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Old 11-23-2012, 10:47 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro View Post
Whatever, unless any of you have the driving skill of a Danny Popp or Mark Stielow, I seriously doubt your going to ring out this thing out to that point...

I am going to experiment with this Camaro until I get it where I want it...coilovers coming in the near future, bushings will be upgraded, CTSV front brakes and then lots of practice and adjustments till this Camaro reacts the way I want it too...

I am happy all you guys or girls are happy with your stock Camaro, but to quote Jesse James, "stock sucks"
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:56 AM   #27
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Threads like this make me envision a GM engineer that worked on the 1LE package reading this and screaming at his monitor.

You guys are not concerned with upsetting the balance of the car? It would be interesting to have a skidpad done on the car with the square setup Vs 305s on the back.
I fully agree. Any changes you make have to be well thought out.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:07 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro View Post
Whatever, unless any of you have the driving skill of a Danny Popp or Mark Stielow, I seriously doubt your going to ring out this thing out to that point...

I am going to experiment with this Camaro until I get it where I want it...coilovers coming in the near future, bushings will be upgraded, CTSV front brakes and then lots of practice and adjustments till this Camaro reacts the way I want it too...

I am happy all you guys or girls are happy with your stock Camaro, but to quote Jesse James, "stock sucks"
Talk to Pete with Pedders he'll get you where you wanna be
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:19 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro View Post
Whatever, unless any of you have the driving skill of a Danny Popp or Mark Stielow, I seriously doubt your going to ring out this thing out to that point...

I am going to experiment with this Camaro until I get it where I want it...coilovers coming in the near future, bushings will be upgraded, CTSV front brakes and then lots of practice and adjustments till this Camaro reacts the way I want it too...

I am happy all you guys or girls are happy with your stock Camaro, but to quote Jesse James, "stock sucks"
Lol. Seriously since you are breaking new ground, compared to someone who isn't skilled to do so, please let us know what works and doesn't. I'm going to hire a track guide/coach and get some time behind the wheel before painting outside the lines.
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:54 PM   #30
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90% of the reason is not bc I think wider is better bc that's not the case. It's well known that the 1LE stock tires are HORRIBLE in cold weather and they won't last too long.

I'm mainly doing it for two reasons:
1: Save tread for my stockers for next year
2: The Continentals I got are high performance ALL WEATHER tires and have stellar reviews and will only use throughout the winter
Which Continentals did you go with?
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:41 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro View Post
Whatever, unless any of you have the driving skill of a Danny Popp or Mark Stielow, I seriously doubt your going to ring out this thing out to that point...

I am going to experiment with this Camaro until I get it where I want it...coilovers coming in the near future, bushings will be upgraded, CTSV front brakes and then lots of practice and adjustments till this Camaro reacts the way I want it too...

I am happy all you guys or girls are happy with your stock Camaro, but to quote Jesse James, "stock sucks"
I agree,. You can do lots of changes to make it work better than stock. Bigger front tires, bigger rear sway bar or stiffer springs, alignment settings and even tire pressures can help.
I would recomend getting really familiar with your car the way it came, then make the changes to see if your going in the right direction.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:12 PM   #32
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You do realize we are talking about a mere 1" of tire width difference between a 285 and 305, hardly a big difference....
One inch is huuuuge. If it wasnt, GM wouldn't have wasted their time with releasing a new tire/wheel combo. In the front, 1 inch will completely change your steering tune. Name one car with 305's in the front? Rare, if even existent.

By the way wider tire increases your rolling resistance, same as a stiffer roll bar. Another reason you don't want wider in front.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:24 PM   #33
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One inch is huuuuge. If it wasnt, GM wouldn't have wasted their time with releasing a new tire/wheel combo. In the front, 1 inch will completely change your steering tune. Name one car with 305's in the front? Rare, if even existent.

By the way wider tire increases your rolling resistance, same as a stiffer roll bar. Another reason you don't want wider in front.
Not always true. I run 315's on the front of my fourth gen and it corners like its on rails.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:14 AM   #34
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One inch is huuuuge. If it wasnt, GM wouldn't have wasted their time with releasing a new tire/wheel combo. In the front, 1 inch will completely change your steering tune. Name one car with 305's in the front? Rare, if even existent.

