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Camaro V6 LLT Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 12-22-2012, 11:11 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro View Post
I have the weight of the brakes for the SS on the list. However I do not know the weight for the V6 brakes :(

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Hopefully someone can chime in with the weights for the v6
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:59 PM   #27
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Saw this in the wheels and tires section and thought it was very interesting. It basically confirms what we all knew about how wheel/tire weights affect power to the ground. Its cool that the test was on an SS, and likely has a similar, or maybe even bigger affect for our V6:

*********************************************

Article with dyno graph came from http://teamspeed.com/forums/aventado...orsepower.html

Test:
Davenport Motorsports (Custom Performance Parts and Service : Davenport Motorsports) of Canada, wanted to see the dyno effects of running different wheels on cars. They took a factory 2012 Camaro SS and ran 3 dyno runs. They ran the first run with a set of aftermarket wheels, the 2nd run with a set of stock factory wheels and the 3rd run with a set of HRE P45S wheels, all in 20” sizes.

These results highlight the effects of rotational inertia on drive-train losses (the hp lost between the engine crank and the ground). Wheels and tires contribute to drive-train losses as energy is used to spin up the wheels (and decelerate the wheels under braking). From the dyno chart you can see the effect of replacing factory wheels with lighter HRE wheels and see the negative effects of installing heavier aftermarket wheels.

Results:
1. (Blue curve) Factory wheels: 20”x9.0” with Pirelli 275/40-20 tires weighing 68 lbs combined per rear wheel. – Max hp: 371 hp, Max Torque: 375 ftlbs - (Baseline)
2. (Red curve) Aftermarket wheels: 20”x9.0” with Pirelli 275/40-20 tires weighing 72 lbs combined per rear wheel – Max hp: 369 hp, Max Torque: 373 ftlbs - (A [-] loss of 2 hp and 2 ftlbs)
3. (Green curve) HRE wheels: 20”x11.0” with Nitto 315/35-20 tires weighing 60 lbs combined per rear wheel – Max hp: 380hp, Max Torque: 384 ftlbs - (A [+] gain of 8 hp and 9 ftlbs and that is running a 2” wider wheel/tire combo)

Conclusion:
The engine obviously still cranks out the same amount of hp and torque, the lighter HREs simply waste less of it before it gets to the ground. Also interesting to note is that the gains are not just peak gains, but gains across the entire rev range. If they had done a braking test, we would have seen similar results as the rotational inertia effects also have a significant effect on how much energy is used to stop the wheel/tire combo vs. stopping the car. We talk about these effects all the time and focus on designing lightweight wheels with low rotational inertia, but it isn’t every day that you get to see real hard data showing the true effects.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:39 PM   #28
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Yeah this is precisely the reason I'm drooling over the Forgestar F14 and TSW Nurburgrings in 18"!
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:22 PM   #29
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my Motegi Racing wheels are 18x8, so half inch widder than stock heritage wheels and wheigh 22 lbs. so just for the wheels i saved 43.6 lbs. and my Flowmaster 40 series weight is 10 lbs a piece. so total saving of 28 lbs from the factory saddle bags back there lol

both weights were from Amazon. They give product weight for both items.

anyone know what the stock intake wheighs and if aftermarket ones are any less?
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:48 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadG View Post
I've been looking into the TSW Nurburgrings and the Forgestar F14s to replace my steel heritage wheels, but if you're doing autocross I would imagine your best bet is to do with wheels smaller than 20".

Even Pedders went with 19's on their build:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90270

Anyone have solid numbers on how much the 18" Steel Heritage Wheels on the LS weigh? 18" TSW's and Forgestars are about 18.5 lbs . . . which is crazy light.
Heritage Wheels are a hair over 30Lbs, I purchased 18" Aluminum Rims from Pep Boys that weight just under 20Lbs.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:33 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '11CamaroLS View Post
my Motegi Racing wheels are 18x8, so half inch widder than stock heritage wheels and wheigh 22 lbs. so just for the wheels i saved 43.6 lbs. and my Flowmaster 40 series weight is 10 lbs a piece. so total saving of 28 lbs from the factory saddle bags back there lol

both weights were from Amazon. They give product weight for both items.

anyone know what the stock intake wheighs and if aftermarket ones are any less?
Not sure, I was wondering this too. I would think the stock intake would be kinda heavy since it is big and bulky, but you never know.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:10 PM   #32
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Heritage Wheels are a hair over 30Lbs, I purchased 18" Aluminum Rims from Pep Boys that weight just under 20Lbs.
Can you feel the difference after going to the lighter wheels?
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:19 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro View Post

RS OEM Wheel Weight (per wheel)
Front - 30.3 lbs
Rear - 32 lbs


RS OEM Tire Weight (per tire)
Front - 32 lbs
Rear - 36 lbs
Are you sure that's right? How can the tires weigh more than the wheels?
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:34 AM   #34
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Quote:
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Can you feel the difference after going to the lighter wheels?

Yes, I can feel the differance after going from my stock 19's to my Nurburgrung 20's. This was a 5 lb. drop in each corner and it feels lighter on acceleration and handling is better. Even a bigger savings if going from a stock 20" or dropping to 18"Nurburgring's.



Quote:
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Are you sure that's right? How can the tires weigh more than the wheels?
Yes, those are correct weights. The WIKI lists the wheel and tires weights for us.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:23 AM   #35
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Yes, I can feel the differance after going from my stock 19's to my Nurburgrung 20's. This was a 5 lb. drop in each corner and it feels lighter on acceleration and handling is better. Even a bigger savings if going from a stock 20" or dropping to 18"Nurburgring's.





