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Old 07-25-2012, 08:23 AM   #1
FaytalsCamaro
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Manual Driving Vets

So this is the first manual vehicle I have had and to be quite honest with you I don't think I'll ever go back to driving an automatic. Anyways it's been awhile since I've stalled so I'm pretty proud of myself.

I do have some questions and hope to get some insight and advice from you vets though. Im just gonna list off some of the things I do and have heard and you guys can comment on them.

I ALWAYS take turns in second gear. Is it ok to take them in third? Or does it just depend on your speed?

I USED to take off from a stop in second also to avoid the skipshift. But lately I have been going from First to Third, First to Fourth seems to bog down too much.

Rev Matching: How do I know the correct RPMs? For example awhile back there was a thread here with a poll asking what everyones favorite gear. Most said third. So I tried it out on the highway. ( Cheese and Rice does it get up and go) But let say Im going about 65 on the highway in 6th. What should my RPMs be at before I downshift to third and go?

When coming to a stop a always shift to neutral and cruise to a stop. Should I be downshifting through the gears to come to a stop? And when I'm at a stop I always stay in neutral till I'm Ready to go.


Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance!!!!
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:33 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
So this is the first manual vehicle I have had and to be quite honest with you I don't think I'll ever go back to driving an automatic. Anyways it's been awhile since I've stalled so I'm pretty proud of myself.

I do have some questions and hope to get some insight and advice from you vets though. Im just gonna list off some of the things I do and have heard and you guys can comment on them.

I ALWAYS take turns in second gear. Is it ok to take them in third? Or does it just depend on your speed? - Depends on your speed, but second is always more fun.

I USED to take off from a stop in second also to avoid the skipshift. But lately I have been going from First to Third, First to Fourth seems to bog down too much.

Rev Matching: How do I know the correct RPMs? For example awhile back there was a thread here with a poll asking what everyones favorite gear. Most said third. So I tried it out on the highway. ( Cheese and Rice does it get up and go) But let say Im going about 65 on the highway in 6th. What should my RPMs be at before I downshift to third and go? - Dont worry about revs. Just use the clutch, downshift and hang on.

When coming to a stop a always shift to neutral and cruise to a stop. Should I be downshifting through the gears to come to a stop? And when I'm at a stop I always stay in neutral till I'm Ready to go. - It's up to you. Downshifting uses more gas, but braking uses your brakes so causes wear. That being said, I am of the opinion that it is more economical to just brake.


Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance!!!!
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:50 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
So this is the first manual vehicle I have had and to be quite honest with you I don't think I'll ever go back to driving an automatic. Anyways it's been awhile since I've stalled so I'm pretty proud of myself.

I do have some questions and hope to get some insight and advice from you vets though. Im just gonna list off some of the things I do and have heard and you guys can comment on them.

I ALWAYS take turns in second gear. Is it ok to take them in third? Or does it just depend on your speed?

I USED to take off from a stop in second also to avoid the skipshift. But lately I have been going from First to Third, First to Fourth seems to bog down too much.

Rev Matching: How do I know the correct RPMs? For example awhile back there was a thread here with a poll asking what everyones favorite gear. Most said third. So I tried it out on the highway. ( Cheese and Rice does it get up and go) But let say Im going about 65 on the highway in 6th. What should my RPMs be at before I downshift to third and go?

When coming to a stop a always shift to neutral and cruise to a stop. Should I be downshifting through the gears to come to a stop? And when I'm at a stop I always stay in neutral till I'm Ready to go.


Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance!!!!

2nd or 3rd in a corner depends upon your speed and situation. Turning down a residential street, 3rd, city intersection usually 2nd for me.

Skip shift - hate it. When the indicater comes up, tap the accel and you can go into 2nd. If your driving very docile, 3rd is fine but dont expect neck ripping take offs until the RPM's come up. If you were driving harder in first, this would be a moot point.

Running in third on the highway at speed and watch the gas trickle away. I've been known to run 85 and drop into 3rd, chirp the tires and go. Third usually runs out about 105 or so.