By the way wider tire increases your rolling resistance, same as a stiffer roll bar. Another reason you don't want wider in front.
If you say so, in a 4,000lb car, a sliver more of tire width is not going to drastically change the handling...and GM didn't do much but decide they would stretch out a tire over a wider wheel....that's not much in the way of engineering...you worry about your 1LE and I'll take care of mine...
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:24 AM   #35
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Which Continentals did you go with?
Bought from another Gen5 owner:
http://www.tirebuyer.com/tires/conti...FcuZ4AodICMAvg
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:25 AM   #36
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So Cal Camaro, do you have any pics of your car with an angle view? The only gripe I have about the 1LE is the rear tire that has too much of a roll, cause the rim is so wide. Does it work on the track, no doubt!! The only track my car will see is an occassional 1/4 mile with friends on a fun day. I want the steam rollers in the rear for looks. Thanks!
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:15 AM   #37
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Thankyou!
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:19 AM   #38
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I work at Runde Chevrolet in East Dubuque, IL so I get a pretty good deal on them as I do the ZL1 skirts and diffuser, which will be 2nd install, headers and CAI 3rd.
My Camaro came from Runde Chevrolet over 20 years ago. Still have all the original paperwork, business cards, and bill of sale. I think the guy that sold the car retired about 6-8 months ago.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:24 PM   #39
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Very nice !! I know who you are talking about but can't remember his name. I just started there 2 months ago. People still talk very highly of him. Sweet machine! Where do you live? In the area?
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Old 11-25-2012, 02:37 PM   #40
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Not always true. I run 315's on the front of my fourth gen and it corners like its on rails.
Gon on tirerack, look up every great sports car company and find one car that has front tires over 300 wide? I only found one with 295, the others dont even come close.

You have no idea the havoc wide front tires cause and honestly cant think of one benefit aside of trying to balance out ridiculously wide rear tires, which is what the viper acr was doing.

Now imagine all these car companies, lamborghini, ferrari, aston, buggati, gm, ford, chrysler etc. And none of them picking crazy wide fronts....... Hmm they are either clueless or right? Which one you think it is?
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:40 AM   #41
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Very nice !! I know who you are talking about but can't remember his name. I just started there 2 months ago. People still talk very highly of him. Sweet machine! Where do you live? In the area?
I don't have the documents in front of me, but his name is on the bill of sale and his business cards are in the owners manual. My car currently has just over 20k miles on it. I live down on the gulf, so I don't think I'll be taking it to Runde anytime soon!
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:11 AM   #42
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Gon on tirerack, look up every great sports car company and find one car that has front tires over 300 wide? I only found one with 295, the others dont even come close.

You have no idea the havoc wide front tires cause and honestly cant think of one benefit aside of trying to balance out ridiculously wide rear tires, which is what the viper acr was doing.

Now imagine all these car companies, lamborghini, ferrari, aston, buggati, gm, ford, chrysler etc. And none of them picking crazy wide fronts....... Hmm they are either clueless or right? Which one you think it is?
Since I have no idea what havoc is happening to a car running 315's on the front, what should I be looking for? They have been on my Camaro for the last 6 years. BTW Tirerack didnt want to sell me 315's for the front or rear because they said they wouldnt fit, but hey what do I know.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:35 AM   #43
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Since I have no idea what havoc is happening to a car running 315's on the front, what should I be looking for? They have been on my Camaro for the last 6 years. BTW Tirerack didnt want to sell me 315's for the front or rear because they said they wouldnt fit, but hey what do I know.
It looks like you race the car. The interesting thing would be to put a smaller tire on the car. There is a balance between grip, unsprung weight (big tires and rims weigh more), rolling resistance, and aero drag. It could be that running a 275 on your car it could have more top speed, faster acceleration and better cornering. (Note I said "could") Like anything else setup is important and each car is different.

My point in this thread is that GM spent a ton of time building the 1LE package for handling. The car is a 1G car out of the box. (Which is amazing) It is going to be hard to make it noticeably better without spending a bunch of $$$. Again I could be wrong and I am very interested with people's results as they make drastic changes to the car's setup. (305's on the back is a big change.) If you bought the car for looks not handling then I guess that change will not matter much but for those that want to drive the car hard into a turn it could result in a negative result.

Just my opinion and it is worth what it costs to post it here.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:15 PM   #44
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There's so much paranoia in this thread. The tires were meant to make the car mostly neutral as an OEM car. No manufacturer makes a car that will oversteer because of morons who don't know how to drive it killing themselves. Thats why most reviews say understeer is still present but lessened. An OEM designed car and a race car optimized for the track are vastly different. The more tire you can get in a balanced or mild oversteer situation depending on preference is best for racing. You can only brake as fast as your tire will let you. You can only pull as many g's as your tires will let you. If everyone is so scared to mod a car then leave it stock and don't race it because you'll be breaking stuff. And then you'll put a stock part back on versus upgrade to a better than OEM part not designed by an OEM engineer for a mass produced car at a mass produced price? I can power steer way faster through a turn than a car maintaining a mild understeer can, give me more tire and I will do it faster still.