Yes, those are correct weights. The WIKI lists the wheel and tires weights for us.
I went from stock 20s to the Nurburgs and lost about 43lbs and holy crap did I notice a diff.


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Old 12-26-2012, 02:03 PM   #36
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Soo what is the weight of 4 rs wheels and tires inflated to 35psi???
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:17 PM   #37
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Soo what is the weight of 4 rs wheels and tires inflated to 35psi???

260.6 lbs. for the SS or RS wheels. All the same.

Air PSI won't make a differnace.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtcat600man View Post
Yes, I can feel the differance after going from my stock 19's to my Nurburgrung 20's. This was a 5 lb. drop in each corner and it feels lighter on acceleration and handling is better. Even a bigger savings if going from a stock 20" or dropping to 18"Nurburgring's.





Yes, those are correct weights. The WIKI lists the wheel and tires weights for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjkjr27 View Post
I went from stock 20s to the Nurburgs and lost about 43lbs and holy crap did I notice a diff.


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That's what I wanted to hear! Really hoping to be able to pull of the upgrade soon, those heavy steelies are killing me.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:47 PM   #39
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260.6 lbs. for the SS or RS wheels. All the same.

Air PSI won't make a differnace.
Technically, PSI would make a very small difference.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:16 PM   #40
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Still trying to figure out the weight for the MRT V1s. Scrming didn't know and Apex Chase told me their shipping weight that
Is listed in their system but its more than MRT V2 which I know is not the case...

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Old 12-27-2012, 05:34 PM   #41
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Quote:
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Can you feel the difference after going to the lighter wheels?

That's hard to tell, even if it's 10 hp, 10 hp out of 300+ would be hard to feel the diff.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:10 PM   #42
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That's hard to tell, even if it's 10 hp, 10 hp out of 300+ would be hard to feel the diff.
I was just thinking back of the envelope calculations where 1 pound of unsprung rotational mass = 10 pounds weight reduction. (If someone has a better number please chime in)

The 18" TSW and Forgestar F14's are about 18.5 pounds a piece, which is a 14.4 lb weight savings per wheel. So a total of 57.6 pounds of unsprung rotational mass (assuming you go with the same tires) would be worth ~570 lbs of weight loss? That seems unreal, but if that number is correct you'd definitely feel it I would think.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:27 AM   #43
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I was just thinking back of the envelope calculations where 1 pound of unsprung rotational mass = 10 pounds weight reduction. (If someone has a better number please chime in)

The 18" TSW and Forgestar F14's are about 18.5 pounds a piece, which is a 14.4 lb weight savings per wheel. So a total of 57.6 pounds of unsprung rotational mass (assuming you go with the same tires) would be worth ~570 lbs of weight loss? That seems unreal, but if that number is correct you'd definitely feel it I would think.
I have heard that rotational mass is somewhere bewteen 4 and 10 lbs stationary mass. This would put that number for your weight drop on the wheels between 230 to 580 lbs. Probably much closer to the lower end. For sure something you will notice when accelerating.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:57 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadG View Post
I was just thinking back of the envelope calculations where 1 pound of unsprung rotational mass = 10 pounds weight reduction. (If someone has a better number please chime in)

The 18" TSW and Forgestar F14's are about 18.5 pounds a piece, which is a 14.4 lb weight savings per wheel. So a total of 57.6 pounds of unsprung rotational mass (assuming you go with the same tires) would be worth ~570 lbs of weight loss? That seems unreal, but if that number is correct you'd definitely feel it I would think.
I just read recently, that the 1lb of rotating mass equalling 10lbs of sprung mass is not the norm. Possible yes, but not the norm. I can't remember the explaination given unfortunently.

In our case, its probably on the low end, and so losing 57lbs of unsprung weight is probably more like 2 - 4 times that amount in sprung weight, so 100 - 200 lbs I'd guess.

Even so, that is a FANTASTIC weight loss to unsprung weight. I'd be extremely happy.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:34 PM   #45
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That's what I wanted to hear! Really hoping to be able to pull of the upgrade soon, those heavy steelies are killing me.
dropping the steelies is one of my favorite mods lol, looks so much better and the 44 lbs i dropped made a big difference in driving feel. car feels more nimble and spins the tires easier now.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:21 PM   #46
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dropping the steelies is one of my favorite mods lol, looks so much better and the 44 lbs i dropped made a big difference in driving feel. car feels more nimble and spins the tires easier now.
Amen! Also KMP post on weight is a great post to show how weight affects on dyno. Also overall tire diameter as stated in poor man gear change will add as well. This may have been already stated but I got behind on this thread and didn't read all.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:04 AM   #47
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rs headlights weigh 10lbs each
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:20 PM   #48
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weighed and took out the washer fluid resivor today it weighed 12lbs filled!
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:27 PM   #49
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I just read recently, that the 1lb of rotating mass equalling 10lbs of sprung mass is not the norm. Possible yes, but not the norm. I can't remember the explaination given unfortunently.

In our case, its probably on the low end, and so losing 57lbs of unsprung weight is probably more like 2 - 4 times that amount in sprung weight, so 100 - 200 lbs I'd guess.

Even so, that is a FANTASTIC weight loss to unsprung weight. I'd be extremely happy.

To be able to calculate the equivalent chassis weight of a specific value of Rotational Mass, you will need to compute the following:
  1. The car's weight
  2. The Time it takes to reach a certain speed ( 0-60mph)
Camaro V6 2LT (3751 lbs) (0-60mph: 6s)
40 lbs of (Wheel/Tire saving) = 255 lbs of chassis weight

Camaro V8 2SS (3935 lbs) (0-60mph: 4.7s)
40 lbs of (Wheel/Tire saving) = 233 lbs of chassis weight

Hope this helps
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:02 PM   #50
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Updated.
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