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Old 12-21-2012, 07:39 PM   #324
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interesting, very interesting, very very interesting!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:46 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by ZL1LEGEND View Post
I have to agree. It's been said that the 427 will no longer be offered in the corvette after 2013. If this is the case, there is no way it would be offered in the camaro.

Interesting though.
There is no LS7 in the C7 Vette. Confirmed. That is the ONLY reason those LS7 motors are available for the Z/28. Don't forget that it is the EPA tlimits number of LS7s GM can install in production cars for the MY 2014. As a 5th Gen addict I'll take those LS7s C6 Vette leftovers in a 5th Gen all day long.
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Old 12-21-2012, 07:57 PM   #326
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LS7 Camaro

Already transplanted an LS7 in my SS. All forged internals, blueprinted, 305cc heads. Makes about 630hp at the crank naturally aspirated.
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:00 PM   #327
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That is one beautiful engine sir
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:06 PM   #328
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LS7

Here is one more photo. It is not easy to make extreme horsepower on a naturally aspirated motor.

The LS 7 has no shortage of torque. I spoke with the engineers from GM Powertrain Division at SEMA two years ago. They believed that the LS 7 would be abandoned because the 6.2 liter motors were making as much power with the help of superchargers.
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:08 PM   #329
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Well as you mentioned the LS7 is not short on torque and thats what makes most street cars "feel" fast. Most street cars may redline every now and then, but for the most part its the lower RPM torque that is felt. Thats why I say LS7 all the way!!!!
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:51 PM   #330
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6.2s with blowers may make as much power but that comes with all the weight and issues of the blower.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:13 PM   #331
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6.2 L blower motors

Yeah the blower motors make a lot of power but push them enough they blow up.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:39 PM   #332
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This is very interesting... I wonder what this would be priced at? Obviously they can't/shouldn't charge ZL1 prices because then it wouldn't sell unless they were some stupid super limited edition... Perhaps mid 40k? I was also waiting to see what the 6th gen ended up looking like, but if this is true and one could be picked up for low-mid 40k I'd definitely think about trading my 2010
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:51 PM   #333
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Could be the optional engine for the zl1 naturally aspirated touring edition? Who knows could be that monkeys will fly........
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:14 PM   #334
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This all makes my stomach hurt
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I wonder if this could be why my car idles like its retarded...
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:33 PM   #335
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I have 50k in my account right now ready to part with. Just give me a date.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:51 PM   #336
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Wow...I've had the itch to go trade my 2010 for a 1le or maybe even a zl1 (ha, I can dream). But if z28 comes out in hot wheels blue (or similar color) then I will likely pull the trigger even though the 6th is on the horizon. Magnetic ride would be a nice touch.

(blue blue blue, anyone from GM paying attention?)
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:11 AM   #337
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Z/28

Ever since my wife decided that I wanted a new Camaro, I have been trolling and trying to find out what is available and what I want. Honestly, even going through the Chevy car builder wasn't clear enough. Since then, I've gotten everything straightened out.

But I wondered why everyone was waiting around specifically for a Z/28. To me, everything seemed to be covered. So, I did a little poking around on the Internet and this is what I found out.

(I don't claim to be an expert - this is just what I've picked up, which may be way off. And I am paraphrasing a lot. Please correct if you know better.)

Here's what we know historically:
The COPO started out in 1969 as a specialty order. It came with the ZL1 427 engine intended for NHRA and IHRA competition. It produced about 550hp, though I don't know if that's using modern methods of measurment. There was also a 1969 Corvette ZL1.

The ZL1 was originally an option package for the COPO as previously mentioned. To get a ZL1, you had to order RPO L78 375hp Camaro with the COPO 9560 code. There were 2 Camaro production prototypes badged ZL1.

IROC - International Race of Champions upgrades.

The 1LE started as a brake upgrade RPO and eventually added a fuel tank redesign to avoid starving the fuel-injection pump, better gear ratio for more torque at higher gears to reverse fuel economy considerations, and wound up with shock and suspension upgrades in the 4th-gen Camaro 1LE. The fuel tank redesign became standard on all Camaros. GM discontinued the 1LE in '99, but could be obtained on Camaro SS and Firebird Firehawks via SLP in 2001. The 1LE package could also be added to the Z/28. As I recall, all of these 1LE features appear in the current 5th-gen Camaro 1LE package. Hell, the current 1LE looks like it includes most of the IROC upgrades.

The RS package has always been cosmetic featuring a deluxe interior and hidden headlights when originally introduced. (Which I think looks bitchin' and should have been included in the 5th-gen RS package.)

As near as I can tell, the Super Sport was a model that came with a big block engine, upgraded suspension and larger tires at around 295 horsepower, placing it below the Z/28 package in the hierarchy.

Now, the Z/28 was created for Trans/Am racing. It was an RPO code with the 302 small block rated at about 390hp, (again, I don't know what measurment meathods are used to get that number). It was considered a "special performance package". It lacked bottom-end power and could have the 1LE package added to it. The suspension was upgraded, it had rally wheels, and power front disc brakes. It also included "broad" racing stripes for improved torque at lower gears.



My Reaction:
So, the modern COPO release makes sense.

The Gen-5 ZL1 does not, as the ZL1 was an engine package upgrade to the COPO and never went into production originally. Perhaps the current ZL1 was what Chevy originally had in mind for production. I think I can accept that.

The Gen-5 Camaro Super Sport kinda makes sense as the base 8-cylinder. It's in the middle of the performance and power range.

The modern 1LE package makes sense as it can be added to, (in theory), any Camaro that needs it.

There is no reason to believe Chevy will release an IROC Z28 because IROC no longer exists for lack of sponsorship since 2007.

