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Old 12-31-2012, 12:08 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by doc7000 View Post
The ATS 2.5 (standard) is 3,315 pounds
The ATS 2.0 (turbo standard) is 3,373 pounds
the ATS 3.6 (Luxury) is 3,461 pounds

Of course depending on options and trim levels these cars can pick up weight, most of the 2.0T as tested weight I have seen has been 3,430-3,450 pounds.
insideline has a auto 2.0t auto at 3515 which isn't bad ?? I don't know who to believe keep getting different numbers
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I'd figure 3,650+ for a 6Gen V8 Camaro.
I would say you are spot on sir!!!
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If the Camaro was to use the same wheel base as the ATS sedan then consider this, the V-6 Camaro is 3,750 pounds and the V-6 ATS is 3,461 pounds. That is roughly a 300 pound weight savings, if that carries through next Camaro that would put 3,850 pounds to 3,550 pounds.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

car and driver has the weight of the 3.6 at 3535 so I could see a 3500 ibs v6 but at 200lbs will there be enough of a performance difference how much faster is the ats 3.6 vs the Camaro and why no ats at VIR it would have been perfect to see what it can do and how to properly see the alpha in action!
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:31 AM   #121
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Not to take anything away from any of the cars but does anyone know which cars were tested on the same day? A lot of speculation about the gt500 having to run on a damp course while the camaro's ran on a dry track.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:08 AM   #122
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insideline has a auto 2.0t auto at 3515 which isn't bad ?? I don't know who to believe keep getting different numbers

I would say you are spot on sir!!!


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

car and driver has the weight of the 3.6 at 3535 so I could see a 3500 ibs v6 but at 200lbs will there be enough of a performance difference how much faster is the ats 3.6 vs the Camaro and why no ats at VIR it would have been perfect to see what it can do and how to properly see the alpha in action!
The thing about looking at the weights used for car rag testing is it is not a base weight, you are looking at the weight of the vehicle with options (and which ones). Plus sometimes those posted weights are est. and guesses, the official curb weight that I posted is from the Cadillac ATS official web site and Edmunds has updated its weights as follows.

In the Motor Trend test they tested I believe a fully loaded ATS (or near fully loaded) with an as tested price of $49,185. In the earlier Motor Trend test of the 2.0T ATS vs the BMW 328i the 2.0T ATS is priced at $45,910 and was stated in their test to be 3,433 pounds.

This isn't a matter of who to believe, its a matter of the difference in weight between a base model and a fully loaded model (which includes but isn't limited to bigger wheels and tires).

Though for the sake of apples to apples I like to compare base curb weight with base curb weight. The current lightest V-6 Camaro is the 1/2LT at 3,741 pounds, the 1LS weighs in at 3,780 pounds and the 2LS weighs in at 3,769 pounds (per chevy web site). They have both 1SS and 2SS at 3,860 pounds though I have seen the SS Camaro with a test weight of over 3,900 pounds.

With that said the base curb weight of a 2LT Camaro is 3,741 pounds and the base curb weight of the ATS 3.6 is 3,461 pounds a difference of 280 pounds. Also when the ATS was in development there were tricks that they did not take to reduce the ATS weight because it was a luxury vehicle which they could use for the next Camaro.

How much of a performance difference will you get with a 300 pound diet????.......With 323BHP and 3,741 pounds the 1LT Camaro has a power to weight ratio of 11.5 pounds per horsepower. A 3,441 pound 321BHP V-6 Camaro would have a power to weight ratio of 10.7 pounds per horsepower. That gives it a power to weight ratio not that far from the 2002 SS Camaro (325BHP and 3,411 pounds). Food for thought....
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:09 AM   #123
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Not to take anything away from any of the cars but does anyone know which cars were tested on the same day? A lot of speculation about the gt500 having to run on a damp course while the camaro's ran on a dry track.
The GT500 was tested with the ZL1 Camaro and 1LE Camaro (same lightning lap issue) as far as the GT500 having to run on a damp track IDK. It is possible that given how many cars that tested that they tested over weeks and as a result conditions could have changed.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:24 AM   #124
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The GT500 was tested with the ZL1 Camaro and 1LE Camaro (same lightning lap issue) as far as the GT500 having to run on a damp track IDK. It is possible that given how many cars that tested that they tested over weeks and as a result conditions could have changed.

