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Old 01-01-2013, 02:08 PM   #201
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Laguna Seca and Streets of Willow the GT500 was faster. Tied on Grattan Raceway. ZL1 faster on Gingerman and VIR. I don't know how anyone can call the ZL1 substantially faster in anything...And less sophisticated technology? Suspension or engine? Because last time I checked a pushrod V8 is not the most advanced technology in the world...at least not compared to a DOHC 32V design...that has less displacement and puts out almost 100hp more...just saying
I wouldn't call it less sophisticated. Both have their ins and outs. OHC design doesn't automaticaly make it more advanced. Its not like several feet of chains and more valves are some high tech wizardry. Theyv been in use for 100 years, adding some dual vvt helps though.
I'm not hating on the gt500 at all, both impressive cars with similar performance.
However, by many counts, you would expect the mustang to be way faster than the zl1 on a road course, given the power and weight advantage. But, they come out very close.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:13 PM   #202
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I wouldn't call it less sophisticated. Both have their ins and outs. OHC design doesn't automaticaly make it more advanced. Its not like several feet of chains and more valves are some high tech wizardry. Theyv been in use for 100 years, adding some dual vvt helps though.
I'm not hating on the gt500 at all, both impressive cars with similar performance.
However, by many counts, you would expect the mustang to be way faster than the zl1 on a road course, given the power and weight advantage. But, they come out very close.
I think the fact that cheap ass Ford stuck 662hp in a chassis they designed for 300hp back in 05 speaks a lot as to why a car with 80hp more, and 300lbs less weight, only wins on half the road courses. I'm glad the VIR results are what they are and I'm glad Chevy made both the ZL1 and the 1LE, and I hope they make a Camaro with the LS7 as well. Ford has been upping their prices while not doing enough to justify the cost increases. I can only imagine what a 1LE will do on a track with an additional 70hp of an LS7, especially if it undercut the Boss 302LS price and came in at around 45k. Both of these car companies tend to feed off each other, but I think Ford has gotten too comfortable knowing that some people will buy a Mustang just because of the name. If they don't do anything drastically different to make their cars better on the next redesign, you can bet your ass I'll be shopping elsewhere. I fell in love with the 2011 GT that I have, and I will probably keep it forever, but Ford really needs to ditch the S197 platform if they are going to be going over the 450hp mark in it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:15 PM   #203
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However, by many counts, you would expect the mustang to be way faster than the zl1 on a road course, given the power and weight advantage. But, they come out very close.

Actually thats pretty damn accurate and what I have been trying to get at. The ZL1 and GT500 are damn close on a road course. The GT500 has won some and the ZL1 has won some on road courses. Its not an all out killing of the GT500 on a road course like this thread makes it out to be.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:16 PM   #204
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I gotta give credit to the ZL1. Making an over 4000 pound car do what its dong takes alot. Will the ZL1 out handle the GT500?? I say yes, that it depends on the track and driver. The ZL1 will be more easy to drive but I dont think its going to kill a GT500 on every track or even beat the GT500 on every track. Throw more laps in there and I bet the ZL1 will heat soak MUCH faster than the GT500. But I still give the edge to the ZL1 on road courses.

Now the 1LE and Boss. Thats a whole different story. The 1LE beat the Boss time on a dry track on a different day with no traffic compared to the Boss's time on a damp track with traffic. Just sayn.......Also im not biased. I could care less if its a Ford Dodge or Chevy......Ive had all and alot of each!!!!
All I can say is, WOW!
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:17 PM   #205
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All I can say is, WOW!
Me too......WOW.....see.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:19 PM   #206
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I say the same thing every time I unzip my pants!

And then I cry for an hour.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:21 PM   #207
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So I see this has turned into another "but the GT500 is better thread". To the guy posting the magazine times its nice to know that after all those GT500 wins it still came in 2nd place to the ZL1 overall. That is of course if you believe what magazines post.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:23 PM   #208
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Actually thats pretty damn accurate and what I have been trying to get at. The ZL1 and GT500 are damn close on a road course. The GT500 has won some and the ZL1 has won some on road courses. Its not an all out killing of the GT500 on a road course like this thread makes it out to be.
I hope that's what everyones agrees upon. Both cars are at a disadvantage from each other just as they are advantaged from one another. If that makes sense lol.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:25 PM   #209
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Bingo and why I posted this pic just a little while ago..........
Lol, did you find that on svtperf? Sooooo much hatred on that website, you would think GM kicked their dog and slapped their mother.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:28 PM   #210
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So I see this has turned into another "but the GT500 is better thread". To the guy posting the magazine times its nice to know that after all those GT500 wins it still came in 2nd place to the ZL1 overall. That is of course if you believe what magazines post.
Nobody is saying the GT500 is better, relax. People are just saying it's not as bad as the ZL1 fans make it out to be.

