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Old 12-15-2012, 05:37 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by BullF-16 View Post
Alright. Need some brainstorming here. Spent the last 2 days with my car down at SNL Performance. The motor is in, the Aeromotive eliminator, billet controller, return style fuel system is in a wired correctly. (Aeromotive needs to get their shit together in this respect!!!) Pump runs at low voltage until 5000rpm then kicks into high gear thru the speed controller.

All this went fine. We did the initial drivability tune (Pat Guerra is the tuner) about the best there is...google him!!

This was done thurday PM. Friday morning we figured out that a relay was required for the 16 gauge power wire to the FPSC. Without the relay the pump would fire up at key on, but the rail pressure would drop from 58 to 0 as soon as the motor started to crank. Basically, voltage at the FPSC would fall below 10.5 which we determined was necessary to power the FPSC. A relay fixed this problem and all was good with all the Aeromotive....the pump is loud, sounds like an ass ton of Africanized killer bees are in the back seat. (the back seat was not installed however.)

So heres the deal. Dyno runs went well. Pat G tuned it without the meth pump on and was conservative. We had major belt slip on the D1 at about 5300 rpm where the best run peaked at 690RWHP and 684RWTQ. This all happened at 5300 rpm then the curves went flat to 7000. I watched the boost gauge int he a pillar peak around 11-12 psi and fall flat at this point as the rpm climbed to 7000. You could smell the rubber belt burning.

I was pretty happy with 684RWTQ at 5300 and knew i could always upgrade to a 12 rib later. Oh BTW the MAP sensor is the stock 1 bar.

Pat G wanted to go for a final streetability drive with my driving.

First time i got on it, major TQ kicks in in 3rd....feather the throttle to get back in control then back on it to about 5000rpm. Then "reduced engine power" kills power and P0606 code is present. "PCM internal fault" is what this is. Pat has never seen this. He clears it and i try again...same result but at a little diff rpm. He clears it and again, same thing when getting on throttle.

Pat disables the code and we try again, but same result but no code is reported since he disable it.

We spent hours on this, he reset the entire pcm, reflashed the tune, i pulled PCM circuit breakes, we check grounds and the PCM harness at the connectors and all look good. Take it out again and same thing. it would "reduce engine power about 2 out of every 3 times when giving it gas.


Anyone out here seen this type of thing?

Plan is to bypass the Aeromotive speed contorller and run the pump full speed to see if its a contorller issue.

If that does not work, i want to get a new PCM and reload Pats tune and start with a fresh computer.

I think maybe my OE pcm just went tango uniform (tits up) when we deleted the OE fuel control computer when we went return style????

Lots of smart guys with lots of experience were consulted and all just scratched their heads and went "Hmmmmmm"


Pat g needs to re write the hex file! If he's as good as everyone says, then he should know how to do this.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:23 PM   #52
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Pat g needs to re write the hex file! If he's as good as everyone says, then he should know how to do this.
Im starting to wonder..... i sent him the post from ADM and his response was
'
"nice info"

if the new speed controller and resistor/capacitor from aeromotive and Autometer dont work i may press him further.

Or i may just suck it up and order the Squash Performance dual 400LPH walbro setup. What the hell's another grand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This car is a giant 4000 lb piece of shit paperweight so far!
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:31 PM   #53
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Be prepared for more issues. Builds like these are rarely as smooth as you hope.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:36 PM   #54
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Be prepared for more issues. Builds like these are rarely as smooth as you hope.
I agree. I have been following these build threads as I have started a build of my own and the common theme is......smooth they are not.

Nick... I just read you whole build thread and you should definitely know!
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:32 AM   #55
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Yah, and still need to fix belt slip and an oil leak. I figure another 4-5 months before all the bugs are worked out. Mostly because it is snowing outside but big builds are rarely smooth.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:16 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by BullF-16 View Post
Im starting to wonder..... i sent him the post from ADM and his response was
'
"nice info"

if the new speed controller and resistor/capacitor from aeromotive and Autometer dont work i may press him further.

