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Old 01-12-2013, 05:13 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by BullF-16 View Post
Well, removed the cowl cover, unbolted the regulator, removed the bottom(return) -8 line on the regulator and turned on the key, 10 seconds later as teh gauge went to 58psi, large heavy stream of fuel started spewing forth from the bottom port on the regulator not the hose. So its plumbed correctly.
That rules that out...... No delay of 10 sec should be there
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:22 AM   #189
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Does it hold fuel pressure after shutting the engine off? If it doesn't, that would be a key hint. Maybe a check valve is stuck open or missing. Or a bad regulator. The check valve should be holding pressure at one end and the regulator at the other. If the regulator is regulating fuel pressure normally while running, I would think that is ok. Somehow the line is draining empty, then your pushing against air on start up. A cold vapor lock until enough injector openings clear out the air. A check valve problem can cause that.

Try turning the key on first thing in the morning, and within a few seconds press on the fuel rail schrader valve. Does it pffft out a bunch of air? But, if fuel pressure drops right off after the engine is shut off... something isn't right, and it's not in the calibration.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:57 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
Does it hold fuel pressure after shutting the engine off? If it doesn't, that would be a key hint. Maybe a check valve is stuck open or missing. Or a bad regulator. The check valve should be holding pressure at one end and the regulator at the other. If the regulator is regulating fuel pressure normally while running, I would think that is ok. Somehow the line is draining empty, then your pushing against air on start up. A cold vapor lock until enough injector openings clear out the air. A check valve problem can cause that.

Try turning the key on first thing in the morning, and within a few seconds press on the fuel rail schrader valve. Does it pffft out a bunch of air? But, if fuel pressure drops right off after the engine is shut off... something isn't right, and it's not in the calibration.

Tried it just now after sitting for about 16 hrs. Key on, no pressure to the gauge for about 3 minutes....no audible fuel flow thru the lines at the regulator but the pump is definitely running this whole time. At the 3 min point gauge jumps to 58psi and fuel flow is very obvious(you can hear it) at the regulator as the psi jumps. Started the car, ran for a minute shut key off and gauge immediately drops ot Zero.

No schraeder valves that i can see on the Aeromotive LS7 rails.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:56 PM   #191
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Sounds like the check valve is dumping the fuel right back to the tank after shut off. A leaky injector would be a slow loss of fuel pressure after pump off. All the bad regulators I've seen, cause a running PSI problem.

Or something isn't plumbed right... but that also seems like it would cause running problems.

Can you take the main fuel feed line off from the pump up in the engine compartment but before the regulator and blow air/fuel back into the tank? There should be fuel in that line after shut off, and you shouldn't be able to blow it back into the tank.

Once everything is right, the system should hold your running psi for quite a while after key off.

Just be real careful for no key ons while any lines are off. I put the keys back in the house while tinkering with
high pressure lines.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:21 PM   #192
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Mine does exactly what Russell said it should do (hear the fuel entering everything) almost instantly.

Have you bypassed your inline filter just to rule it out?

Or maybe the actual fuel bucket isn't able to reach the fuel for some reason. Perhaps the siphon arm didn't get attached correctly? Just brainstorming here....
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:56 PM   #193
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It wouldn't be a filter problem. The problem is for some reason the system is not retaining fuel pressure after key off. The pump's check valve does it on one end, and the injectors on the other. Along with a regulator on a return style.

The regulator seems to be regulating, leaky injectors would only slowly bleed off pressure (and not empty the line). It sounds like the line is emptying back to the tank, then you get a cold vapor lock on a cold start up until the injectors pulsing can clear out the line. Check valve being the most suspicious culprit. Either missing or stuck, maybe some debris got caught in it.

Or maybe something weird like the regulator not plumbed right and it is siphoning the line dry after shut off.

That's why I'd blow back down that main feed line after a shut off. You shouldn't be able to if the check valve is closing. If the check valve is closing, then I'd look into what is going on with the regulator and return side.

Also check the oil, just to make sure it isn't filling up with raw gas.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:27 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
It wouldn't be a filter problem. The problem is for some reason the system is not retaining fuel pressure after key off. The pump's check valve does it on one end, and the injectors on the other. Along with a regulator on a return style.

The regulator seems to be regulating, leaky injectors would only slowly bleed off pressure (and not empty the line). It sounds like the line is emptying back to the tank, then you get a cold vapor lock on a cold start up until the injectors pulsing can clear out the line. Check valve being the most suspicious culprit. Either missing or stuck, maybe some debris got caught in it.

Or maybe something weird like the regulator not plumbed right and it is siphoning the line dry after shut off.

That's why I'd blow back down that main feed line after a shut off. You shouldn't be able to if the check valve is closing. If the check valve is closing, then I'd look into what is going on with the regulator and return side.

Also check the oil, just to make sure it isn't filling up with raw gas.

Andy at Squash thinks it may be wired to the wrong pink wire on the factory FPCM connector. There are 2 pink wires in this connector. One is 20 gauge and is the ignition source and the other is 16 gauge and is "fuel low reference". He says if its the pump trigger is wired into the wrong wire the voltage is insufficient. I will pull the interior panel off on the passenger side in the back seat and see which wire the pump is getting its power from. He also said the psi drop at key off is normal??????

SNL said they never had an issue with this when they were testing the car trying to trouble shoot the original problem of reduced power mode and P0606 code
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:28 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell James View Post
It wouldn't be a filter problem. The problem is for some reason the system is not retaining fuel pressure after key off. The pump's check valve does it on one end, and the injectors on the other. Along with a regulator on a return style.

The regulator seems to be regulating, leaky injectors would only slowly bleed off pressure (and not empty the line). It sounds like the line is emptying back to the tank, then you get a cold vapor lock on a cold start up until the injectors pulsing can clear out the line. Check valve being the most suspicious culprit. Either missing or stuck, maybe some debris got caught in it.

