Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
DJ Grilles
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing

Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing Discussions on mechanical maintenance and servicing of your Camaro

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-16-2014, 01:29 PM   #1
Apex Chase

 
Apex Chase's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,140
Talking The "Catch Can" Explained

Modern engines feature a variety of emission control devices and systems to reduce the toxic gases released into the atmosphere. One of these is called the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system. During the combustion process a small amount of gases leak or "blow-by" the piston rings and create a positive pressure in the crankcase. The PCV system vents these gases along with oil mist from the crankcase and routes it back into the intake manifold so it can be burned off. The problem is, over time the excess oil vapor collects along the inside of the intake tract and forms a "gunk". This can lead to a variety of issues including carbon build up, retarded timing, detonation, and power loss.

Oil pooling inside intake manifold


Carbon build up on intake valves



Going forward this carbon build up will become more and more of an issue. As automotive manufacturers continue to adopt Direct Injection (DI) technology in their now engine designs, any benefits that previously existed due to fuel washing over the intake valves will be lost. As you can see in the diagram below, with Direct Injection fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber. The LLT and LFX V6s in the Camaro are both DI engines as is the new LT1 in the C7 Stingray and all of the new LT based GM truck engines.



A "catch can" is an aftermarket device that will condense and collect the oil vapor before it has a chance to reach the intake system. As the gases and oil vapor enter the can they typically pass through a screening mechanism that gives the oil vapor something to adhere to. As the droplets form they drop harmlessly into the bottom of the reservoir so that they can later be drained. The other gases are allowed to pass through so that they can be burned of as intended.

Fluid captured in catch can after 800 miles


When it comes to selecting a catch can you will get what you pay for. Cheap catch cans (less than $100) are plentiful but they are often little more than an empty can with two ports. These will capture a small amount of fluid but the vast majority passes straight through and ends up where you don't want it. Be sure that the can is designed with an effective internal filtration and baffling system to pull the oil vapor out of suspension. Apex Motorsports and Elite Engineering catch cans are both great options for Camaro owners. As always, if you have questions regarding this or any topic the crew at Apex Motorsports is more than happy to answer them.
__________________

Last edited by Apex Chase; 03-16-2014 at 02:04 PM.
Apex Chase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 01:30 PM   #2
Apex Chase

 
Apex Chase's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,140
Seeing is believing. Here are a few posts by Camaro5 members after installing the Apex Motorsports catch can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis View Post
Well just emptied mine. Only on the car for about a week and a half now. I'd say she works better then the RX can I used to have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharmaro View Post
We cruised down to Somerset, KY for the powercruise which was about a 350 mile round trip, a portion of which had some uhh, spirited street driving. The catch can was bone dry prior to the cruise. This is a photo of the catch can later that night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11_Camaro View Post
I have driven about 1,000 miles since I installed the catch can a couple of months ago. I emptied it today. I had checked it about a week after installation and the can looked as clean as the day I bought it, so I began to wonder if had purchased something I didn't really need. The pic below makes me believe I made a good decision. Just thought I would share.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis View Post
It continues to work like a damn champ!





Anyone want a milkshake??
__________________
Apex Chase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 02:13 PM   #3
Todd in Vancouver
 
Todd in Vancouver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 552
Great write up.
__________________
Todd in Vancouver
'14 ZL1 Camaro
'67 Camaro SS Pro-tour in process

How hard can it be...
Check out my other build http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/9...ject-Obsession


Todd in Vancouver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 07:58 PM   #4
Bad@ssCamaro
Ist State Chevy Supporter
 
Bad@ssCamaro's Avatar
 
Drives: 1SS/1LE...in 2014
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Western MA
Posts: 4,790
Quote:
Originally Posted by not View Post
This is from another posting, seems catch-can sales must be down..........go figure...

From a write up on the LS3 engine, from the horse's mouth, and yet more proof why a catch-can is worthless on these type of GM V8's....so for those of that don't race, the system as built from the factory works fine. For all you racers, it may be a concern, but who cares, you are always tearing apart the engine swapping cams, etc., ha.
If you agree that it is of some use, what's with all the negativity of your posting? It's seems to me that it works especially well for those that drive "spiritedly" as evidenced by the photos shown above. Some people drive their vehicles hard without getting into swapping cams,etc..so it would probably necessitate having one. If someone want's to purchase something because they believe it benefits them, they will. I've been on this forum for almost three years and I haven't witnessed any threads that stated "This shi* is " So there are a vast majority of people that believe the product works.
__________________
Former Camaros: (gone but not forgotten)
1976 LT Black/Black 305 V8 (Bone Stock)
1976 LT Black/White 305 V8 (Bone Stock) except for Cragar chrome rims (yep - #2)
1985 Z-28 Black/Black 305 L69 M5(Bone Stock) I know: slow