Or i may just suck it up and order the Squash Performance dual 400LPH walbro setup. What the hell's another grand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This car is a giant 4000 lb piece of shit paperweight so far!
I had this issue happen to a brand new ECU. P0606 with any sort of abuse to the car and this was with a large cammed LS2. The ECU just needs to have the hex file re wrote, however, only a certain number of people that are invited to GM headquarters for tune brain storm sessions know how to do this
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:40 PM   #57
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since you are in N TX...you may just take the joker to ADM and let them work it out...just sayin. Hopin' the best for ya sir.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:27 PM   #58
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Is it the older style nw? I had this issue quite often with my old one. Swapped to new style and also noticed wires in the connector were pulled out. Replaced the connector and didnt have any issues after. Livernois pulled that tb off and went with an ls3 base they recommended cause they'd rather not even tune nw 102's.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:05 AM   #59
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I had this issue happen to a brand new ECU. P0606 with any sort of abuse to the car and this was with a large cammed LS2. The ECU just needs to have the hex file re wrote, however, only a certain number of people that are invited to GM headquarters for tune brain storm sessions know how to do this
I dont suppose you are one of those people
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:30 PM   #60
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Well apparently there is a fix for the bad rpm signal from the tach adapter...somewhere along the 20ft of non shielded wiring the rpm signal may be getting corrupted and the PCM has issue with it. If the capacitor that autometer is sending does not help, an option is to move the tach adapter to the front of the car vs all the way back in the trunk. this will significantly reduce the length of wire and possible fix the problem....nothing else to try

Aeromotive also says we could do away with the tach adapter and go with a vacuum hobbs switch which could command the controller and pump to full speed when going from vacuum to boost. seems logical to me
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:03 PM   #61
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Well apparently there is a fix for the bad rpm signal from the tach adapter...somewhere along the 20ft of non shielded wiring the rpm signal may be getting corrupted and the PCM has issue with it. If the capacitor that autometer is sending does not help, an option is to move the tach adapter to the front of the car vs all the way back in the trunk. this will significantly reduce the length of wire and possible fix the problem....nothing else to try

Aeromotive also says we could do away with the tach adapter and go with a vacuum hobbs switch which could command the controller and pump to full speed when going from vacuum to boost. seems logical to me
Im thinking there was another company that does the tach adapter? maybe MSD? Im gonna check how its wired on my car.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:50 PM   #62
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Im thinking there was another company that does the tach adapter? maybe MSD? Im gonna check how its wired on my car.
yes, its an MSD. I dont have the part number but all the wiring is the same as the Autometer. here is a good install article on the 5th gen. but notice on the 8th photo down you can see a green capacitor wired into the tach adapter. Nowhere in this article does it mention this nor is it included. I do know that after troubleshooting with Autometer and determining that the RPM signal was bad that autometer sent my shop this capacitor. This is what we are waiting for.

We installed the tach adapter in the trunk vs on the firewall. I wonder if using non shielded wire and running the RPM signal from the pink coil wire at each harness on the motor all the way back to the trunk is causing some degradation in the clear information the tach adapter and pump controller need.

Here is the article
http://www.autometer.com/techinfo_ne...=1&pg=1&aid=10
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:10 PM   #63
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My guess is they want you to place the capacitor from the signal wire to the auto meters ground and use it as a filter?

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Old 12-17-2012, 09:27 PM   #64
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Aeromotive also says we could do away with the tach adapter and go with a vacuum hobbs switch which could command the controller and pump to full speed when going from vacuum to boost. seems logical to me
Seems to me boost would be a better trigger to turn up the pump anyway.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:22 AM   #65
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Ok so I'm convinced this is a pride issue looks to me that SNL and Pat don't want to fess up and say okay Andy's right,go ahead and run one low voltage low-level signal wire to the attack input on the aeromotor controller that's all you have to do make it simple and your done please understand I'm not trying to say I'm the best around but I do have knowledge in this area more than most so just do the job get it finished.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:39 AM   #66
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Ok so I'm convinced this is a pride issue looks to me that SNL and Pat don't want to fess up and say okay Andy's right,go ahead and run one low voltage low-level signal wire to the attack input on the aeromotor controller that's all you have to do make it simple and your done please understand I'm not trying to say I'm the best around but I do have knowledge in this area more than most so just do the job get it finished.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:25 AM   #67
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Ok so I'm convinced this is a pride issue looks to me that SNL and Pat don't want to fess up and say okay Andy's right,go ahead and run one low voltage low-level signal wire to the attack input on the aeromotor controller that's all you have to do make it simple and your done please understand I'm not trying to say I'm the best around but I do have knowledge in this area more than most so just do the job get it finished.
SNL has been busting their hump trying to figure this out. They are a great shop and im sure will figure it out. I sent them you previous info and they will go that route is the new controller and capacitor dont work. This is what Aeromotive and Autometer both suggest. He does not have a local tuner who can go in the HP tuners or EFI live and make the changes.

