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Old 01-03-2013, 04:43 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by SRT8Tech View Post
LOL.....thats a good one. Van is not just a weekend racer. Might wanna look into that.
And by the way, that video of Van was with STOCK BRAKE PADS!!!!! Not the hawk that MOST PEOPLE SELL!!!!
Here is one quote from Van himself........

"I've run with Randy at Daytona for a number of years and if Randy Pobst says he had brake fade I completely believe him. I honestly believe somebody didn't prep the car prior to his testing. Randy is an amazing driver and I believe that the car wasn't prepared adequately. That is the only test where a pro driver had a brake fade issue. Isolate incidence???????? I hammered these brakes today and Randy has given me tips on braking in the past.

If that's what they want to hang there hat on...........they've got bigger problems."

Ah Stock pads. I'll buy that. But what about the High temp brake fluid he was running at Sebring the week before? Did he take flush it out to run full stock pads and fluid at Holmstead?

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Old 01-03-2013, 04:44 PM   #352
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It's possible, certainly not provable, that Chevy did everything in their power to make the Camaro perform to its fullest. Afterall, following the owners manual instructions is definitely NOT cheating. Chevy might have put the proper brake fluid in the Car. Ford clearly didn't... That of course is just all hypotheticals


And adding new brake pads isn't going to help if you use the same crappy fluid
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:46 PM   #353
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Ah Stock pads. I'll buy that. But what about the High temp brake fluid he was running at Sebring the week before? Did he take flush it out to run full stock pads and fluid at Holmstead?

High temp brake fluid is recommended IN THE OWNERS MANUAL when using for the track........Stock pads in those videos......
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:49 PM   #354
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High temp brake fluid is recommended IN THE OWNERS MANUAL when using for the track........
Well there's your answer, without specific preparation for track use as defined in the owners manual, the GT500 just isn't comparable to the ZL1 in braking.

But then there is that fade that MT reported on those pesky canyon roads. What does the owners manual say about that?
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:55 PM   #355
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Well there's your answer, without specific preparation for track use as defined in the owners manual, the GT500 just isn't comparable to the ZL1 in braking.

But then there is that fade that MT reported on those pesky canyon roads. What does the owners manual say about that?
GM also says to change the brake fluid if tracking the ZL1.....Also, it seems that MT is the only one having :brake issues" with the GT500???

This is a pretty good read...

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234430
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:10 PM   #356
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Well there's your answer, without specific preparation for track use as defined in the owners manual, the GT500 just isn't comparable to the ZL1 in braking.
The ZL1 requires the same fluid change.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:11 PM   #357
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But, anyway, to get back on track. The ZL1 and 1LE kicked serious ass at the LL. Gotta love Pony cars kickin azz like that on the road course. I bet we see even better stuff coming from GM, Ford and Dodge in the future....

The 2013 GT500 cant win em all but it can win some and it has. Gotta give props to the ZL1...........The edge goes to the ZL1 in road courses. The GT500 of course is the 1/4 mile king.
Still have to watch out for the GT500 on a road course. Its not as bad as some people are making it out to be. From all the "flaws and inferior stuff" it has, its doing pretty well.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:24 PM   #358
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At 3:15 that is not within spitting distance....... that is 13.5 seconds slower then the 1LE Camaro. At 100MPH that is a gap of some 1,984 feet............. 2,116 feet in the case of the GT500 in other words MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY car lengths.

at VIR grand west it would take about 10 laps for the Mustang GT500 to lap the Focus ST and 11 for the 1LE Camaro.... in a 24 hour race the ST would finish many laps behind.

don't know about you, but I can not spit 2000 feet....
Wow! What a performance the Ford Focus ST turned in. Speculating as some did, it looks to me like the Chevy Cobalt (same class) would ONLY have beaten it by .2 seconds! I'm impressed!

The same things you all are saying about the ZL1 and the 1LE were said about the Cobalt in it's day...that was impressive performance!
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:41 PM   #359
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Didnt the GT500 beat the ZL1 around a road course a few months ago??? I gotta go find that pic......
Yeah but it was Motor Trend so I don't think it counts since they are arguably full of sh*t about inferior braking in the GT500.

I think we are NOW back on "the track" after that weird GT500 "slide mode" we experienced.



The ZL1 and 1LE are not to be trifled with on the road course. All the other competitors performed admirably but all other debates aside, GM rocked the 2013 Lighting lap with both Camaros.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:53 PM   #360
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Yeah but it was Motor Trend so I don't think it counts since they are arguably full of shit about inferior braking in the GT500.

I think now we are NOW back on track after that weird GT500 "slide mode" we experienced.