Coming to a stop, shift into neutral and coast. When you are waiting for a light stay in neutral and keep your foot off the clutch. Shift when the light changes if you're behind someone. You can get into gear and load the drivetrain before most people step on the gas! Unless of coarse you are first in line and want to run!!!!!

FYI -- coasting to a stop IMO is better for the car and wallet, brakes are cheaper than a clutch.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:57 AM   #4
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The gear I choose for a turn is third but really depends where I am. If I am in the calm side of my town where I live 3rd is fine. But chances are if there is a lot of traffic you will need 2nd.

Rev matching I have no clue. I am new to booth driving a stick. Only been 3 almost 4 years for both. So I still have to learn

Now for braking. It depends on my situation. If a hard stop yes straight to neutral for me. If I know I'm going to have to come to a stop I usually am always in 6th so I switch up to 5th and coast to the light and I go to neutral at around 15mph. My dad told me to always try to do that because it will help you save your breaks while only going up a gear won't wear the clutch really.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:17 AM   #5
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Thanks for all the input guys!
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:59 AM   #6
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Rev matching is just as much an art as it is a science.

I don't really just recommend "drop a gear and hang on' cuz then you'll get that lurch/stutter feel. I usually try to guess-timate the R's, bring them up and let the clutch out steadily.

My skip shift is gone since the supercharger, but I tried not to drive to docile in first. You can wind the gear up pretty well without going to hard, you just have to get used to it.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
So this is the first manual vehicle I have had and to be quite honest with you I don't think I'll ever go back to driving an automatic. Anyways it's been awhile since I've stalled so I'm pretty proud of myself. Nice!

I do have some questions and hope to get some insight and advice from you vets though. Im just gonna list off some of the things I do and have heard and you guys can comment on them. Ok bring them on....

I ALWAYS take turns in second gear. Is it ok to take them in third? Or does it just depend on your speed? Yeah sure you can take them in third if you are going fast enough.

I USED to take off from a stop in second also to avoid the skipshift. But lately I have been going from First to Third, First to Fourth seems to bog down too much. That's perfectly fine, I've gone from first to sixth many times with no problems.

Rev Matching: How do I know the correct RPMs? Practice, practice practice

For example awhile back there was a thread here with a poll asking what everyones favorite gear. Most said third. So I tried it out on the highway. ( Cheese and Rice does it get up and go) But let say Im going about 65 on the highway in 6th. What should my RPMs be at before I downshift to third and go? Depends on the feel, which you will only recognize after doing the above response

When coming to a stop a always shift to neutral and cruise to a stop. Should I be downshifting through the gears to come to a stop? And when I'm at a stop I always stay in neutral till I'm Ready to go. Not necessary to downshift, if you do that you actually wear out your clutch a little since you're not gassing it. I've always shifted into neutral and then applied the brakes, no problems yet.


Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance!!!!
Hope this helps
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
So this is the first manual vehicle I have had and to be quite honest with you I don't think I'll ever go back to driving an automatic. Anyways it's been awhile since I've stalled so I'm pretty proud of myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post

I do have some questions and hope to get some insight and advice from you vets though. Im just gonna list off some of the things I do and have heard and you guys can comment on them.

I ALWAYS take turns in second gear. Is it ok to take them in third? Or does it just depend on your speed?

I USED to take off from a stop in second also to avoid the skipshift. But lately I have been going from First to Third, First to Fourth seems to bog down too much.

Rev Matching: How do I know the correct RPMs? For example awhile back there was a thread here with a poll asking what everyones favorite gear. Most said third. So I tried it out on the highway. ( Cheese and Rice does it get up and go) But let say Im going about 65 on the highway in 6th. What should my RPMs be at before I downshift to third and go?

When coming to a stop a always shift to neutral and cruise to a stop. Should I be downshifting through the gears to come to a stop? And when I'm at a stop I always stay in neutral till I'm Ready to go.


Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance!!!!