For many people the 1LE will be more car than they'll ever use and stock is fine. For a few people the answer to the question of how fast do you want to go will always be faster. Those people don't rely on OEM engineers to make their mod decisions. Why pull 1g when you can pull 1.2? Or 1.4? Put slicks in 285 size and you can easily do 1.2 or more. Put 305 slicks on and you can brake that much later, that much harder, carry speed better through a turn, and greatly increase exit speed. The stock brembos can lock up the wheels when braking hard. Using track pads will make it even easier, you fix that with wider or stickier tires. You can buy wheels that can shave almost double digit poundage off each corner. You're driving a big V8, power is not the issue. Traction is. Yes a wider tire increases drag. Bad for gas mileage and would probably tip the car into gas guzzler tax territory because OEM's needs to use cheaper mass produced wheels, deal with mileage ratings, and therefore can't reduce the weight to make up for it. Bad for commuters but great for the track.

Listening to an OEM engineer for whats best for a race car is like listening to a politician for whats best for the country. What you get is a deeply twisted perspective based upon whats best for them and their situation. Sorry if I offend anyone but use a little independent thinking and do some research on race suspensions.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:18 PM   #45
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I am happy all you guys or girls are happy with your stock Camaro, but to quote Jesse James, "stock sucks"
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:12 PM   #46
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No, if they really wanted a square set up done right, they should have used 10" wheels all around, the 285 stretched across the 11" wheel looks awful and looks like it is going to wear the tire quickly...I'll get the ZL1 Pedders or Pfadt rear sway bar, it'll be good when I'm done with it...
I'd do the "square" setup the other way - 285's on 11" wheels all around.

The reason is cornering stiffness and turn-in response, which are characteristics you want to favor in a hardcore handling machine. So if you're an OE engineer, you pick a wheel width out toward or at the max recommended width for whatever size tire you end up with. Having the rear package a little stiffer than the front ought to make the car just a little more predictable at the (rather high) limit.

You can't look at a wide wheel setup like the old days where you had tall profile tires that bulged/bellied way out past the wheel flanges - that to me is the picture of soft cornering response, noisy cornering at only moderate g-levels, and heavy outside shoulder wear.

Tire wear with the 11" wheels won't be anywhere near as bad as you seem to think. Generally on the more hardcore performance cars I've owned, I've been running tires at to about half an inch past max recommended for about 40 years. (I'm an engineer, just not in the automotive sector, and I can give myself a little more leeway if I can legitimately justify it to myself. Been good so far . . .) At any rate, I've always gotten very close to dead even wear except for the time I didn't pay enough attention to the inflation pressure and wore out the shoulders. All four of the OE all-season tires that my '08 Mustang came with were wearing within no more than 0.02" across the tread when I took them off last spring (I just put them back on today, for the winter). Matching the inflation pressures and alignment to your driving is rather important.

The reason that the ZL1 uses a staggered setup is because of the significantly greater power and torque available, which would tend to be a little too "unbalanced" on-throttle on corner exit otherwise, Ford went through the same sort of thing with the 2008-era GT500 with the 18" wheel & tire package (reportedly they tried but couldn't make a square setup satisfy corporate handling requirements, so they staggered the tire size but not the wheel width).

I hope Chevy doesn't pay much attention to people staggering the tires on the 1LE just for the sake of appearance, as the risk is spoiling the car for the hardcore handling guys.

I guess you just have to be able to appreciate an appearance that runs contrary to popular opinion. That the subjective appearance in this matter should be kept secondary to the intended [handling] performance instead of the other way around.


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Old 11-26-2012, 07:17 PM   #47
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This isn't my first venture into driving cars and setting them up the way I want them, I don't care for the stretched tire and given the way I set this up with the Nitto's, it'll be the way I want it...stop worrying about what I'm doing...and worry about your own car's set up....
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:18 PM   #48
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Fellas fellas!!! This isn't meant to piss anyone off. So, do you guys think most of these cars are gonna see the track like the video of a professional driver cranking it around Virginia Raceway? Which is a killer video by the way. In my opinion, if you can drive at that level, you will surely feel the difference having a 1 inch narrower or wider tire. But for the guys running an autocross track in a Wal-Mart parking lot around 50 orange cones, I highly doubt you will notice. Kudos to the guys that can feel the difference from a 1 inch narrower or wider tire! That takes a ton of seat time and homework. Mine will eventually see a lap or 2 around Elkhart Lake or Joliet, but for this daily driver, speeds around corners will be conservative cause just because the car can do it doesn't mean I can. So 305's it is for me.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:29 PM   #49
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I plan on putting the 305's on mine. Do you all think I will have to recalibrate the computer for this. Height according to tire rack is 305's- 28.4. and the 285's at 27.9
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:12 PM   #50
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I plan on putting the 305's on mine. Do you all think I will have to recalibrate the computer for this. Height according to tire rack is 305's- 28.4. and the 285's at 27.9
If and when you have the car tuned, the tuner can adjust it then. Not for sure if it will make a difference or not.
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