LOL........We gotta throw in some fun once in a while.
For real though. The ZL1 is going to be hard to beat on a road course when it comes to Pony cars right now. Im a 1/4 mile guy but do like to turn every once in a while. I was close to getting an AUTO ZL1 but its a little more easy to mod the GT500's. Love the auto in the ZL1 but love the big trap speeds im getting from my little 2012 GT500 with the minimal mods ive done. Still wish there was an auto GT500 option.

When is the next gen Camaro supposed to come out???
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:22 PM   #361
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Uhhhhhh, heat soak is either when the car is sitting......OR.... when the heat exchanger cannot get the heat out of the fluid fast enough causing HEAT SOAK even if the car is moving. Really dont have to get into it very much because its well known about it. Look it up.......I guess you could google ZL1 heat soak and see....

Im not talking about heat soak in the engine while sitting. Im talking about heat soak of the heat exchanger, intercooler itself which does happen becaue of crappy heat exchangers......

As far as the GT500 "brake issue", there is none. MT was the only one that mentioned it and pretty much determined that something was not right with that car itself. Go ahead and look that one up too. Its easy.
Well, I did google "ZL1 heat soak" and the first two pages on google are gt500 vs ZL1 threads where there are a lot of opinions, little fact....so I have to ask, has the discussion gotten so desperate that we're quoting other "GT500 vs ZL1" threads to make a point?

So here's some actual hard facts: Randy ran the ZL1 at Laguna Seca and had consistent times with the ZL1 +-0.2 variance. If there was heat soak, it wouldn't have been consistent...
Also, the ZL1 ran Nurburgring in 7:41, which wouldn't have been real difficult if there was heat soak.
I could quote the reviews saying the same, but the times speak for themselves and nobody has reported heat soak. So...I'm guessing its not an issue... I can say I've never experienced any fade, power, brake or steer, while canyoneering, on stock brake fluid I might add...we'll see what happens at the track soon enough.

As for the GT500 brake fade issue, there is one. Its simple physics. The GT500 has to do more work to slow down because its front heavy, its going faster entering a corner and it can't go as fast as the ZL1 through the corner, which means it has to burn more speed. Also, since its doesn't have brake coolers, when you get to the next corner, you're still trying to get rid of heat from the last corner. A lap or two of that and your brakes are baked.
You don't have to be a race engineer (or professional race car driver ) to figure out that its going to have to work a lot harder then the ZL1 which isn't going as fast and doesn't have to slow down as much and is ready for the next corner. The GT500 is going to fade, period. And no, changing the brake fluid to DOT bazillion isn't going to help, its the pad and rotors, not the fluid. Yes, having DOT3 will make it suck more then DOT5/HPF, but its a minor issue compared to the rotors and pads.

I swear, the ass knowledge is running deep
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:42 PM   #362
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And no, changing the brake fluid to DOT bazillion isn't going to help, its the pad and rotors, not the fluid. Yes, having DOT3 will make it suck more then DOT5/HPF, but its a minor issue compared to the rotors and pads.

I swear, the ass knowledge is running deep

So you are saying that the brake fluid will not make a differance? The fluid will have nothing to do with any kind of brake fade?

The ass knowledge is running deep. LOL. Ill give you a hint. What happens to brake fluid when it gets to hot?? Hope you dont find out the hard way at the track if you dont chage the fluid out to the correct stuff. That is if you actually will run it hard at the track. If not, you will be OK.


And I though we were going to be back on track too. Oh well......
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:52 PM   #363
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So you are saying that the brake fluid will not make a differance? The fluid will have nothing to do with any kind of brake fade?

The ass knowledge is running deep. LOL. Ill give you a hint. What happens to brake fluid when it gets to hot??


And I though we were going to be back on track too. Oh well......
You mean did I say this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vroom
Yes, having DOT3 will make it suck more then DOT5/HPF, but its a minor issue compared to the rotors and pads


Just an edit:
I know exactly what all of the above feel likes. It not hard to get some experience, stop dragging your car and take it to the track and see what it feels like. Try with your stock fluid and do 10 laps, try with HPF and do 10 laps. Try stock pads, try racing pads. Its not hard and when you experience life outside the 1/4 mile, you'll understand why GM built the ZL1.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:20 PM   #364
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This thread is entertaining to say the least. We have the occasional C5 posters who are going back and posting everything that's going on here on SVTPerformance, and then there's the die hard ZL1 supporters, then you have some that hate the ZL1 but fear coming out of the closet and then there's the spectators who chime in from time to time. Pure entertainment. I almost feel like we've completely forgotten about the 1LE.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:38 PM   #365
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I almost feel like we've completely forgotten about the 1LE.

Which actually suprised the hell out of me. Ford should have given a 2013 Boss for this again but they didnt. Kinda sucks that we have to base the current times with the Boss's last years time.



