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Old 01-02-2013, 12:44 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja View Post
Agreed, if I was going to buy a Camaro that was built for the track it would be the 1LE. If they put an LS7 in it you can pretty much bet they will get times that beat or at least keep up to the ZL1. My guess is beat though…..
Now that I think about it even more that's like a Z06 outpacing a ZR1. I don't think that would be a smart business decision by Chevrolet. ZL1 sales would plummet unless an LS7 equipped SS had more to it than just the engine and it would have to cost more than a ZL1.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:00 PM   #302
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Now that I think about it even more that's like a Z06 outpacing a ZR1. I don't think that would be a smart business decision by Chevrolet. ZL1 sales would plummet unless an LS7 equipped SS had more to it than just the engine and it would have to cost more than a ZL1.
I'm willing to bet that on the right track a Z06 could/would out pace a ZR1. After all it has a heat soaking supercharger. And they're not too far from each other in terms of performance.

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Old 01-02-2013, 02:18 PM   #303
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I'm willing to bet that on the right track a Z06 could/would out pace a ZR1. After all it has a heat soaking supercharger. And they're not too far from each other in terms of performance.
only with the carbon or Z07 would that be remotely possible.

the Zr1 is more car than the stock base Z06 by leaps and bounds. The Z07 on paper seems to really work but i have not been in one or driven one.


I would love to see what a 1le with a LS7 would do. I still think the ZL1 is is a better looking car. if they build it cheap it will piss some people off for sure though. if it is 55k as well though I could care less.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:32 PM   #304
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Not arguing with you by any means, but anything you can do to a ZL1 you can do to a GT500 and more (engine wise) once you mod it all goes out the window.
Correct, but the GT500 comparably equipped is about $5k more than the ZL1. All you need is $2k (H/X, pulley, CAI) and you would have more power than the GT500 and would still have cost $3k less than the GT500. A ZL1 with 680hp would annilhate the GT500 on a road course (already does with 580hp as indicated by the 3 second stomp at VIR), still be more comfortable to drive, still have an awesome PTM system and one of the most advanced suspension systems out there, and would likely outrun the GT500 in the 1/4, all while costing $3k less.

I love the GT500 and think its pretty damn impressive what they have done with that motor and a live axle. However, the cost ($$) have to be considered when comparing vehicles. My point, when comparing the ZL1 and GT500, for the money, the ZL1 is hands down the better purchase as far as performance. Not sure how that can be argued, but I guess there are those narrow minded ones that just cannot rationally think about it?
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:34 PM   #305
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The biggest reason for N/A is you don't end up with a heat soaked super charger pulling timing and killing power.
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A little off-topic on my part, but out of curiosity, does being naturally aspirated and high-revving actually provide a performance advantage compared to forced induction counterparts of equivalent specs or is it just the sound and feel of the engine that adds to the thrill?
Crim got it spot on ^, plus, the added power up to the rev limiter. But the biggest reason is, I just prefer natural things. It's like implants, they look nice but I just love the natural feeling of it.

Ooops...got carried away for a bit.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:44 PM   #306
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http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...gt_track_pack/

This was posted elsewhere, but I thought I would add fuel to the fire.
What surprised me the most was how close the two were in acceleration.
What's interesting also, in the photos they showed comparisons of the interior, exterior and engine. But they only showed Randy giving a thumbs up while sitting the Camaro. Where's the reaction in the Mustang?
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:34 PM   #307
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What's interesting also, in the photos they showed comparisons of the interior, exterior and engine. But they only showed Randy giving a thumbs up while sitting the Camaro. Where's the reaction in the Mustang?
Randy....the same guy that said he likes to drive the Mustang more because it HAS BETTER BALANCE......that guy????
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #308
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Randy....the same guy that said he likes to drive the Mustang more because it HAS BETTER BALANCE......that guy????
Is "Balance" subjective?

2013 GT500 Coupe Weight Distribution 57/43
2012 Camaro ZL1 Coupe Weight Distribution 51/49
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:25 PM   #309
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Is "Balance" subjective?

2013 GT500 Coupe Weight Distribution 57/43
2012 Camaro ZL1 Coupe Weight Distribution 51/49
Randy Pobst was the one that said it. Weight balance and oversteer understeer balance are different.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:27 PM   #310
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I miss read that part lol
That was my point in my comment. Again, the zl1 6 seconds over the shelby. really cool that u have a camaro and a shelby and I see how some people would prefer the shelby over the zl1 because it is signficantly faster in a straight line.

However, keep in mind that u have to purchase track upgrades to make it track capable for significantly more money..... And it still gets destroyed at the track.

As for the ford guys claiming these are muscle cars and the quarter is all that counts..... Last time I checked the name Shelby was tied to road racing.