  • Depends on your speed and how much power you want to have going through the turn.
  • 1st to 4th does bog the engine pretty bad from my experience as well. Buy a skipshift. Best 20 bucks I ever spent on this car.
  • You just need to know through experience with that car. Just on the top of my head, 65 in 3rd would be around 3.5k RPM.
  • I NEVER keep it in neutral when coming to a stop. IMO, it’s bad form and a amateur thing. You should always keep the car in gear when slowing down incase you need power instantly for emergency maneuvers. Good luck doing that in neutral.
  • Also, I keep my foot on the clutch at a red light. I feel that if I ever get rear ended hard enough that it knocks me out, the car would stall out because it’s in gear. If it’s in neutral, the car will keep running…I wouldn’t want my car running with a leaking gas tank or what have you when I’m out cold.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:35 AM   #9
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The skip shift only comes on if your throttle is less than 30% pressed. If you stay in 1st a little longer it will not ask you to go into 4th. Also it does not force you into 4th, a flap just comes up in the gearbox to help guide you into 4th, you can still go in 2nd.

Frankly, I've saved quite a bit on gas just doing 1st to 4th skip. Though I have a harder time these days with the Borla ATAK and CAI.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:38 AM   #10
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This all makes me think I should have gotten a stick and just forced myself to learn to drive it :(

Maybe when I get a 2016...
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:42 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
I ALWAYS take turns in second gear. Is it ok to take them in third? Or does it just depend on your speed?
Depends on speed. I drive my Camaro aggressively as its not a dd, just a toy. I take 90° green light turns in first. For DD type driving I'd turn in the 2-3K rpm range (2nd gear for 90° green light turns).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
I USED to take off from a stop in second also to avoid the skipshift. But lately I have been going from First to Third, First to Fourth seems to bog down too much.
Skip shift eliminator? Cheap and takes 5 min to put on.
I take off in 1st. I only go 1st to 3rd if I'm stuck in traffic and driving at someone elses pace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
Rev Matching: How do I know the correct RPMs? For example awhile back there was a thread here with a poll asking what everyones favorite gear. Most said third. So I tried it out on the highway. ( Cheese and Rice does it get up and go) But let say Im going about 65 on the highway in 6th. What should my RPMs be at before I downshift to third and go?
at 65 I'd want to have my RPMs around 5k when I let out the clutch to go to 3rd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
When coming to a stop a always shift to neutral and cruise to a stop. Should I be downshifting through the gears to come to a stop? And when I'm at a stop I always stay in neutral till I'm Ready to go.
By habit, I downshift often without braking very much until I need to. But again, aggressive driver and I care nothing about clutch life span. In my Camaro I'm out to enjoy the drive. There is no need to downshift. You can throw it in N and let out the clutch if you please, doesn't hurt anything. I'm a clutch in guy though. Unless I'm going to be parked for over ~60 seconds I hold in the clutch and leave it in 1.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
So this is the first manual vehicle I have had and to be quite honest with you I don't think I'll ever go back to driving an automatic. Anyways it's been awhile since I've stalled so I'm pretty proud of myself.

I do have some questions and hope to get some insight and advice from you vets though. Im just gonna list off some of the things I do and have heard and you guys can comment on them.

I ALWAYS take turns in second gear. Is it ok to take them in third? Or does it just depend on your speed?

Depends on the speed.


I USED to take off from a stop in second also to avoid the skipshift. But lately I have been going from First to Third, First to Fourth seems to bog down too much.

Buy a skip shift eliminator. That is the best solution for this IMO. Or you can just give it a little more gas .And agree the car bog down a lot when you went from 1st to 4th.


Rev Matching: How do I know the correct RPMs? For example awhile back there was a thread here with a poll asking what everyones favorite gear. Most said third. So I tried it out on the highway. ( Cheese and Rice does it get up and go) But let say Im going about 65 on the highway in 6th. What should my RPMs be at before I downshift to third and go?

this will take some practice but I found the easiest way to do it is to go for a drive. On the drive get up to 60mph and shift as you normally would. Once you reach 3rd gear dont upshift just stay in that gear till you reach 60mph. Once you reach 60mph the tach will show the rpms for 60mph in 3rd. Essentially you can do this with any given MPH and GEAR. I did this when i got the v8 as I was used to the v6 higher revs and had a few OH moments when i downshifted .