Here is the deal, I love a good argument and getting some peoples underwear in a wad. I do it on purpose sometimes. Im done with the bickering back and forth. Im keeping the rest of my posts in this thread serious. For real.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:42 PM   #366
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Which actually suprised the hell out of me. Ford should have given a 2013 Boss for this again but they didnt. Kinda sucks that we have to base the current times with the Boss's last years time.



Here is the deal, I love a good argument and getting some peoples underwear in a wad. I do it on purpose sometimes. Im done with the bickering back and forth. Im keeping the rest of my posts in this thread serious. For real.
I starting to wonder about that as well because Ford didn't want to Pit the 13' Boss against the 1LE and sent Motortrend (I think or one of the Mags) a 13' 5.0 with the track pack. They ragged on the 5.0 so bad I felt like it was an unfair comparison but when you think about it the 1LE is just an SS with a "Track Package" unlike the Boss which has a completely different engine.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:53 PM   #367
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I starting to wonder about that as well because Ford didn't want to Pit the 13' Boss against the 1LE and sent Motortrend (I think or one of the Mags) a 13' 5.0 with the track pack. They ragged on the 5.0 so bad I felt like it was an unfair comparison but when you think about it the 1LE is just an SS with a "Track Package" unlike the Boss which has a completely different engine.
I dont think Ford cares right now. Everything is changing soon for GM, Ford and Dodge. They will most likely wait for 2015 when the chit hits the fan. LOL

Nobody knows what is coming out from the "big three" in the Pony car deal. We do know the new Mustang will have IRS and be smaller. Dodge will have a supercharged 6.2L option but really dont know what the new chassis will be like. Really dont know to much about the new Camaro either.

Thank god I have what I want but most likely will need a daily driver if I go to far with the GT500. I always say "im done its fast enough" but a few weeks later......thats all out the window.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:15 PM   #368
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I dont think Ford cares right now.
Are you still joking???
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:24 PM   #369
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I dont think Ford cares right now. Everything is changing soon for GM, Ford and Dodge. They will most likely wait for 2015 when the chit hits the fan. LOL

Nobody knows what is coming out from the "big three" in the Pony car deal. We do know the new Mustang will have IRS and be smaller. Dodge will have a supercharged 6.2L option but really dont know what the new chassis will be like. Really dont know to much about the new Camaro either.

Thank god I have what I want but most likely will need a daily driver if I go to far with the GT500. I always say "im done its fast enough" but a few weeks later......thats all out the window.
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm looking to get a used Avalanche later in the year so it's just the ZL1 for now. I have a take home unit so between work and other things I get to drive her about once a week. Now what I'm really looking forward to is the Hemi packaged Chargers that we have replacing these Impalas. Front wheel drive vehicles just aren't made for Police work and V6's are worst on gas than V8's believe it or not.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:27 PM   #370
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Are you still joking???
Nope. What they have out now (Mustang) is going bye bye soon and going to a different chassis.

I think they will start to push AGAIN when the new Mustang comes out. They have proven alot with the current GT500, Boss, GT and v6 in the past year. They are selling pretty damn good.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:31 PM   #371
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Now what I'm really looking forward to is the Hemi packaged Chargers that we have replacing these Impalas. Front wheel drive vehicles just aren't made for Police work and V6's are worst on gas than V8's believe it or not.
Going from those Impalas to the hemi Charger will be freakin amazing!!! I worked on alot of the State trooper Chargers when I worked at dodge and they loved those things, and that was the old Charger body. They were hard on brakes though.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:32 PM   #372
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I'm in the same boat as you. I'm looking to get a used Avalanche later in the year so it's just the ZL1 for now. I have a take home unit so between work and other things I get to drive her about once a week. Now what I'm really looking forward to is the Hemi packaged Chargers that we have replacing these Impalas. Front wheel drive vehicles just aren't made for Police work and V6's are worst on gas than V8's believe it or not.
I believe it.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:36 PM   #373
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Nope. What they have out now (Mustang) is going bye bye soon and going to a different chassis.

I think they will start to push AGAIN when the new Mustang comes out. They have proven alot with the current GT500, Boss, GT and v6 in the past year. They are selling pretty damn good.
Trust me, they care and so do their stock holders.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:40 PM   #374
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Trust me, they care and so do their stock holders.
I guess I shouldnt say they dont care, but not going to push as hard right now with the Mustang. Certainly doesnt seem like it right now. Not hearing to much from them lately since the new GT500 and Boss came out. Certainly are selling a bunch of Mustangs though. They are pushing alot of the other Ford stuff right now though but not the Mustang.
I hope they dont turn into Dodge and not say anything about what is going on until the car is on the showroom floor.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:07 AM   #375
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If dodge can get the weight down when the challenger switches over to the SRT brand and drops in a sc hemi Chevy and Ford better watch out.
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