
AirGoya's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro SS
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago/Carbondale
Posts: 815
I love this idea of ethanol!
Its cleaner, keeps the internal combustion engine around, and will cost less eventually becuase of mass production and energy independence.
I think electric cars are a whole other story. I dont like them. But then i do like them because it keeps CAFE of our A**.
I hope its not a temporary solution. I hope ethanol technology gets even cleaner and more efficient so that we dont have to go "all out" electric.
__________________
-Tim

AirGoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 08:49 PM   #10
Scotsman
Auto Pilot
 
Scotsman's Avatar
 
Drives: Gunmetal
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: L.A.
Posts: 1,307
Interesting news:

Yesterday I went into the local Mobil station to get gas for my car, and after I got through with the transaction I asked the manager if they planned on getting ethanol pumps? He said next year and the year after all Mobil stations will be getting ethanol pumps. I was really surprised and excited. We'll see how this plays out.
__________________
"Let the rest of the world dream of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and dinky little British two-seaters. In this country speed doesn't look like that." Got SS?
Scotsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 09:40 PM   #11
WillInThe04Ranger
 
WillInThe04Ranger's Avatar
 
Drives: 04 Ranger, 95 Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rocky Mount, North Carolina
Posts: 684
Send a message via AIM to WillInThe04Ranger
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
Why does it have to be Ethanol vs Hybrid, or VVT vs AFM? You can have a hybrid V8 fueled by E85 vehicle with active fuel management and variable valve timing and direct injection, which will then use roughly 10% of the gasoline vs a gasoline engine with none of this. I know that using all those technologies will cost more but you won't need to import gasoline. Sounds like it would help your national economy to do so. Suppporting a domestic automaker and domestic fuel producers keeps the money in your country. We have more oil than we will ever need, but its terrible on the environment.
Imma give you guys some insight (Or what I think it would be). Ford already has a engine like this in place, it's an FFV engine (Flex fuel vehicle) and it does come in V8 (F150 5.4L Triton) I know this because my dad was gonna get one, if you go to ford.com the FFV Engine is a free swap (SO it says) and with this engine it will run off E85 or gasoline. Idk a lot about chevy/GM's engines or Dodge/chrysler either

I have also heard that all the while E85 is more efficent than gas, it also has just about the same amount of emissions
__________________
America's Manififest Destiny, Rollin On Radials
WillInThe04Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 12:49 AM   #12
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 25,787
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillInThe04Ranger View Post
Imma give you guys some insight (Or what I think it would be). Ford already has a engine like this in place, it's an FFV engine (Flex fuel vehicle) and it does come in V8 (F150 5.4L Triton) I know this because my dad was gonna get one, if you go to ford.com the FFV Engine is a free swap (SO it says) and with this engine it will run off E85 or gasoline. Idk a lot about chevy/GM's engines or Dodge/chrysler either

I have also heard that all the while E85 is more efficent than gas, it also has just about the same amount of emissions
Not sure about the Ford thing, as I don't follow them as much
But here's the dealio reagarding the bold. And I'm quoting from articles regarding GM's partnership with Coskata, so....

E85 is less efficient than gasoline, as it contains less energy per gallon. That's why vehicles get less mileage while running on Ethanol. However, using Coskata's method of creating Ethanol, for every 1 unit of energy put into Ethanol production, the product (ethanol) yeilds 7 units of energy. I've read that gasoline is something like 1 to .90 or something like that. In that way, Ethanol is more efficient, but not while burning it.

And via Coskata; total emissions (that's "well" to wheels) is reduced by 85%!!!
__________________
"Keep the faith." - - Read Before You Post.
SIGN UP for 2014 Camaro5 HPDE @ Gingerman Raceway!
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2008, 10:45 PM   #13
Scotsman
Auto Pilot
 
Scotsman's Avatar
 
Drives: Gunmetal
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: L.A.
Posts: 1,307
Green Fuels Forecast Coskata vid:


__________________
"Let the rest of the world dream of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and dinky little British two-seaters. In this country speed doesn't look like that." Got SS?

Last edited by Scotsman; 01-23-2008 at 12:58 AM.
Scotsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 12:36 AM   #14
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 22,032
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
"We see it as a win-win"

Amen to that! This sounds almost too good to be true, and even if it costs twice as much and they can only get 80% of what they though out of each feedstock, its still amazing. Who cares how much fuel you can get from garbage, its garbage! Tires, plastic, paper, wood, probably anything that contains carbon and hydrogen in large amounts could be used as a feedstock, though I suppose the process is more efficient when using cellulose (woody fibre) from plant materials. The fact that it can recycle difficult things like tires is excellent. Does it solve everything? No. But it does kill 3 birds with 1 stone: lessen the load in landfills, reduce emissions, and reduce your dependence on foreign oil. In the grand scheme of things, it sounds like it will be the most cost effective way of doing things.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather
__________________

Camaro5 Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 11:06 AM   #15
The_Blur
Jayhawk USN
 
The_Blur's Avatar
 
Drives: 6.2L of AWESOME! 2011 L99 2SS
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NAS Whiting Field
Posts: 14,222
Send a message via AIM to The_Blur
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
"We see it as a win-win"

Amen to that! This sounds almost too good to be true, and even if it costs twice as much and they can only get 80% of what they though out of each feedstock, its still amazing. Who cares how much fuel you can get from garbage, its garbage! Tires, plastic, paper, wood, probably anything that contains carbon and hydrogen in large amounts could be used as a feedstock, though I suppose the process is more efficient when using cellulose (woody fibre) from plant materials. The fact that it can recycle difficult things like tires is excellent. Does it solve everything? No. But it does kill 3 birds with 1 stone: lessen the load in landfills, reduce emissions, and reduce your dependence on foreign oil. In the grand scheme of things, it sounds like it will be the most cost effective way of doing things.
I agree. Pollution is a bigger problem than just emissions. If we can use waste as recycled fuel, then we should. The next step is reducing toxins.
The_Blur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 02:28 PM   #16
AirGoya

 
AirGoya's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 Camaro SS
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago/Carbondale
Posts: 815
thats cool i didnt know they use garbage
__________________
-Tim

AirGoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GM teams up with Coskata to produce bio-fuel Scotsman General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 14 01-15-2008 12:37 PM
Hope we won't lose the Camaro again... Scotsman 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 29 12-20-2007 06:58 PM
Switchgrass Ethanol (Cellulosic Ethanol) Mr. Wyndham Off-topic Discussions 3 12-09-2007 11:06 AM
GM executive wants NASCAR to go green Casull Off-topic Discussions 1 02-21-2007 08:50 PM
Random Thoughts...... Kenz Camaro 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 8 02-09-2007 01:13 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.