When coming to a stop a always shift to neutral and cruise to a stop. Should I be downshifting through the gears to come to a stop? And when I'm at a stop I always stay in neutral till I'm Ready to go.

You got this down

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance!!!!
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:49 AM   #13
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at 65 I'd want to have my RPMs around 5k when I let out the clutch to go to 3rd.
I'd like to elaborate on that a bit to maybe save someone an insurance bill.

If you downshift with the intent of speeding away and you are low on the RPMs it will by default (ECU) revmatch to keep the tires from breaking loose. But you will still throw weight forward. And if you immediately floor it you run the risk of losing the ass end on slick surfaces.

Personally I drive with all nannies off and can downshift scratch (do it often approaching turns). An unskilled driver could easily loose the ass if they downshifted low in the RPMs and immediately floored it with the nannies off on a slick surface. Then they will likely over correct and end up smashing into the car they were trying to impress.

(in my best get rid of cable commercial mockery)

Don't smash into a car you are trying to impress.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:00 PM   #14
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I'd like to elaborate on that a bit to maybe save someone an insurance bill.

If you downshift with the intent of speeding away and you are low on the RPMs it will by default (ECU) revmatch to keep the tires from breaking loose. But you will still throw weight forward. And if you immediately floor it you run the risk of losing the ass end on slick surfaces.

Personally I drive with all nannies off and can downshift scratch (do it often approaching turns). An unskilled driver could easily loose the ass if they downshifted low in the RPMs and immediately floored it with the nannies off on a slick surface. Then they will likely over correct and end up smashing into the car they were trying to impress.

(in my best get rid of cable commercial mockery)

Don't smash into a car you are trying to impress.
That happen to me when i first got the car but with nannies on and lets just say that I almost dookie myself
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:25 PM   #15
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bowtie v 6 . c o m/forum/download/file.php?id=1404&sid=a733378da3a21ccf72519da91c2ff 303&mode=view

(remove the spaces)

Start multiplying for your rev matches. Example, you drive a v6 in fifth gear and it's 1.0, you want to drop to 2nd? multiply your current RPMs by roughly 2.5, so if you are going in 5th at 2k, then you want 2nd at 4.5k

I enjoy math, once you learn your ratios and can multiply quickly in your head you will be fine... or just use rough estimates
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:28 PM   #16
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That happen to me when i first got the car but with nannies on and lets just say that I almost dookie myself
yeah, its more likely going to second to loose the ass. But under the right conditions if you perform a poor downshift at highway speed and floor it, you can loose it.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:33 PM   #17
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The skip shift doesn't seem to mind if you go to 3rd instead of 4th. 4th does seem too high most of the time when the skipshift asks for it.

Rev-matching the downshift takes experience. You just have to be sure you won't hit the redline if you downshift.

I coast to stops. I used to downshift. Nessal's right; you won't have any power. But if you're paying attention, you should have plenty of time to apply power if you suddenly need it.

I disagree about leaving your car in gear at lights. First, it becomes tiring. Second, what if you faint or have a heart attack or simply get rear ended? The last thing you need is for your car to launch into an interesection at the very moment you've lost control.