As far as two ton track car.... Last time I checked the Z was about 200 lbs heavier with a car that has proper.suspension in the rear and proper size brakes with a chassis capable of full five star ratings in crash, while still being better on the track by a lot. Put two hundred lbs sand packs in the shelby trunk and it migh do better at the track.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:30 PM   #311
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That was my point in my comment. Again, the zl1 6 seconds over the shelby. really cool that u have a camaro and a shelby and I see how some people would prefer the shelby over the zl1 because it is signficantly faster in a straight line.

However, keep in mind that u have to purchase track upgrades to make it track capable for significantly more money..... And it still gets destroyed at the track.

As for the ford guys claiming these are muscle cars and the quarter is all that counts..... Last time I checked the name Shelby was tied to road racing.

As far as two ton track car.... Last time I checked the Z was about 200 lbs heavier with a car that has proper.suspension in the rear and proper size brakes with a chassis capable of full five star ratings in crash, while still being better on the track by a lot. Put two hundred lbs sand packs in the shelby trunk and it migh do better at the track.
The thing I think you fail to understand that is pretty clear is that the ZL1's purpose is corning. The Shelby's is Pure Push Back Acceleration. They both handle excellent but the ZL1 happens to have the advantage, IRS, that the GT500 doesn't.

I personally don't know anyone who would say something as stupid as "well lets go down to a road course and I'll leave you in the dust." As much as I love the ZL1 and the GT500, both sides are using some seriously ricer arguments. But then again this is the internet, and the following picture sums it up.

Also it's not in anyway shape or form impressive that the ZL1 and 1LE can beat the solid rear axle Mustang when it comes to corning. The Mustang is an almost 10 year old car. I should freaking hope the Camaro can beat the Mustang around corners considering it's a newer design. I'm always amazed that people seem to forget this minor detail…



If anyone is actually offended by above picture, please grow some skin. It is a joke.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:22 PM   #312
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I believe a 1LE/LS7 (Z28) would best a ZL1 around VIR (not by much). It will NOT beat it in a straight line, but it would be close.

The ZL1 is a "fully" equipped GT car that is obviously extremely capable at most anything. Think Porsche or AMG.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:28 PM   #313
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Randy....the same guy that said he likes to drive the Mustang more because it HAS BETTER BALANCE......that guy????
Randy as much as I like him has always been a Mustang and Porsche guy.


That track information does not speak to the Mustang being balanced at all. In fact it looks extremely sloppy. BTW, It has a higher center of gravity. A poorer weight distribution. A shorter wheelbase. A narrower track. A much less rigid chassis. An out of date and just plain wrong designed suspension for track. Weaker brakes. Cast wheels? Narrow tires...at this point I'm bored...

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Old 01-02-2013, 08:47 PM   #314
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The thing I think you fail to understand that is pretty clear is that the ZL1's purpose is corning. The Shelby's is Pure Push Back Acceleration. They both handle excellent but the ZL1 happens to have the advantage, IRS, that the GT500 doesn't.

I personally don't know anyone who would say something as stupid as "well lets go down to a road course and I'll leave you in the dust." As much as I love the ZL1 and the GT500, both sides are using some seriously ricer arguments. But then again this is the internet, and the following picture sums it up.

Also it's not in anyway shape or form impressive that the ZL1 and 1LE can beat the solid rear axle Mustang when it comes to corning. The Mustang is an almost 10 year old car. I should freaking hope the Camaro can beat the Mustang around corners considering it's a newer design. I'm always amazed that people seem to forget this minor detail…



If anyone is actually offended by above picture, please grow some skin. It is a joke.
you have alot of posts in this thread to be throwing that flag up ha ha.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:11 PM   #315
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Also it's not in anyway shape or form impressive that the ZL1 and 1LE can beat the solid rear axle Mustang when it comes to corning.
That's not what many were preaching a while back.

I 110% disagree. The 1LE and ZL1 lap times in this lightning lap are exactly the definition of impressive...REGARDLESS of which vehicle one might choose to compare it against.

IMO...especially the 1LE's time.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:20 PM   #316
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That track information does not speak to the Mustang being balanced at all. In fact it looks extremely sloppy. BTW, It has a higher center of gravity. A poorer weight distribution. A shorter wheelbase. A narrower track. A much less rigid chassis. An out of date and just plain wrong designed suspension for track. Weaker brakes. Cast wheels? Narrow tires...at this point I'm bored...

All that and it still beat the ZL1 on some tracks..........
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:27 PM   #317
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All that and it still beat the ZL1 on some tracks..........
You're a hopeless case! But I appreciate your love for your car.
I do think the GT500 is a great 1/4 mile car, but as a track car no! Good news the new Mustang is coming!
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:30 PM   #318
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You're a hopeless case! But I appreciate your love for your car.
I do think the GT500 is a great 1/4 mile car, but as a track car no! Good news the new Mustang is coming!
Im just messing around.....LOL.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:32 PM   #319
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I forsee many sra fans crying when the new mustangs debuts.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:35 PM   #320
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I forsee many sra fans crying.
Nahhhh, got my 2012 GT500 for the 1/4 mile stuff. Im not getting any new Mustang anyway and the GT500 is not going anywhere. Might be getting something else to go next to it though. We will see what the other "american brand" will have in 2015.

