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Old 01-01-2013, 11:09 PM   #276
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This thread makes me realize why you can't talk about politics or religion on this forum…

Politics and religon? Baaawww!
The internet was invented to exchange porn and argue about cars. And that's it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:12 PM   #277
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:41 AM   #278
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So the Ford police are back to instruct us on how to appreciate cars again? Nice.

On topic: Guess I'm going to have to pick up one of those 1LE's (or hopefully, an LS7-powered Z28).
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:51 AM   #279
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Were are you getting these half courses lost to GT500? I know of two out of like 10 comparisons where the Shelby beat the zl1 laptime, and both of those courses it won on the last straightaway due to the power. It won by a few hundreds of a second. However, after 2-3 laps even on some of those tracks the GT500 lost laptime comparisons

The ZL1 is a Shelby killer at the road courses, not even a comparison. Open track day sessions last more than 2 laps you know.

VIR - 3 seconds for ZL1
Monticello with Chris Harris - 2 seconds for ZL1
Motor Trend Laguna Seca - 0.49 for Shelby GT500, lost to ZL1 after 3rd lap
Car and Driver Grattan - Same laptime, GT500 picked up on straightaway,
Road and Track Grattan - 0.5 seconds for ZL1
Insideline Streets of Willow - 0.6 sec GT500 Shelby, again straightaway pick up.
Automobile Mag Gingerman Raceway - 0.7 sec for ZL1, track has three straightaways
Edmunds NOT TRACK but road - ZL1 was smoking GT500 on backroads
AND the Nurnburgring - ZL1 clocked, GT500 showed up and went back home.

If you are a road racer, the ZL1 is lightyears ahead of the GT500. Solid rear, sliding rear calipers, skinny rear tires (my fronts are like the GT500 rears), solid front rotors, and a 57% front weight distribution make the Shelby a not so friendly track car.

Finally, keep in mind the SS 1LE almost showed its behind to the shelby at VIR.

The Shelby is still a very respectable car, the laptimes show it vs. the world, but Ford seriously has to catch up in many areas to keep up with the Camaro. Power is not a problem for American cars and we know GM has motors capable of 640 hp that are based on what the camaro is using. Does Ford have chassis tuning on any car that is superior to the GM vehicles? Hmmmmmmmm...
Mgizzle just jizzed on this thread with "factual facts". Yes I just said that....cased closed
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:58 AM   #280
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Hmmm...LS7 Z28. Sounds like a performer to me. High power, naturally aspirated, high revving, corner carving, straight line bad assness.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:45 AM   #281
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Hmmm...LS7 Z28. Sounds like a performer to me. High power, naturally aspirated, high revving, corner carving, straight line bad assness.
A little off-topic on my part, but out of curiosity, does being naturally aspirated and high-revving actually provide a performance advantage compared to forced induction counterparts of equivalent specs or is it just the sound and feel of the engine that adds to the thrill?
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:20 AM   #282
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Hmmm...LS7 Z28. Sounds like a performer to me. High power, naturally aspirated, high revving, corner carving, straight line bad assness.


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A little off-topic on my part, but out of curiosity, does being naturally aspirated and high-revving actually provide a performance advantage compared to forced induction counterparts of equivalent specs or is it just the sound and feel of the engine that adds to the thrill?
The biggest reason for N/A is you don't end up with a heat soaked super charger pulling timing and killing power.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:24 AM   #283
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Stock 2011 GT500 ran at VIR with a sub 3 minute time. 2:58........Why is that.....Should not be possible right???

As I stated in the last post. Road course times have to many variables even with the same driver. When 2 cars are so close the outcome can be different everytime. The ZL1 and GT500 are both close on road courses. The ZL1 does it in handling and the GT500 does it in brute force HP. The ZL1 will win some and the GT500 will win some. That cant be disputed.....period.....
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:18 AM   #284
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Stock 2011 GT500 ran at VIR with a sub 3 second time. 2:58........Why is that.....Should not be possible right???

(minute)
As I stated in the last post. Road course times have to many variables even with the same driver. When 2 cars are so close the outcome can be different everytime. The ZL1 and GT500 are both close on road courses. The ZL1 does it in handling and the GT500 does it in brute force HP. The ZL1 will win some and the GT500 will win some. That cant be disputed.....period.....
So did a stock 1LE @ 3870lbs with 426hp for 37K
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:26 AM   #285
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To be fair though, Torque, while pushing the car as hard as they could, were more doing it for R&D than competition, it just happened that the GT500 was out there running at the same time.

Im pretty sure they both scheduled to be at the track the same day so they could see what these 2 cars would do. Just a friendly outing.


On a side note. I may have to talk my friend into picking up a 1LE.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:52 AM   #286
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In an after noon the ZL1 can make as much power as the GT 500. (pulley and air box). Let me know when you get your new rear end and everything you need to make your Ford compare to the Chevy.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:55 AM   #287
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In an after noon the ZL1 can make as much power as the GT 500. (pulley and air box). Let me know when you get your new rear end and everything you need to make your Ford compare to the Chevy.
Not arguing with you by any means, but anything you can do to a ZL1 you can do to a GT500 and more (engine wise) once you mod it all goes out the window.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:11 AM   #288
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Stock 2011 GT500 ran at VIR with a sub 3 second time. 2:58........Why is that.....Should not be possible right???
The '11 GT500 already had ample power to put down a sub-3 minute (not second) lap with that chassis. Adding 100+ HP didn't help it. Maybe that should have been their clue that this platform has peaked and it's time to engineer a real chassis for FoMoCo's ONLY performance car.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:29 AM   #289
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The '11 GT500 already had ample power to put down a sub-3 minute (not second) lap with that chassis. Adding 100+ HP didn't help it. Maybe that should have been their clue that this platform has peaked and it's time to engineer a real chassis for FoMoCo's ONLY performance car.
Already edited my post to minute not second. A sub 3 second lap is BLAZING!!!!