Next Camaro:
CRT 1SS/RS/1LE

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
Bad@ssCamaro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 08:16 PM   #5
SGDM
Scorched Dark Earth
 
SGDM's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS RS 1LE
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North Texas
Posts: 795
__________________
ADM Performance Built: AGP Twin Turbo, LS9 Cam, NPP, 675 RWHP

Who Dares...Wins

Vini, Vidi, Nates, Calce Concidi!
SGDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 11:23 AM   #6
wakespeak
 
Drives: 2013 2SS LS3/NPP
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 418
The facts are clear that crankcase gases can be a significant component in the intake charge. See: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328400. Other direct injected engine manufacturers have their hands full as well. Toyota had some very public engine varnishing issues on their traditional port injected v6's.

With traditional port injected engines gasoline additives are usually effective in cleaning valves. I use Shell or Chevron for filling up. However there are still issues with coking of piston rings, and reduction of engine octane resulting from crankcase gases.

Do crankcase gases affect the LS3? In my experience - yes, in terms of affecting octane. Even with the 1LE clean side separator I still experienced audible pinging. This kept the engine from consistently remaining in the high octane fuel map, just when I started having fun. I also had misses at idle. Both annoyed the heck out of me. Now with a dirty side catch can, the situation has reversed from the engine running well on "good days", to running well most of the time. Having a cleaner intake and reduced chance of coked rings are great side benefits.

We have a Suburban, and right on schedule at 70K miles (per others' experience on the Internet), I started to get some oil burning despite frequent oil changes. The cause is said to coked piston rings due mostly to the AFM system, but accelerated by crankcase gases.

I love both cars, but manufacturers have limits to what they are willing and able to engineer into their products.
wakespeak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 04:05 PM   #7
Elite Engineering

 
Elite Engineering's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro View Post
If you agree that it is of some use, what's with all the negativity of your posting? It's seems to me that it works especially well for those that drive "spiritedly" as evidenced by the photos shown above. Some people drive their vehicles hard without getting into swapping cams,etc..so it would probably necessitate having one. If someone want's to purchase something because they believe it benefits them, they will. I've been on this forum for almost three years and I haven't witnessed any threads that stated "This shi* is " So there are a vast majority of people that believe the product works.
Agree, and the proof is in the bottom of the Catch Can. We have tons of pictures that show just how much oil is trapped before entering your intake.
__________________
Elite Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 04:52 PM   #8
JMWNERW

 
JMWNERW's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 RRM 2SS/RS/1LE
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Engineering View Post
Agree, and the proof is in the bottom of the Catch Can. We have tons of pictures that show just how much oil is trapped before entering your intake.
Very happy I installed mine within the first 50 miles
JMWNERW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 06:14 PM   #9
Mcarltonjr
 
Mcarltonjr's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F150 STX
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 140
I hope this isnt a stupid question as I am unfamiliar with the catch can, but where is it installed? I hear alot about it and from what i can see it sounds like a great investment.
Mcarltonjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 06:59 PM   #10
Apex Chase

 
Apex Chase's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcarltonjr View Post
I hope this isnt a stupid question as I am unfamiliar with the catch can, but where is it installed? I hear alot about it and from what i can see it sounds like a great investment.
They mount under your hood, typically on the passenger side. The thread below shows the install and a lot of pictures of the Apex catch can.

Apex Motorsports Catch Can - LS3 Install and First Impressions




__________________
Apex Chase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 07:50 PM   #11
45thAnniversary2SS

 
45thAnniversary2SS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 45th Anniversary 2SS LS3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,896
I used to be a skeptic as well, but figured why not for the price.

My only regret is waiting 10k miles to put it on. Mine catches several ounces between every oil change.
__________________
45thAnniversary2SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2014, 08:45 PM   #12
Mcarltonjr
 
Mcarltonjr's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 F150 STX
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 140
Consider my order placed this Friday. I'll make sure to mention these to any Camaro owners my family shop has come in as well.
Mcarltonjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 09:35 AM   #13
Elite Engineering

 
Elite Engineering's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcarltonjr View Post
Consider my order placed this Friday. I'll make sure to mention these to any Camaro owners my family shop has come in as well.