Or maybe something weird like the regulator not plumbed right and it is siphoning the line dry after shut off.

That's why I'd blow back down that main feed line after a shut off. You shouldn't be able to if the check valve is closing. If the check valve is closing, then I'd look into what is going on with the regulator and return side.

Also check the oil, just to make sure it isn't filling up with raw gas.

Andy at Squash thinks it may be wired to the wrong pink wire on the factory FPCM connector. There are 2 pink wires in this connector. One is 20 gauge and is the ignition source and the other is 16 gauge and is "fuel pump low reference". He says if the pump trigger is wired into the wrong wire the voltage is insufficient. I will pull the interior panel off on the passenger side in the back seat and see which wire the pump is getting its power from. He also said the psi drop at key off is normal??????

SNL said they never had an issue with this when they were testing the car trying to trouble shoot the original problem of reduced power mode and P0606 code
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:18 PM   #196
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I disconnected the fuel line that comes off the front of the drivers side fuel rail. I blew into the front of the fuel rail and and gas flowed from the connection that i disconnected at this fuel rail. So this tells me that the air flowed thru the fuel rail down to the Y block and back up the line from the y block to the pass side fuel rail then into the regulator and force gas out of the disconnected drivers side fuel rail connection. See pics, so basically i blew into this front end of the drivers side fuel rail and gas flowed from the black connector at a pretty good rate. Make sense?

The way this return system is plumbed is -10 line from fuel hat to Aeromotive 40 micron filter with billet housing, -10 line to y block. 2 x -8 lines from Y block to the back of each LS7 fuel rail. 2 x -8 lines from the front of the fuel rails to each side of the Aeromotive Pro Series regulator. The a -8 return line from the bottom of the regulator back to the return port on the Squash fuel hat.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:27 PM   #197
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some other pics of the engine bay just for fun!
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:55 PM   #198
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I can't speak on all of the fuel system you are dealing with but I can tell you it is normal for the FP to to drop when the car has been sitting with an aeromotive FPR. I drove myself nuts over this on a twin turbo car I have and after a lengthy conversation with aeromotive they told me it was normal.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:27 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE
Any check valve in the system.

Fuel feed Plumbing should be - pump out with check valve to regulator in than regulator out to filter out filter to rail that's it.

Fuel return from bottom of regulator back to the return fitting in Andy's Fuel pump .


There is check valve built into the hat that works regardless of the check valves in the pumps themselves. If he can get the interior panel open I will walk him through a few checks. He should not need more than a second of prime time for pressure to come up.

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Im getting ready to install my Squash system going from pump to filter to Aeromotive regulator then to fuel rail on whipple set up, bottom outlet return to pump hat return. as ADMs suggested and Andy with Squash. Is this OK.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:36 PM   #200
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Tried it just now after sitting for about 16 hrs. Key on, no pressure to the gauge for about 3 minutes....no audible fuel flow thru the lines at the regulator but the pump is definitely running this whole time. At the 3 min point gauge jumps to 58psi and fuel flow is very obvious(you can hear it) at the regulator as the psi jumps. Started the car, ran for a minute shut key off and gauge immediately drops ot Zero.

No schraeder valves that i can see on the Aeromotive LS7 rails.

We just got our Squash system running yesterday.. We aren't actually running it as Andy's directions suggest to have pump on with key on. We are still using a FP turn-on to prime the pump for 2 seconds like "stock." First click on went to 40psi purged the air out. Reset module, second click right to 55psi, fired up. Has fired up instantly in between about 12 dyno runs every single time today.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:01 PM   #201
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Bull F-16, good to see the ride back on the street! I was right behind you in the Red SS on kemp turning onto southwest parkway by Walgreens.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:16 PM   #202
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Awesome man. Finally, get the car back and spring not too far away. Yay!!!!
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:59 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Matt @ FSP View Post
We just got our Squash system running yesterday.. We aren't actually running it as Andy's directions suggest to have pump on with key on. We are still using a FP turn-on to prime the pump for 2 seconds like "stock." First click on went to 40psi purged the air out. Reset module, second click right to 55psi, fired up. Has fired up instantly in between about 12 dyno runs every single time today.
What wire did you hook to to do that?

The Pink wire will only turn the pump on with key on. I have it on a 12v keyed/switched source but just not the Pink wire as I used one from the fuse panel in the engine compartment. The FPCM controlls the pump prime now and factory it is set to 2 sec but can be changed.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:42 AM   #204
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Wiring wouldn't have anything to do with FP instantly dropping to zero at key off.

Every EFI system I've ever worked on held pressure for a little while after shut off. If the feed line drains back to the tank, it's going to be hell trying to start with zero FP and air in the line at the next restart.

I'm not sure of exactly how you were blowing into the line. But try to only blow down the main feed line, without involving any T off or regulator... just blow into the main feed line from the pump, after just shutting it off.

I would think if the check valve is working, you shouldn't be able to blow fuel back down that line into the tank.

If the check valve is working and you can't blow down that line, then something is screwy with the regulator/return side. You have to be able to hold pressure after key off. Pump check valve holds one end, injectors being closed holds the other end. If you've created a regulated return side, that adds more complexity to it. Maybe that is siphoning out the fuel line after shut off? But, I'd first make sure on the fuel pump feed side, the check valve is holding after shut off.

Maybe check with others with this type of return style fuel system if theirs holds pressure at key off.

I've never used this brand of fuel system, but all others I've used held pressure at key off. Then if you have zero pressure at the next key on, that could be a sign the main fuel line emptied back to the tank. I would think if there was a wiring problem or calibration problem, it would be hard to start at every start.
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