If they actually make the IRS strong enough to handle some decent power there might not be any crying. I loved the IRS in the 392 Challenger I had but it could not handle power worth a damn!! Then there is that whole 03-04 Cobra thing.....SNAP!!! There goes another axle....
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #321
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you have alot of posts in this thread to be throwing that flag up ha ha.
I have a total of not more than 10 posts in this thread and most of them aren't even arguing back and forth. Most are just stating my opinion. Maybe 4 of my posts actually have some substance to them.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:54 PM   #322
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That's not what many were preaching a while back.

I 110% disagree. The 1LE and ZL1 lap times in this lightning lap are exactly the definition of impressive...REGARDLESS of which vehicle one might choose to compare it against.

IMO...especially the 1LE's time.
Once again, if you look at the level of technology in the ZL1 and compare it to those other cars then it kinda kills the whole amazing was of what the car has done. Kinda like the GT-R, so much technology it's almost limp and emotionless from a drivers perspective.

I'm not calling the ZL1 limp and emotionless but it certainly has more than enough technology serving to make it an easier car to drive fast around a track than some of the other cars in the comparison. Coupled with its IRS it should be expected to out handle the Solid Rear Mustang and with all the Chest Beating Al O. did about its handling its good to see it stood up.

As for the 1LE, it was part if the car that was developed into the ZL1, so enough said. It might be a bit of a parts bin car but none the less with the parts it uses should be expected to go as fast as it does.

Give a driver a car that won't scare the f*** out of them and take a master to control, they will probably have an easier time with it. That's what the Camaro is accessible, it gives people the means to go fast without necessarily being scared out of their wits.

Yet people still act like its a surprise...
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:01 PM   #323
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Once again, if you look at the level of technology in the ZL1 and compare it to those other cars then it kinda kills the whole amazing was of what the car has done. Kinda like the GT-R, so much technology it's almost limp and emotionless from a drivers perspective.

I'm not calling the ZL1 limp and emotionless but it certainly has more than enough technology serving to make it an easier car to drive fast around a track than some of the other cars in the comparison. Coupled with its IRS it should be expected to out handle the Solid Rear Mustang and with all the Chest Beating Al O. did about its handling its good to see it stood up.

As for the 1LE, it was part if the car that was developed into the ZL1, so enough said. It might be a bit of a parts bin car but none the less with the parts it uses should be expected to go as fast as it does.

Give a driver a car that won't scare the f*** out of them and take a master to control, they will probably have an easier time with it. That's what the Camaro is accessible, it gives people the means to go fast without necessarily being scared out of their wits.

Yet people still act like its a surprise...
The 458 has the same magnetic ride as the ZL1.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:10 PM   #324
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The thing I think you fail to understand that is pretty clear is that the ZL1's purpose is corning. The Shelby's is Pure Push Back Acceleration. They both handle excellent but the ZL1 happens to have the advantage, IRS, that the GT500 doesn't.

I personally don't know anyone who would say something as stupid as "well lets go down to a road course and I'll leave you in the dust." As much as I love the ZL1 and the GT500, both sides are using some seriously ricer arguments. But then again this is the internet, and the following picture sums it up.

Also it's not in anyway shape or form impressive that the ZL1 and 1LE can beat the solid rear axle Mustang when it comes to corning. The Mustang is an almost 10 year old car. I should freaking hope the Camaro can beat the Mustang around corners considering it's a newer design. I'm always amazed that people seem to forget this minor detail…
Actually it always seems to amaze me that people forget or discount the fact the Gt500 is $5k more, 250lbs lighter, with 80hp more and still can't beat the ZL1. Like you said, it's a 10 year old design, yet they are still charging $63k plus for inferior performance.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:27 PM   #325
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Actually it always seems to amaze me that people forget or discount the fact the Gt500 is $5k more, 250lbs lighter, with 80hp more and still can't beat the ZL1. Like you said, it's a 10 year old design, yet they are still charging $63k plus for inferior "road course" performance.
People do and always will buy the car that they feel suits their needs the best. I bought the car I wanted because it was the car "I" Wanted. I knew I'm not taking it to a road course and it won't go to a drag strip. Not everyone buys the car they do because they have something to prove. I don't care if the ZL1 can pull .2+ G's more than the GT500 at the limit, I don't care if I paid more for my GT500 than the guy with a ZL1 did. My GT500 is everything I wanted in a car and that's why I bought it. I wanted a car that can scare the hell outta. Not everybody buys because the car is .6 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile or 6 seconds faster on a road course.

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