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Old 06-25-2009, 01:09 PM   #26
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Wow I just got off the phone with damien and now I see this post... I too have an "order" with John L Sullivan and I am being told the same thing about 4000 dollars worth of extra stuff that myself nor my wife want. I was told MSRP from the beginning. Never mentioned about 4K worth of extra stuff. I am willing to grease the wheels maybe by ordering the tint and the car cover but I have my own car detailer that is going to do paint protection and I don't want the clear bra. Does anyone or did anyone do the financing up front prior to ordering???? I think that is the only thing that will protect us from this crap. It's bad business practice to do this especially in the 9th inning after stringing all of us along. I'm #5 right now in the ordering string and I placed my order in February. I was expecting the car in August sometime. I'm honestly thinking about traveling around trying to find a 2SS to buy. Problem is that I have a trade in which has to be part of the deal..... So flying out there to pick the car up might not work right now.

I'm getting ready to call the General Sales manager here in a few hours to try to figure out what will make the deal go thru. If the minimum won't cut it i'll cancel my order. And then i'll talk to my lawyer, the better business bureau and everyone on Norcal-LS1, Norcal1320, Norcalvettes, etc will all know the story about the bait and switch tactic used by John L.....
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Old 06-25-2009, 01:14 PM   #27
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Wow I just got off the phone with damien and now I see this post... I too have an "order" with John L Sullivan and I am being told the same thing about 4000 dollars worth of extra stuff that myself nor my wife want. I was told MSRP from the beginning. Never mentioned about 4K worth of extra stuff. I am willing to grease the wheels maybe by ordering the tint and the car cover but I have my own car detailer that is going to do paint protection and I don't want the clear bra. Does anyone or did anyone do the financing up front prior to ordering???? I think that is the only thing that will protect us from this crap. It's bad business practice to do this especially in the 9th inning after stringing all of us along. I'm #5 right now in the ordering string and I placed my order in February. I was expecting the car in August sometime. I'm honestly thinking about traveling around trying to find a 2SS to buy. Problem is that I have a trade in which has to be part of the deal..... So flying out there to pick the car up might not work right now.

I'm getting ready to call the General Sales manager here in a few hours to try to figure out what will make the deal go thru. If the minimum won't cut it i'll cancel my order. And then i'll talk to my lawyer, the better business bureau and everyone on Norcal-LS1, Norcal1320, Norcalvettes, etc will all know the story about the bait and switch tactic used by John L.....
This bait and switch tactics is so cruel, mean spirited, idiotic, selfish, greedy, stupid thing any dealer can do.. Since the dealer is sticking you with so much crap you did not order, you should stick all those entities up his @5S and look for another dealer.. I would not give them your money or the satisfaction of the order..
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:28 PM   #28
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Update myself, summoner and mattdancer are three of John L Sullivans potential victims. I'm number 5, matt was ready to take delivery and I think summoner was #6. I think John had the KY already purchased and was getting ready to assrape matt real good followed by me....

I'm jumping ship as well as Matt, but not sure about summoner yet. I've already found a dealer that just gave me my price IN WRITING. And I moved UP on the allocation list to #3 at that dealership. So most likely no difference in wait time over what was expected. I have the fax sitting in my hand.

Soooo i'm thinking that just in this morning of updates John L Sullivan has just lost three pre-orders and about 20,000 in possible revenue. I'm thinking with the 3% holdback, price diff between invoice and MSRP and the obvious overhead of a 1500 dollar wax job they've just lost at least 20 racks....