But my point is that road course times will vary ALOT.....Especially with cars as close as the ZL1 and GT500 are. I have always said that I give the edge to the ZL1 but the GT500 is right there with it because of the power. A 2:58 minute time on the old 2011 GT500 just proves my point.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:43 AM   #290
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Where did a GT500 without a cage, race seats and a factory driver put down a time oc 2:58?!?! Also, did u compare that to GMs ZL1 lap at VRI? Again, the shift in laptimes is in the zl1 advantage.

By the way, that FORD engine in my mind is not that great. Compare size and weight to GM motor and u will see why. Good luck making a smaller mustang fit that motor and move weight to the rear.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:44 AM   #291
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Already edited my post to minute not second. A sub 3 second lap is BLAZING!!!!

But my point is that road course times will vary ALOT.....Especially with cars as close as the ZL1 and GT500 are. I have always said that I give the edge to the ZL1 but the GT500 is right there with it because of the power. A 2:58 minute time on the old 2011 GT500 just proves my point.
Or it could prove that power isn't everything, and sometimes less is more ...
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:49 AM   #292
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Where did a GT500 without a cage, race seats and a factory driver put down a time oc 2:58?!?! Also, did u compare that to GMs ZL1 lap at VRI? Again, the shift in laptimes is in the zl1 advantage.

By the way, that FORD engine in my mind is not that great. Compare size and weight to GM motor and u will see why. Good luck making a smaller mustang fit that motor and move weight to the rear.
1. http://youtu.be/aR7PIZhFUdc

2. The 5.8L is not going in the next gen Mustang, many have stated its being phased out all together and seeing as its a 10+ year old engine design, rightfully so.

Just saying...

Also I don't think the ZL1 is a POS or the Camaro as a Whole (Considering I Own a 2010 SS). I had my reasons for getting a GT500 instead of a ZL1 and they are my business and mine alone but I can tell you I certainly didn't buy a nearly 2 ton car for its handling ability...
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #293
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1. http://youtu.be/aR7PIZhFUdc

2. The 5.8L is not going in the next gen Mustang, many have stated its being phased out all together and seeing as its a 10+ year old engine design, rightfully so.

Just saying...

Also I don't think the ZL1 is a POS or the Camaro as a Whole (Considering I Own a 2010 SS). I had my reasons for getting a GT500 instead of a ZL1 and they are my business and mine alone but I can tell you I certainly didn't buy a nearly 2 ton car for its handling ability...
This wasn't an everyday driver, this was an SVT engineer. Camaro engineer did 2:52 at VIR. As for the lighting lap, it was same day same driver - so the 2011 time is moot
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:02 AM   #294
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This wasn't an everyday driver, this was an SVT engineer. Camaro engineer did 2:52 at VIR. As for the lighting lap, it was same day same driver - so the 2011 time is moot
I miss read that part lol
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:06 AM   #295
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This wasn't an everyday driver, this was an SVT engineer. Camaro engineer did 2:52 at VIR. As for the lighting lap, it was same day same driver - so the 2011 time is moot
Yep, the 1le did a 2:58 with the gm engineer driving.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:15 AM   #296
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Not arguing with you by any means, but anything you can do to a ZL1 you can do to a GT500 and more (engine wise) once you mod it all goes out the window.
In my opinion when comparing modded cars you have to use total $$$$$ spent as a base.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:11 PM   #297
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What's really impressive is how the Camaro's (even the 1LE) faired against the Jag and the LFA. Considering the cost of those cars, I wouldn't want to be the guy who just bought one and then read these results. Think about it, a car you could drive everyday, that will beat a XKR-S, 911-S, and a M6, for less than $60K. I need a raise so I can get one!
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:23 PM   #298
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What's really impressive is how the Camaro's (even the 1LE) faired against the Jag and the LFA. Considering the cost of those cars, I wouldn't want to be the guy who just bought one and then read these results. Think about it, a car you could drive everyday, that will beat a XKR-S, 911-S, and a M6, for less than $60K. I need a raise so I can get one!
Agreed, if I was going to buy a Camaro that was built for the track it would be the 1LE. If they put an LS7 in it you can pretty much bet they will get times that beat or at least keep up to the ZL1. My guess is beat though…..
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:36 PM   #299
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http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...gt_track_pack/

This was posted elsewhere, but I thought I would add fuel to the fire.
What surprised me the most was how close the two were in acceleration.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:37 PM   #300
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Agreed, if I was going to buy a Camaro that was built for the track it would be the 1LE. If they put an LS7 in it you can pretty much bet they will get times that beat or at least keep up to the ZL1. My guess is beat though…..
If that's the case there are going to be some PO'd ZL1 owners. It may be acceptable if the car cost more than a ZL1 but that would make it a 70K Camaro!
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