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Old 12-14-2012, 12:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zl1bro View Post
Do these differ in anyway from the Pfadt bars?
Time to find out.

OE ZL1 Front Bar 25mm Solid
OE ZL1 Rear Bar 28mm
Ratio 1.12

Brand-x Front Bar 25.4mm Hollow
Brand-x Rear Bar 34.88mm Hollow
Ratio 1.37

OE 1LE Front Bar 27mm Solid
OE 1LE Rear Bar 28mm Solid
Ratio 1.03

Pedders Z Front 27mm Solid
Pedders Z Rear 32mm Solid
Ratio 1.18

With the same diameter and the same material, a solid rod is stronger than a hollow pipe. However, with the same weight and material, the hollow pipe is stronger than a solid rod. Because a hollow pipe is lighter than a solid rod at the same diameter, the hollow pipe would have a larger diameter in order to match weights with the solid rod and a larger diameter rod or pipe is stronger than a smaller diameter one.

Very few hollow tube sway bar manufacturers publish the wall thickness of the tube they use. Typically it is .118. A much stronger bar would be made of .188. For our calculations we used a wall thickness of .188.



The solid bar is 21% stronger. For a .188 wall thickness tube to be stronger than the 25mm solid bar it would need an OD of 27mm. If the brand-x bars are made using .250 tubing the front bar would be of equal strength to the OEM bar that came with the car. Without knowing the exact wall thickness we can only estimate the strength. It is safe to say that the brand-x front bar is close in strength to the OE front bar. Maybe a little less strong or maybe a little bit stronger, but close to the OE bar. In the rear, there is a significant difference in bar size between brand-x and the OE bars. Depending on wall thickness the brand-x bar is functionally 3mm larger. Pedders rear bar is 4mm larger.

The ratio of bar diameter create a bias for understeer or oversteer. From the factory the ZL1 is the best balanced 5th Gen. and has a ratio of 1.12. The 1LE has a much less aggressive ratio at 1.03. The Brand-x bars come in at 1.37 with Pedders at 1.18. We believe our ratio to be dead nuts balls on correct for the 5th Gen.


Once again, these calculations are ESTIMATES as the wall thickness is not published for the bars.


There are other differences. The brand-x bar has a sliding adjustment for the rear endlink. In our engineering calculations which appear to be similar to those done at GM, the rear droplink functions best when vertically oriented to a straight up position in relation to the front or rear of the vehicle. Leaning the droplink toward the front of the vehicle or the rear of the vehicle, deviating front straight up, the assembly loses efficiency in function. That is why Pedders choose to adjust the strength / force of the rear bar with different durometers of bushes in the droplink. We maintain the optimal orientation and tune with harder of softer droplink bushes.

Sway Bar Straps are a big deal. They seem ordinary, but they are not.

Pedders 5th Gen Sway Bar Bushes and Straps




Other Brands



In summary, Pedders ZL1 sway offer greater role control, the most robust hardware and optimal efficiency. If we didn't believe that what we are selling is the absolute best for the ZL1 we shouldn't be selling it. I guarantee you will be thrilled with Pedders ZL1 bar upgrade. If you aren't I will personally refund your money. GUARANTEED.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:14 PM   #16
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LOL... Already a longtime member of Red Sox nation, tell me more about PEDDERS bars and maybe i will seek dual citizenship
I think we covered the bars in the last post. We have written a book about the 5th Gen. It is available here on C5. It isn't finished. It will be years before it is finished. It is updated as we move forward.

Pedders 2010 Chevrolet Camaro Suspension Evaluation

Foundational 5th Gen Required Upgrades

Lowering Coils and Coilovers

Trouble Free, OEM Quiet V6 Lowering

Sway Bars

Suspension Bushes

ZL1 / CTS-V Brake Upgrade for the SS

Wheels and Tires

Bush Timing, Alignment and Torque Specs

Pedders USA Camaro 2.0

Lingenfelter L/28 Tech

5th Gen Wheel Hop and Drag Race Setup

Thermal Management

Running Changes Made to the 5th Gen by Chevrolet

Public Track Test #1

Public Track Test #2 Camaro vs. Mustang Supercar Shootout

Caution: Test driving any Pedderised vehicle can be dangerous. Pedderised vehicles have been known to induce suspension envy and sleepless nights filled with longing. Before test-driving any Pedderised vehicle, check with your banking and accounting professionals. Pedderised vehicles are known to induce credit card bills and reduced bank balances. There is no antidote. Only genuine Pedders can cure Suspension Envy.
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
It is OFFICIAL!

Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates have been released for production. We'll have them in our online store and through our Dealer Network available for Pre-Orders. Retail $469.99 Pre-Order $399.99. A Deposit of $100 is Required. Guaranteed Delivery by March 1st 2013.