Might wanna hold off on that KY there John.... unless you're going to use it on yourself..... The audacity of dudes that are already rich. The dude in the other thread was saying how nice John L was being about him wrecking his car in the first month of owning it (he bought the first V6 that was unveiled there and PAID the 4K in upgrades done to the car against his will cause they told him he had no choice)... I told him they're being nice to you cause they are going to grease you up for another turtle wax job that is going to cost you 1500 dollars and him about 150... Hell i'd let you have sex with my sister if you'd pay me 1500 bucks to wax your car....
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:39 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by outlawz View Post
Wow I just got off the phone with damien and now I see this post... I too have an "order" with John L Sullivan and I am being told the same thing about 4000 dollars worth of extra stuff that myself nor my wife want. I was told MSRP from the beginning. Never mentioned about 4K worth of extra stuff. I am willing to grease the wheels maybe by ordering the tint and the car cover but I have my own car detailer that is going to do paint protection and I don't want the clear bra. Does anyone or did anyone do the financing up front prior to ordering???? I think that is the only thing that will protect us from this crap. It's bad business practice to do this especially in the 9th inning after stringing all of us along. I'm #5 right now in the ordering string and I placed my order in February. I was expecting the car in August sometime. I'm honestly thinking about traveling around trying to find a 2SS to buy. Problem is that I have a trade in which has to be part of the deal..... So flying out there to pick the car up might not work right now.

I'm getting ready to call the General Sales manager here in a few hours to try to figure out what will make the deal go thru. If the minimum won't cut it i'll cancel my order. And then i'll talk to my lawyer, the better business bureau and everyone on Norcal-LS1, Norcal1320, Norcalvettes, etc will all know the story about the bait and switch tactic used by John L.....
WOW they just don't give a rip do they... I say we all go order elsewhere, spread the word, let them sale to people who like to take it in the tail pipe.
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:48 PM   #30
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Having the same experience with them, I ordered my car back in December, and have been told the whole time that they would sell it to me at MSRP with no markups, now that my car is due here in a week I am being told that they are adding $4000 to my car. They have had 7 months to tell me they were going to rip me off, and they tell me a week before my car gets here. With my car coming any day, I just wasted 7 months waiting for this car, and now will not buy it because of these lying swindlers.

I have been talking to EVERYONE at the dealership, what a bunch of lying scum bags they all are, I have talked to the salesmen there, two of the managers, the general manager, and even the Sullivans; they are all the same. Everyone one of them have told me the same thing as they have told paul, screw off.

I'm with you Paul, you have my number so give me a call and we will work on getting media and what not.
If you guys are serious, go for it! I'm in support of that! GM needs to step up to the plate and reel in these ridiculous dealers. THey are so arrogant in this downturned economy they should be giving a bunch of extras away to sell a car --the idea is to move VOLUME! The jerks can't help it they are so greedy and yes fellas that's whats wrong with our country GREED!! I mean, they already have a built in profit from GM, get real!!!
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:51 PM   #31
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WOW they just don't give a rip do they... I say we all go order elsewhere, spread the word, let them sale to people who like to take it in the tail pipe
check your PM's bro. I found a dealership....
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:07 PM   #32
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Update myself, summoner and mattdancer are three of John L Sullivans potential victims. I'm number 5, matt was ready to take delivery and I think summoner was #6. I think John had the KY already purchased and was getting ready to assrape matt real good followed by me....

I'm jumping ship as well as Matt, but not sure about summoner yet. I've already found a dealer that just gave me my price IN WRITING. And I moved UP on the allocation list to #3 at that dealership. So most likely no difference in wait time over what was expected. I have the fax sitting in my hand.

Soooo i'm thinking that just in this morning of updates John L Sullivan has just lost three pre-orders and about 20,000 in possible revenue. I'm thinking with the 3% holdback, price diff between invoice and MSRP and the obvious overhead of a 1500 dollar wax job they've just lost at least 20 racks....

Might wanna hold off on that KY there John.... unless you're going to use it on yourself..... The audacity of dudes that are already rich. The dude in the other thread was saying how nice John L was being about him wrecking his car in the first month of owning it (he bought the first V6 that was unveiled there and PAID the 4K in upgrades done to the car against his will cause they told him he had no choice)... I told him they're being nice to you cause they are going to grease you up for another turtle wax job that is going to cost you 1500 dollars and him about 150... Hell i'd let you have sex with my sister if you'd pay me 1500 bucks to wax your car....
Oh I jumped ship when I told Dave Rogers to screw off and hung up on him... I won't spend a penny at that damn dealer.
I am at #4 with Paul at Navoto! Thanks for the info outlawz.