Yea, we all consider these as cheap insurance.
__________________
Elite Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 09:37 AM   #14
Apex Chase

 
Apex Chase's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by 45thAnniversary2SS View Post
I used to be a skeptic as well, but figured why not for the price.

My only regret is waiting 10k miles to put it on. Mine catches several ounces between every oil change.
It is the best investments you can make in the long term health of your engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcarltonjr View Post
Consider my order placed this Friday. I'll make sure to mention these to any Camaro owners my family shop has come in as well.
Thank you in advance for your order and any future business you may send our way.
__________________
Apex Chase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2014, 09:46 AM   #15
Apex Chase

 
Apex Chase's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,140
Posted yesterday in another thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethal Z View Post
Nothing speaks louder than seeing for yourself. Glad I put this on when my ZL is still under 2000 miles.

Just installed my can last week. This is after 100 miles of "combined" driving.

Thanks Apex!

__________________
Apex Chase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2014, 10:33 AM   #16
MagnumForceGB

 
MagnumForceGB's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Synergy Camaro
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newcastle, OK
Posts: 1,242
This is what my LLT Intake Manifold looked like after 500 miles from the last time I cleaned it when I didn't have a catch can. I have dual catch cans because I have a supercharger, but this oil was lowering my octane rating causing knock retard.

__________________
MagnumForceGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2014, 10:47 AM   #17
Elite Engineering

 
Elite Engineering's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB View Post
This is what my LLT Intake Manifold looked like after 500 miles from the last time I cleaned it when I didn't have a catch can. I have dual catch cans because I have a supercharger, but this oil was lowering my octane rating causing knock retard.

More solid evidence of why a good Catch Can is a great idea.
__________________
Elite Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2014, 11:32 AM   #18
mynetdude
 
Drives: 2014 Camaro 2LT RS V6 Silver
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 228
so two questions:

how do you know which catch can to use/get? There are 2 types; PCV and some other kind for turbo/super chargers???

How easy would it be to pull the intake manifold? Would I have to get new seals once taking the manifold off? I've got almost 900 miles on my new '14 C5 (I might get close to 1,000 miles today possibly)

Wouldn't seafoam clean the intake manifold better than taking it off to clean it?
mynetdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2014, 11:40 AM   #19
Blue Thunder
 
Blue Thunder's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 Chevy Camaro 1SS/RS
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chicagoland, Illinois
Posts: 75
My Elite can goes on this weekend. 3600 miles.

Sent from my Galaxy S4
__________________
2014 Chevy Camaro 1SS/RS L99 A6

Magnaflow 3" cat back exhaust
Range Device AFM disable
Elite Engineering Catch Can
CAI air intake
JL Audio 12w3 sub, JX1000/1d amp, Subthump box
CFD Carbon Fiber pistol grip shifter with TapShift
35% tint
3000k fog lights


Blue Thunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2014, 08:52 PM   #20
SGDM
Scorched Dark Earth
 
SGDM's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 2SS RS 1LE
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North Texas
Posts: 795
Don't be fooled...every 3000 miles, 2.2 oz. It works!
Attached Images
 
__________________
ADM Performance Built: AGP Twin Turbo, LS9 Cam, NPP, 675 RWHP

Who Dares...Wins

Vini, Vidi, Nates, Calce Concidi!
SGDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2014, 05:51 AM   #21
Bennett
 
Drives: 2013 2SSR/RS
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Huntsville,AL
Posts: 5
Skid pad Smoking

A couple weeks ago I participated in a performance driving school where one of the experiences we had was the skid pad. It was a 360 pad where we made numerous rotations both clockwise and counter clockwise. I made six rotations counterclockwise, changed directions and made two clockwise rotations when my 2013 Camaro SS with L99 started to billow white smoke from both tail pipes. My car is stock except for a cold air intake and Hotchkiss max brace. Was this white smoke caused by oil pooling in the valve cover and then entering the PCV system? Needless to say I stopped the skid pad event and a few minutes later the smoke cleared. I did notice that the oil pressure seemed lower than usual when the smoke started. For perspective sake when I say my car smoked I don't mean a little puff it billowed to the point that bystanders were unable to see my car and it started all at once. Would a catch can have prevented this or is there a defect in the valve cover baffle that allowed so much oil to enter the PCV system. Someone mentioned they had heard LS3/L99 motors are notorious for oil pooling in the valve cover during repetitive high G maneuvering. Looking for suggestions, catch can, manufacturers defect or classic LS3 issue.?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex Chase View Post
Modern engines feature a variety of emission control devices and systems to reduce the toxic gases released into the atmosphere. One of these is called the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system. During the combustion process a small amount of gases leak or "blow-by" the piston rings and create a positive pressure in the crankcase. The PCV system vents these gases along with oil mist from the crankcase and routes it back into the intake manifold so it can be burned off. The problem is, over time the excess oil vapor collects along the inside of the intake tract and forms a "gunk". This can lead to a variety of issues including carbon build up, retarded timing, detonation, and power loss.