Ok call me stupid, but what the hell do they do for the car?
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Old 12-14-2012, 04:25 PM   #18
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Ok call me stupid, but what the hell do they do for the car?
Additional -1.8 degrees of camber
Indexed for Easy and Repeatable Adjustment
Improve Steering Angle Inclination (SAI)
Complete Replacement for the OEM Strut Mount and Bearing
Banded Thrust Bearing for Smooth Steering
Monoball for Strut Articulation
18mm Thick Plate for Strength, Will Not Bend During Adjustment
Fit ALL Brands of 5th Gen Coilovers

Short version. Your car drives better
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:39 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I think we covered the bars in the last post. We have written a book about the 5th Gen. It is available here on C5. It isn't finished. It will be years before it is finished. It is updated as we move forward.

Pedders 2010 Chevrolet Camaro Suspension Evaluation

Foundational 5th Gen Required Upgrades

Lowering Coils and Coilovers

Trouble Free, OEM Quiet V6 Lowering

Sway Bars

Suspension Bushes

ZL1 / CTS-V Brake Upgrade for the SS

Wheels and Tires

Bush Timing, Alignment and Torque Specs

Pedders USA Camaro 2.0

Lingenfelter L/28 Tech

5th Gen Wheel Hop and Drag Race Setup

Thermal Management

Running Changes Made to the 5th Gen by Chevrolet

Public Track Test #1

Public Track Test #2 Camaro vs. Mustang Supercar Shootout

Caution: Test driving any Pedderised vehicle can be dangerous. Pedderised vehicles have been known to induce suspension envy and sleepless nights filled with longing. Before test-driving any Pedderised vehicle, check with your banking and accounting professionals. Pedderised vehicles are known to induce credit card bills and reduced bank balances. There is no antidote. Only genuine Pedders can cure Suspension Envy.
I'm sold. Will be placing my order soon. Thanks for the information!
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:51 PM   #20
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Welcome to the PEDDERS NATION.
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:00 PM   #21
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Welcome to the PEDDERS NATION.
Thanks! Btw do your upgraded camber plates work with the stock ZL1 set up, plug and play?
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:03 PM   #22
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Thanks! Btw do your upgraded camber plates work with the stock ZL1 set up, plug and play?
They only work with coilovers. Do you plan to track your ZL1?
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:54 PM   #23
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They only work with coilovers. Do you plan to track your ZL1?
Yes, weekend track car. Street car during the week... Coilovers are a fairly significant investment right? With coilovers do you still keep PTM and everything else the same?
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:19 PM   #24
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Yes, weekend track car. Street car during the week... Coilovers are a fairly significant investment right? With coilovers do you still keep PTM and everything else the same?
The best track package for a ZL1 IMO
  • Z Bar Upgrade
  • EP6577 Steel Jacketed Radius Arm Bushes
  • EP1201HD Sub-Frame Bushes
  • EP7565Z Steel Jacketed Urethane Trailing Arm Bushes (both ends of the arm)
  • Pedders Z Spec Lowering Coils
  • Pedders Road Course Alignment Specs
  • Dedicated Square Track Wheel and Tire Package
This maintains 100% functionality of the MRC, PTM and SC. Ride quality remains excellent. Setup like this you ZL1 will feel as improved as moving from an SS to a ZL1. Maybe that is a bit of overstatement, but it is hard to describe how much better it will be.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:21 PM   #25
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...if I were to upgrade my car right now...first thing I would do is to send my ride to Pedders for the full Monty....
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:35 AM   #26
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Pete, What are the Pedders Road Course Alignment specs? Thanks!
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:44 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The best track package for a ZL1 IMO
  • Z Bar Upgrade
  • EP6577 Steel Jacketed Radius Arm Bushes
  • EP1201HD Sub-Frame Bushes
  • EP7565Z Steel Jacketed Urethane Trailing Arm Bushes (both ends of the arm)
  • Pedders Z Spec Lowering Coils
  • Pedders Road Course Alignment Specs
  • Dedicated Square Track Wheel and Tire Package
This maintains 100% functionality of the MRC, PTM and SC. Ride quality remains excellent. Setup like this you ZL1 will feel as improved as moving from an SS to a ZL1. Maybe that is a bit of overstatement, but it is hard to describe how much better it will be.
Do you sell all these upgrades as a ZL1 Track/Street package?
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:59 PM   #28
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Thanks for the great info. Can you upgrade in stages, like the bars and some of the other components (would like to hold off for now on the coils and wheel and tire package). And if so, what would you recommend starting with? Or does it really only make sense to do the complete package as a total system all at once?
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