The unfortunate thing about John L, is that they will sell all out orders for that mark up price... so they don't lose anything other than the potential sales they had prior to screwing all of us over if anyone takes our words to heart.

Also Jayson the guy who bought the V6 Victory Red at the unveiling jumped shipped to when this came out, he is going back east to get his and is taking his daughter for a nice road trip home for the summer! I wish him a safe trip!

Jayson we want pics!!

BTW Is your sister cute? and legal?
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:39 PM   #33
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WOW He already sent me my confirmed order via email...
This guy is good!
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:22 PM   #34
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I am sorry to hear that a few dealers are trying to force things on people that they don't want. I am still waiting to hear back from my dealer on pricing. I already know exactly what it should cost to the penny thanks to all of you and Camaro5. I will be calling my dealer and asking for a price in writing so I can arrange for financing ahead of delivery. If they can't give me the price I know it should be I will walk. I don't need the car, but I love it and would really like to have one. How ever I don't want to feel like I got screwed everytime I get in it either that would take away all the joy of owning it.
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:38 PM   #35
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Oh I jumped ship when I told Dave Rogers to screw off and hung up on him... I won't spend a penny at that damn dealer.
I am at #4 with Paul at Navoto! Thanks for the info outlawz.

The unfortunate thing about John L, is that they will sell all out orders for that mark up price... so they don't lose anything other than the potential sales they had prior to screwing all of us over if anyone takes our words to heart.

Also Jayson the guy who bought the V6 Victory Red at the unveiling jumped shipped to when this came out, he is going back east to get his and is taking his daughter for a nice road trip home for the summer! I wish him a safe trip!

Jayson we want pics!!

BTW Is your sister cute? and legal
Dude super glad it worked out for you and i'm also glad we could get an honest dealer some business. Yeah I heard about the dude that bought the unveiling car and his issue with it being crashed... I feel bad that I was so hard on him about John L being nice to him but it is what it is. I'm glad he's going back east and taking a road trip with his new baby. He could have bought a V8 for probably what he paid for JL Sullivans V6 car.

yeah my sister is hot. But she's married. To Guy Fieri from Food Network.. So you're gonna have to be rich and be on TV for her to give you some..

Quote:
WOW He already sent me my confirmed order via email...
This guy is good!
What did he send you? The order workbench with the 1100 code??? If so that's what I got over fax. Did it in like 10 minutes...
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:47 PM   #36
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Question for the gang... I've learned (from other camaro5ers) that my dealer charges a dealer fee of $599. This was never brought up before so I plan on refusing to pay it. If it was like $100 or something I might just say whatever but an extra $600 of profit on top of MSRP is inexcusable. My car isn't here yet so I'm wondering how this is going to end up. Between this and the MSRP change, I know I'm going to have a fight on my hands. But combined we're talking a difference of $1000 and I'm not going to roll over for that kinda money. The fee is "legal" here in FL but doesn't mean I have to let them pull that crap. So am I out on a limb here or am I justified in my 'ummm no' thought? How much "fees" have other people been seeing?
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:06 AM   #37
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I have a new Suggestion, Boycott the Camaro. That will get someones attention!!!
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:10 AM   #38
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Question for the gang... I've learned (from other camaro5ers) that my dealer charges a dealer fee of $599. This was never brought up before so I plan on refusing to pay it. If it was like $100 or something I might just say whatever but an extra $600 of profit on top of MSRP is inexcusable. My car isn't here yet so I'm wondering how this is going to end up. Between this and the MSRP change, I know I'm going to have a fight on my hands. But combined we're talking a difference of $1000 and I'm not going to roll over for that kinda money. The fee is "legal" here in FL but doesn't mean I have to let them pull that crap. So am I out on a limb here or am I justified in my 'ummm no' thought? How much "fees" have other people been seeing?
I hate to say it but unless you have a signed purchase agreement with a stated price and no other additional costs stated on it you will probably be screwed!!!. Doesn't sound like too many dealers are giving in. The Camaro is becoming an uglyier car to me every day due to dealer BS!!!!
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:16 AM   #39
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I hate to say it but unless you have a signed purchase agreement with a stated price and no other additional costs stated on it you will probably be screwed!!!. Doesn't sound like too many dealers are giving in. The Camaro is becoming an uglyier car to me every day due to dealer BS!!!!
This dealer fee is charged on all cars, not just the camaro.