Oil pooling inside intake manifold


Carbon build up on intake valves



Going forward this carbon build up will become more and more of an issue. As automotive manufacturers continue to adopt Direct Injection (DI) technology in their now engine designs, any benefits that previously existed due to fuel washing over the intake valves will be lost. As you can see in the diagram below, with Direct Injection fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber. The LLT and LFX V6s in the Camaro are both DI engines as is the new LT1 in the C7 Stingray and all of the new LT based GM truck engines.



A "catch can" is an aftermarket device that will condense and collect the oil vapor before it has a chance to reach the intake system. As the gases and oil vapor enter the can they typically pass through a screening mechanism that gives the oil vapor something to adhere to. As the droplets form they drop harmlessly into the bottom of the reservoir so that they can later be drained. The other gases are allowed to pass through so that they can be burned of as intended.

Fluid captured in catch can after 800 miles


When it comes to selecting a catch can you will get what you pay for. Cheap catch cans (less than $100) are plentiful but they are often little more than an empty can with two ports. These will capture a small amount of fluid but the vast majority passes straight through and ends up where you don't want it. Be sure that the can is designed with an effective internal filtration and baffling system to pull the oil vapor out of suspension. Apex Motorsports and Elite Engineering catch cans are both great options for Camaro owners. As always, if you have questions regarding this or any topic the crew at Apex Motorsports is more than happy to answer them.
Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2014, 08:41 AM   #22
Apex Chase

 
Apex Chase's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
A couple weeks ago I participated in a performance driving school where one of the experiences we had was the skid pad. It was a 360 pad where we made numerous rotations both clockwise and counter clockwise. I made six rotations counterclockwise, changed directions and made two clockwise rotations when my 2013 Camaro SS with L99 started to billow white smoke from both tail pipes. My car is stock except for a cold air intake and Hotchkiss max brace. Was this white smoke caused by oil pooling in the valve cover and then entering the PCV system? Needless to say I stopped the skid pad event and a few minutes later the smoke cleared. I did notice that the oil pressure seemed lower than usual when the smoke started. For perspective sake when I say my car smoked I don't mean a little puff it billowed to the point that bystanders were unable to see my car and it started all at once. Would a catch can have prevented this or is there a defect in the valve cover baffle that allowed so much oil to enter the PCV system. Someone mentioned they had heard LS3/L99 motors are notorious for oil pooling in the valve cover during repetitive high G maneuvering. Looking for suggestions, catch can, manufacturers defect or classic LS3 issue.?
Bright white smoke is usually coolant, if it have a blue tint it is oil. It could be any number of things but neither is a very good sign and is not something that having a catch can would have prevented. The first thing that I would be concerned about given the extended high-G conditions would be oil starvation.
__________________
Apex Chase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2014, 12:59 PM   #23
Bennett
 
Drives: 2013 2SSR/RS
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Huntsville,AL
Posts: 5
Forgot to mention a V-6 Mustang did the same thing a few groups later. I have driven my car almost daily since the episode with no unusual performance or indications of a problem.
Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2014, 09:37 AM   #24
USCAMARO14
 
USCAMARO14's Avatar
 
Drives: 2LS 2014
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Staten ISland
Posts: 527
Smile

I got this catch can it was one of the best things I did to my Camaro. I drove from New York to Massachusetts then to Florida and back. I was amaze how much oil it collected. I will recommend to this to everyone if you plan on keeping your Camaro for a long time.
__________________
USCAMARO14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 07:05 PM   #25
Apex Chase

 
Apex Chase's Avatar
 
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 22,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by USCAMARO14 View Post
I got this catch can it was one of the best things I did to my Camaro. I drove from New York to Massachusetts then to Florida and back. I was amaze how much oil it collected. I will recommend to this to everyone if you plan on keeping your Camaro for a long time.
The first time you check it can be a real eye opener.
__________________
Apex Chase is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
apex catch can, apex motorsports, catch can

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.