You'll figure it all out. It's fun, isn't it?
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ChibiBlackSheep View Post
bowtie v 6 . c o m/forum/download/file.php?id=1404&sid=a733378da3a21ccf72519da91c2ff 303&mode=view

(remove the spaces)

Start multiplying for your rev matches. Example, you drive a v6 in fifth gear and it's 1.0, you want to drop to 2nd? multiply your current RPMs by roughly 2.5, so if you are going in 5th at 2k, then you want 2nd at 4.5k

I enjoy math, once you learn your ratios and can multiply quickly in your head you will be fine... or just use rough estimates
You just turned driving into work!
I like math, but not while I'm driving. OK, sometimes I will try to compute how many more miles I can go on a tank or who much longer a trip is... but not during gearshifts.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:51 PM   #19
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I drive the shit out of mine. Change the oil, put premium fuel in it. It's all I can do. Did the same thing with my Chevelle, except it was more oil changes, more premium fuel. 1 to 4 don't bother me cause I shift at a minimum of 2500. Don't buy used. ha.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:44 PM   #20
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How can you pick any gear and decide 'this is the gear I make turns in'? Choose the gear that meets your needs for whatever speed you are carrying.

Why choose to start in second to miss the skipshift? Just shift out of first at an rpm that isn't affected by skipshift. Try 2,000 rpm. Skipshift saving gas does not compute with me, the way the car bogs. I can see it being dangerous, in fact, as the car has no grunt, and gee, here comes a truck blowing a red light. Better economy tip: 1-2-4-6

Rev matching? Why are you worried about this? Are you driving at 9/10ths and need that extra competitive edge? Rev matching is a nice skill to have. But you don't need to use it. Ever, really, until you race for real.

Re: downshifting to come to a stop. Of course. But that doesn't mean 'breaking the tires free on downshift'. You choose the gear appropriate for any speed, whether accelerating or decelerating. Let's say you're coming to a stop from 35 mph and you're in 4th gear. You stay in fourth as you brake. Oops, now you're doing 25 mph and you don't need to stop. You're in 4th gear. For God's sake, why? I'd be in second. At a stop, neutral sure. At 5mph in a coast and I know I'm stopping? Neutral

When you drive an manual, think about what an automatic transmission is doing. It upshifts and downshifts depending on RPM. You're doing nothing different.
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Old 07-26-2012, 01:51 AM   #21
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Rev matching is more of a feel thing for me. Don't really think of it in terms of mutlipliers or even rpms. More like, "What sound does 3rd normally make at this speed?" Blip the throttle to get near the sound and then a swifter than normal clutch release (not a dump, but quick) and the gas. It takes time to get to know the car and the sound and feel of things at different gears and speeds.

While it is a necessity in a race/track setting, it is also good in every day driving: it lessens powertrain thrash; helps syncros mesh up for easier shifts (get very good at it and you don't even have to use the clutch to shift into the next gear); makes the ride for passengers more comfortable; and in the event you do need to zip around something in an emergency having it down can mean the difference between breaking the tires loose due to a bad downshift or safely negotiating the pass.

And it sounds cool and impresses gearhead friends.

Whatever you do, don't practice this or even try a normally executed aggressive downshift while in a turn (sweeper or tight). It is very easy to break the rear loose on these cars when downshifting aggressively (large gear jump and/or too-fast clutch release without proper rev match). Doing so in a turn can be the start of a very bad day. Stabilitrac will save you in some (perhaps many) cases, but I wouldn't test it at high speed.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:33 PM   #22
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when i drove sticks i'd let the sounds the engine and car make tell me when and how it should be shifted i know it's kinda lame but i learned to drive on a stick at 13 and that became second nature for me ...if you can pull away up hill from a standing start and not roll backwards or burn your clutch you will have mastered your stick shift...that's what i taught my kids when i taught them to drive a stick
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:59 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
So this is the first manual vehicle I have had and to be quite honest with you I don't think I'll ever go back to driving an automatic. Anyways it's been awhile since I've stalled so I'm pretty proud of myself.

I do have some questions and hope to get some insight and advice from you vets though. Im just gonna list off some of the things I do and have heard and you guys can comment on them.

I ALWAYS take turns in second gear. Is it ok to take them in third? Or does it just depend on your speed?

Depends on your speed. If your car was a 4-speed or 5-speed, 2nd would be the most likely suspect for most 90 degree/corner turns. With the 6-speed and torque of the new Camaro motors, it's usually a toss-up between 2nd or 3rd for corners depending on the conditions, sight distance, etc, and how hard you want to pull out of the corner.