Pat, my tuner insists he has done numerous 5th gens the same way and has never had issue. I think he is tired of hearing from me.

PM sent
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:50 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE View Post
Ok so I'm convinced this is a pride issue looks to me that SNL and Pat don't want to fess up and say okay Andy's right,go ahead and run one low voltage low-level signal wire to the attack input on the aeromotor controller that's all you have to do make it simple and your done please understand I'm not trying to say I'm the best around but I do have knowledge in this area more than most so just do the job get it finished.
I'm working with Aeromotive to make their stuff work, period. If we skew from what they say and it winds up being faulty then the customer is stuck with a hunk of billet that does nothing but look pretty and Aeromotive telling him to go pound sand. I have no doubt you're giving sound advice, however, this is not what the manufacturer is asking us to do therefore we're not going to do that. Now, in the event Aeromotive tells us they're out of ideas we'll venture out to other things, right now we're just following their diagnostic procedures to ensure their continued support - and most importantly if the pump/controller fails due to something defective or what they asked us to do we're covered.

It has absolutely nothing at all to do with pride, this is by far not my first fuel system and surely won't be our last.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:52 AM   #69
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We've narrowed the issue down to the tach signal from the adapter, Autometer is convinced that we need to install a capacitor inline to correct the issue. I'd have rather used a MSD unit as I've never had an issue with one, but Autometer was recommended by the guys at Aeromotive and that's what Jim brought us.

We'll keep you guys updated on the progress, thanks for your advice Andy, we really do appreciate it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:55 PM   #70
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If they don't have to use the capacitor on all cars than it has to be the length and placement of the tach wire. If your getting noise it's because your running a tach signal to the back of the car 20 ft long I'm guessing right up against or in the same bundle as other wires which would be why you would need a shielded cable If noise is truly what the issue is. I would use a capacitor if I just ran 1000 ft of cable and didn't use shielded cable by mistake but for 20 ft I would pull it out and redo it with good cable. I'd run that by auto meter and see what they say.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:08 PM   #71
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If they don't have to use the capacitor on all cars than it has to be the length and placement of the tach wire. If your getting noise it's because your running a tach signal to the back of the car 20 ft long I'm guessing right up against or in the same bundle as other wires which would be why you would need a shielded cable If noise is truly what the issue is. I would use a capacitor if I just ran 1000 ft of cable and didn't use shielded cable by mistake but for 20 ft I would pull it out and redo it with good cable. I'd run that by auto meter and see what they say.

Well, the capacitor and new controller did not work, at least now the reduced power and P0606 code did not kick off untill 6000rpm. Before whenever the throttle was approaching 75% it happened.

I have suggested this, we will see if they try it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:46 PM   #72
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Well, the capacitor and new controller did not work, at least now the reduced power and P0606 code did not kick off untill 6000rpm. Before whenever the throttle was approaching 75% it happened.

I have suggested this, we will see if they try it.
to you guys... Soon you'll be having a few beers and laughing about this challenge...
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:06 AM   #73
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Time to take Andys advice lol.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:08 PM   #74
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I wonder who knows more. The techs who support these components or the proffesinals that do these high horsepower builds? We will soon find out. Good luck with the gremlins brother!
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:12 PM   #75
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Well, got an email from SNL Performance. When they put in the capacitor that autometer recommended it actually made the car worse. It would shut down for no reason at all.

They then put in the new PCM and reprogrammed it and same result.

Bottom line, the system that Aeromotive said would work does not work! They spent hours on the phone with Aeromotive and Autometer and all is wired exactly as it should be.

Aeromotive is suggesting a different method to have the speed controller control pump speed and thats with a hobbs switch. This seems like a bandaid to me for a bullshit system that does not work as advertised.

Aeromotive seems to be ducking this but i will see before i pass final judgement on this company.

I think even if the hobbs switch to the controller works its just a matter of time before the pump gives out anyhow based on what i have read in the past.


Merry Christmas BTW
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