I've seen people mention that ZL1 + 1LE = Z/28. This doesn't make sense either, as a lot of what goes into the 1LE package reflects the existing ZL1, if not an inferior version. I don't think a 1LE plus ANYTHING will make a Z/28. The Z/28 must stand on its own and must take a back seat to the ZL1, and stay ahead of the stock LS3/SS.

I'm starting to think an LS7 is too much for the Z/28 because with that engine, it's basically a naturally aspirated ZL1. Frankly, I think the ZL1 should have been the Z/28 with a ZL1 engine. But that's not what happened.

Where does that leave the Z/28? If we accept the ZL1 as the spiritual successor to the original ZL1 that never got produced, then a Z/28 would be a gimped ZL1. I see it as having close to 500hp stock, with the 1LE available to it. It would also have to hit about the $45K price point. I don't see Chevy actually competing directly with each of Ford's Mustang models. They haven't really yet - I don't see them starting any time soon.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:31 AM   #338
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Thoughts?

Your wall of text will not be read sir.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:34 AM   #339
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Then don't read it.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:34 AM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy_Stranger View Post
Ever since my wife decided that I wanted a new Camaro, I have been trolling and trying to find out what is available and what I want. Honestly, even going through the Chevy car builder wasn't clear enough. Since then, I've gotten everything straightened out.

But I wondered why everyone was waiting around specifically for a Z/28. To me, everything seemed to be covered. So, I did a little poking around on the Internet and this is what I found out.

(I don't claim to be an expert - this is just what I've picked up, which may be way off. And I am paraphrasing a lot. Please correct if you know better.)

Here's what we know historically:
The COPO started out in 1969 as a specialty order. It came with the ZL1 427 engine intended for NHRA and IHRA competition. It produced about 550hporiginally rated from factory with 390 HP, but later deduced to have approximately over 500 HP, though I don't know if that's using modern methods of measurment. There was also a 1969 Corvette ZL1.

The ZL1 was originally an option package for the COPO as previously mentioned. To get a ZL1, you had to order RPO L78 375hp Camaro with the COPO 9560 code. There were 2 Camaro production prototypes badged ZL1.

IROC - International Race of Champions upgrades.

The 1LE started as a brake upgrade RPO and eventually added a fuel tank redesign to avoid starving the fuel-injection pump, better gear ratio for more torque at higher gears to reverse fuel economy considerations, and wound up with shock and suspension upgrades in the 4th-gen Camaro 1LE. The fuel tank redesign became standard on all Camaros. GM discontinued the 1LE in '99, but could be obtained on Camaro SS and Firebird Firehawks via SLP in 2001. The 1LE package could also be added to the Z/28. As I recall, all of these 1LE features appear in the current 5th-gen Camaro 1LE package. Hell, the current 1LE looks like it includes most of the IROC upgrades.

The RS package has always been cosmetic featuring a deluxe interior and hidden headlights when originally introduced. (Which I think looks bitchin' and should have been included in the 5th-gen RS package.)

As near as I can tell, the Super Sport was a model that came with a big block engine, upgraded suspension and larger tires at around 295 horsepower, placing it below the Z/28 package in the hierarchy.

Now, the Z/28 was created for Trans/Am racing. It was an RPO code with the 302 small block rated at about 390hp, (again, I don't know what measurment meathods are used to get that number). It was considered a "special performance package". It lacked bottom-end power and could have the 1LE package added to it. The suspension was upgraded, it had rally wheels, and power front disc brakes. It also included "broad" racing stripes for improved torque at lower gears.



My Reaction:
So, the modern COPO release makes sense.

The Gen-5 ZL1 does not, as the ZL1 was an engine package upgrade to the COPO and never went into production originally. Perhaps the current ZL1 was what Chevy originally had in mind for production. I think I can accept that.

The Gen-5 Camaro Super Sport kinda makes sense as the base 8-cylinder. It's in the middle of the performance and power range.

The modern 1LE package makes sense as it can be added to, (in theory), any Camaro that needs it.

There is no reason to believe Chevy will release an IROC Z28 because IROC no longer exists for lack of sponsorship since 2007.

I've seen people mention that ZL1 + 1LE = Z/28.I have never seen anyone mention that a ZL1+1LE= Z/28, but the majority of people would agree that a LS7 engine + SS/1LE= Z/28 This doesn't make sense either, as a lot of what goes into the 1LE package reflects the existing ZL1, if not an inferior version. I don't think a 1LE plus ANYTHING will make a Z/28. The Z/28 must stand on its own and must take a back seat to the ZL1, and stay ahead of the stock LS3/SS.

I'm starting to think an LS7 is too much for the Z/28 because with that engine, it's basically a naturally aspirated ZL1. Frankly, I think the ZL1 should have been the Z/28 with a ZL1 engine. But that's not what happened.

Where does that leave the Z/28? If we accept the ZL1 as the spiritual successor to the original ZL1 that never got produced, then a Z/28 would be a gimped ZL1. I see it as having close to 500hp stock, with the 1LE available to it. It would also have to hit about the $45K price point. I don't see Chevy actually competing directly with each of Ford's Mustang models. They haven't really yet - I don't see them starting any time soon.

Thoughts?


Oh! boy Did you know that there is a specific forum here on C5 that has been discussing this same subject since like....forever? here's the link in cased you missed it:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=136

if you want the premise of what the Z/28 should be that's favored by the 6OG'S (Six Old Guys - they know what they are talking about, they lived it) then check out this link, grab a case of beer(or two) if you're going to read it from start to finish:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149090

Enjoy!


By the way good job on the research you have done, but there are some "facts" that you have that some will feel are inaccurate, SOOOO....hope you got you're flame suit on.
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