I USED to take off from a stop in second also to avoid the skipshift. But lately I have been going from First to Third, First to Fourth seems to bog down too much.

I'd advise against taking off in 2nd. To take off in 2nd, you have to slip the clutch a little more than normal...that's unnecessary wear. I'd take off in 1st and then decide where to go from there.

Skip shift does momentarily lock you out of everything but 4th gear. If you wait a second, the program will terminate and you can shift into any other gear. I'm really not a fan of the skipshift program...as mentioned, a ~$20 part (basically a pigtail that connects to a wiring harness coming off the trans) will eliminate the program. FYI...I haven't purchased a skipshift eliminator, so I usually slowly shift to 3rd, or if I get skip-shifted out of my next gear, I ride 1st a little harder.

Rev Matching: How do I know the correct RPMs? For example awhile back there was a thread here with a poll asking what everyones favorite gear. Most said third. So I tried it out on the highway. ( Cheese and Rice does it get up and go) But let say Im going about 65 on the highway in 6th. What should my RPMs be at before I downshift to third and go?

You can do a mental math exercise if you know your gear ratios (not practical, if you're dumb like most of us). Or, you can watch and practice. For instance, if I'm in 4th gear, I know I'm going approximately 35mph at right around 1800rpm. If I want to go to 3rd, the RPM's will be higher. Probably around 2400rpm or so. So, shift down and blip the throttle. If you didn't blip enough, you'll feel the car slow as you shift/clutch out into a lower gear. If you blipped too much, you'll feel the car accelerate as you shift/clutch out to a lower gear. "Just right" means you can let out the clutch out with zero slipping or jerkiness in the ride of the vehicle as the speed of the engine and speed of the transmission input shaft are spinning at the same speed, requiring zero slipping of the clutch. Practice comes from memorizing certain points of RPM, speed, and gear selection. Or mental math, if you're crazy Some rev matching is better than none...it really grinds my gears (pun) when people shift to a lower gear and just let out the clutch. It wears the clutch and unsettles the car, annoys passengers like me.

When coming to a stop a always shift to neutral and cruise to a stop. Should I be downshifting through the gears to come to a stop? And when I'm at a stop I always stay in neutral till I'm Ready to go.

I think practical driver's training advises that you keep the car in gear all the time. My style is slightly modified...I do keep the car in gear while I slow to a stop, but the gear is dependent on how fast I was going. I can ride 4th down to 20mph or so, 3rd down to 12 or whatever. I don't downshift through ever gear, I basically clutch in a hundred or two RPM before the car would want to buck ("lug") if I went any slower. This creates for a really smooth stop, and clutching in should be seamless/unfelt. While stopped, I keep my foot on the brake, clutch out, gearbox in neutral. I watch traffic and lights, and shift to 1st before my light turns green. It gives my foot a rest, keeps wear off the throwout bearing.



Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance!!!!

Do what feels natural. It's best to practice rev matching when you're NOT driving for performance. See if you can perfectly rev match while putting around town. Practice at higher speeds/RPM as you get more comfortable. It's a smooth driving skill just as much as it's a performance driving skill.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:07 AM   #24
shrinkdoc

 
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Nawww...you are just wasting gas if you start downshift to stop the car. Just mash the clutch and brake to stop it. Just downshift if on steep inclines to save your brakes.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:02 AM   #25
IPT

 
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I'm no expert, but as mention I just blip the throttle and let out the clutch to rev match as I downshift. Then it's sort of simulataneously onto the gas. I've never lurched or chirped doing it that way, it's quite smooth actually.

I tend to maybe downshift one gear or just let the car decelerate in the gear I am in as I come up to a light. I'll then clutch it around 1000 RPMS sometimes a little lower if am feeling lazy and want to push it. Then I am into neutral waiting. Clutch in, 1st gear when I see the yellow light go for the traffic going cross the intersection and I am ready to go.
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