I have my order signed stating "MSRP or less with incentives". No mention of "fees". I'm just going to state that the fees make it more than MSRP and therefore against our agreement. We'll see how that goes.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:04 AM   #40
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This dealer fee is charged on all cars, not just the camaro.

I have my order signed stating "MSRP or less with incentives". No mention of "fees". I'm just going to state that the fees make it more than MSRP and therefore against our agreement. We'll see how that goes.
It is true that some dealers charge a dealer prep fee on all cars they sell and it may be a fixed price per car, however they can make it whatever they want and get away with it. I have paid anywhere from 0.00 to 150.00 dealer prep. 600.00 sounds high
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:20 AM   #41
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I am sorry to hear that a few dealers are trying to force things on people that they don't want. I am still waiting to hear back from my dealer on pricing. I already know exactly what it should cost to the penny thanks to all of you and Camaro5. I will be calling my dealer and asking for a price in writing so I can arrange for financing ahead of delivery. If they can't give me the price I know it should be I will walk. I don't need the car, but I love it and would really like to have one. How ever I don't want to feel like I got screwed everytime I get in it either that would take away all the joy of owning it.
Thanks, and good luck with your order!

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Dude super glad it worked out for you and i'm also glad we could get an honest dealer some business. Yeah I heard about the dude that bought the unveiling car and his issue with it being crashed... I feel bad that I was so hard on him about John L being nice to him but it is what it is. I'm glad he's going back east and taking a road trip with his new baby. He could have bought a V8 for probably what he paid for JL Sullivans V6 car.

yeah my sister is hot. But she's married. To Guy Fieri from Food Network.. So you're gonna have to be rich and be on TV for her to give you some..

What did he send you? The order workbench with the 1100 code??? If so that's what I got over fax. Did it in like 10 minutes...
Yes me too, thanks again for the info!

Yeah he has a pretty good deal on a V8, I don't want to spoil his story so I'd rather he reply.

So you're pimpin out your sister and she is married... $1,500 buck for a wax job, I'd better be rich to pull that... no comment on your last part... I don't want to get banned for what I was going to say LOL

No he sent me an order summary, said when he gets the allocation, he will take my deposit and place the order. But nothing until then, so no workbench order yet. But the summary says it was accepted (code 1100)... weird. But yeah he sent it to me seriously like 10 min. later! He was very thorough, polite and explained everything to me (even though I knew most of it from being on Camaro5) but he explained how he was planning to order it and why etc...
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:22 AM   #42
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Question for the gang... I've learned (from other camaro5ers) that my dealer charges a dealer fee of $599. This was never brought up before so I plan on refusing to pay it. If it was like $100 or something I might just say whatever but an extra $600 of profit on top of MSRP is inexcusable. My car isn't here yet so I'm wondering how this is going to end up. Between this and the MSRP change, I know I'm going to have a fight on my hands. But combined we're talking a difference of $1000 and I'm not going to roll over for that kinda money. The fee is "legal" here in FL but doesn't mean I have to let them pull that crap. So am I out on a limb here or am I justified in my 'ummm no' thought? How much "fees" have other people been seeing?
Interesting they don't tell you what this "Fee" is? if not it's basically a mark up...
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:23 AM   #43
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This dealer fee is charged on all cars, not just the camaro.

I have my order signed stating "MSRP or less with incentives". No mention of "fees". I'm just going to state that the fees make it more than MSRP and therefore against our agreement. We'll see how that goes.
That sounds like a good plan of attack, but if they do it on all cars... they may not budge.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:36 AM   #44
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Interesting they don't tell you what this "Fee" is? if not it's basically a mark up...
Yup. It's just more profit.
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That sounds like a good plan of attack, but if they do it on all cars... they may not budge.
If this was any other car, I would have negotiated a price and this would've been counted in that price. In this case I negotiated MSRP so I'm expecting it to be part of that. At least that's how I'm looking at it. I have a feeling they'll stick to it knowing they can get several grand more if I refuse to pay their stupid fees. Going to be interesting either way. I'll make sure to report back the results.
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:43 AM   #45
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Yup. It's just more profit.