ZL1, 1LE and GT500 were run on the same day according to the article.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:40 AM   #125
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ZL1, 1LE and GT500 were run on the same day according to the article.
Where does it say that?
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:47 AM   #126
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Would be a little embarrassing for the blue oval fans.
Ehhh, I dont know......The ring has alot of long sweeping turns and straights that would make it more of a GT500 type of track.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:11 AM   #127
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Ehhh, I dont know......The ring has alot of long sweeping turns and straights that would make it more of a GT500 type of track.
LOL....says the guy with a Ford.

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Old 12-31-2012, 08:40 AM   #128
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I just want to see a ring time from a 13 GT500 on a good day.
Didn't Ford have a couple of 13-500s at the ring about 6-8 months ago, for a few days. I don't think the results were ever released. Maybe the times were not that good? You would have thought if the cars were stock and broke the ZL1s times it would have been posted everywhere.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:00 AM   #129
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Didn't Ford have a couple of 13-500s at the ring about 6-8 months ago, for a few days. I don't think the results were ever released. Maybe the times were not that good? You would have thought if the cars were stock and broke the ZL1s times it would have been posted everywhere.
They did have have them on there but they never had a track rented like GM did. They ran the cars with all the traffic on there.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:29 AM   #130
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Put GM engineer Aaron link or corvette racer, Johnny o'connell in the 1le and you would see crazy low times at VIR.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:30 AM   #131
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Ehhh, I dont know......The ring has alot of long sweeping turns and straights that would make it more of a GT500 type of track.
But the brakes wouldn't hold up.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:41 AM   #132
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Put GM engineer Aaron link or corvette racer, Johnny o'connell in the 1le and you would see crazy low times at VIR.
Aaron turned a sub 3 min lap in the 1lE earlier this year at VIR..


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Old 12-31-2012, 11:31 AM   #133
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They did have have them on there but they never had a track rented like GM did. They ran the cars with all the traffic on there.
With all of Ford's resources they could not secure sufficient time to run a similar lap in the configuration to what Chevy ran, sorry I don't buy it. You spend how much money to get your vehicles there for testing knowing full well what the ZL1 had already run and you could not negotiate an open track for for a small amount of time beforehand.

All this really doesn't matter, as just about every publication has stated the ZL1 is a better track car, and much easier to drive given it's advanced suspension. The 500 is an incredible 1/4 mile and roll race terror, which is what many who drive Mustangs want. Nothing wrong with either car.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:56 AM   #134
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Not to take anything away from any of the cars but does anyone know which cars were tested on the same day? A lot of speculation about the gt500 having to run on a damp course while the camaro's ran on a dry track.
Wow, wonder where that would have been started???
Were there not multiple runs over a period of days?
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:14 PM   #135
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All cars ran over two days. The faster laptimes are on the second day, hence the mention of why the Focus ST could've done better because the laptime was from the first day and they couldn't run it the second day (forgot key fob on roof, fell during racing, broke into pieces).

Anyhow, there are many track tests between the shelby and zl1 and we know the zl1 is superior on the track, hence hard to doubt the LL7 lap times.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:01 PM   #136
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I don't even know why there are debates going on still about which one is a better track car stock. The GT500 is a quarter mile monster, Where as the ZL1 will out corner and out handle the GT500 ridiculously well hence the better times running around a track. Also the ZL1 isn't far behind the GT500 in the quarter mile either, people are breaking into the 11's pretty easily with good weather now.
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