If this was any other car, I would have negotiated a price and this would've been counted in that price. In this case I negotiated MSRP so I'm expecting it to be part of that. At least that's how I'm looking at it. I have a feeling they'll stick to it knowing they can get several grand more if I refuse to pay their stupid fees. Going to be interesting either way. I'll make sure to report back the results.
Yeah.
Please do!
Good luck!
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Old 06-26-2009, 07:08 AM   #46
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UCF w00t and I have the same dealer lot and this is how my dealer at the lot has explained the dealer fee:

"599.95 dealer fee. I pay that, its over head, it will cover all service, gas detail and etc..."

Finally got out of him its not him or his GM but this dealership belongs to the AutoNation Group and it is them that mandate the dealer fee.

By chance there is proposed law going around the Florida House and Senate that will make dealer fees in Florida illegal just not soon enough to help us out.
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:47 AM   #47
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UCF w00t and I have the same dealer lot and this is how my dealer at the lot has explained the dealer fee:

"599.95 dealer fee. I pay that, its over head, it will cover all service, gas detail and etc..."

Finally got out of him its not him or his GM but this dealership belongs to the AutoNation Group and it is them that mandate the dealer fee.

By chance there is proposed law going around the Florida House and Senate that will make dealer fees in Florida illegal just not soon enough to help us out.
I see you saw the same articles I found . It can't be all autonation dealers because they have dealerships in states where the fee is illegal and other states where they put a cap on it. I assume you did see where in FL it's illegal for them to charge one customer the fee but not another. But they surely can drop the price of the vehicle down $600.
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:09 PM   #48
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I will post pictures soon, but thought I'd write a quick note on the experience yesterday of picking up my IMB RS Camaro. Everything was pretty typical until the financing stuff started and there was an extra $395 "protection package" tacked on. I refused to pay for it as my final order sheet and purchase price quote had all the taxes & fees and never mentioned the protection package addition. After about 20 minutes of the usual sales crap - "We add it to every car and it is not negotiable..." - the salesman said he was out of allocations and there were people willing to buy my car for $4000 over what I was paying. So, if I didn't want the car anymore he would sell it to someone on the waiting list and give me $2000 of the $4000; but, the $1500 down payment was not refundable! Bascially, he was going to give me $500 to walk away from the deal since I didn't want to pay for the crappy protection package. I actually thought long & hard about just walking away and just getting a Genesis coupe or 370Z, but I negotiated for some all-weather floor mats and trunk liner when they come in along with a couple of free oil changes and figured those would be close enough to the $395 profit package they were hawking. Other than that hassle everything went smooth & I'm finally driving my Camaro.
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:35 PM   #49
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BTW when I did the final order papers confirming the color & options being input to the factory I had to sign that the order was what I wanted. And, on that order sheet are the dealer invoice price and the MSRP price for the car and the options ordered. (I also checked to be sure the prices reflected the pre-order prices since everything went up just after March 16th.) Now, I can see how particular dealers may not see the signed order sheet as an actual contract; but, the signed order sheet with the final price of the car along with any verbal agreements on a MSRP sale will stand up in court in this state. I'm assuming everyone that pre-ordered had to come in and fill out (and sign) a final order sheet before the specified car order was released to the factory. I also know that won't keep them from trying to add dealer installed options but I still see the final order paperwork as a signed contract.
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Old 06-29-2009, 12:11 AM   #50
songsj
 
Drives: 2013 2LT/RS Summit White
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MPLS
Posts: 591
I can't wait until prices start coming down on these and people who ordered at MSRP start asking for 500.00 to 1K off MSRP when the car comes in because that will be the going rate. Just watch how all of a sudden the same agreement many dealers would not honor for many, all of a sudden becomes an iron clad contract that they don't want to let you out of.
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