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Lol, did you find that on svtperf? Sooooo much hatred on that website, you would think GM kicked their dog and slapped their mother.
To be fair, THOSE people hate anything and everything that's not a Termi. They are a special bunch, but there is a lot of good info there to be obtained.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:33 PM   #211
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2 seconds may be slower but calling that substantial is a bit of a stretch imo. Especially considering at 3:00.6 it still beat out most of the other exotics on the list. You have to acknowledge that 3:00 is still very fast. All I'm saying is you get a 1/4 monster AND a car that gets around the track FAST.
Isn't it 3 seconds? And that equals what in distance? If you look deeper into the magazine write up you'll see even the 1LE beat the GT500 in the turns. The GT500 is "only" able to post a very good time due to all that power. It is a great engine in an old school chassis.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:36 PM   #212
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Didnt the GT500 beat the ZL1 around a road course a few months ago??? I gotta go find that pic......
It's the engine NOT the chassis.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #213
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It's the engine NOT the chassis.
Well when the ZL1 beats the GT500, it's the chassis, NOT the engine...

I don't understand the mentality of this forum anymore. The ZL1 is clearly the better car around the track, even when it's slower, it's still a better handler. Kinda like the Mustang GT vs. the 370Z. Yes, it's faster around the track than the Nissan, but it doesn't handle better. Ford has a certain formula that has been working for them, but they will have to change it very soon. People are starting to catch on.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:45 PM   #214
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Well when the ZL1 beats the GT500, it's the chassis, NOT the engine...

I don't understand the mentality of this forum anymore. The ZL1 is clearly the better car around the track, even when it's slower, it's still a better handler. Kinda like the Mustang GT vs. the 370Z. Yes, it's faster around the track than the Nissan, but it doesn't handle better. Ford has a certain formula that has been working for them, but they will have to change it very soon. People are starting to catch on.
I agree I'd rather see a different engine in the ZL1. The chassis can obviously handle much more.

And yes the engine is what keeps the Ford in the game. And Ford understood that, that is why they added all that HP.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:49 PM   #215
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:50 PM   #216
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Me too......WOW.....see.
The GT500 does NOT out handle the ZL1 or the 1LE (go back and look at the data in the article). It DOES have way more power to power to a win on certain tracks though.

The WOW was regarding the Boss comments. Sad (where is the proof of your statement?). C & D felt good enough about the numbers for the comparison.

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Old 01-01-2013, 02:53 PM   #217
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I agree I'd rather see a different engine in the ZL1. The chassis can obviously handle much more.

And yes the engine is what keeps the Ford in the game. And Ford understood that, that is why they added all that HP.
I say toss in the LS9 and up the boost to 15 psi. Should be good for around 725 hp
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:07 PM   #218
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I say toss in the LS9 and up the boost to 15 psi. Should be good for around 725 hp
I'd say a little over kill.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:16 PM   #219
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I say toss in the LS9 and up the boost to 15 psi. Should be good for around 725 hp
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I'd say a little over kill.
I think he means to challenge Ferrari. Otherwise I agree.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:19 PM   #220
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I'd say a little over kill.
Sounds like just enough then.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:31 PM   #221
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So we are supposed to worship magazine times or discredit them? Im totally confused with this thread. How about you go out there and drive your car whatever it may be. I havent seen a real world video of a zl1 taking down a gt500 yet....just saying. Sounds like its time to step it up or start buying some gopros hahahaha.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:42 PM   #222
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I'd say that this is pretty legit. Why? When they admit to errors in driving a lap I take that as being quite realistic.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:48 PM   #223
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I guess I can post up the vid of the ZL1 getting beat on a road course by a GT500. Its not a mag time or anything, Just real world stuff.

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Old 01-01-2013, 04:05 PM   #224
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The ZL1 beat all of LL3!! :O
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:10 PM   #225
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SRT8Tech,

Thank you for sharing the video. The GT500 sounds sweet. It appears to me that the Camaro ZL1 driver was hitting the wrong entry point at the apex and too early on the brakes? In other words squaring the corners off? That makes it easier to pass does it not? Was it the first time for either driver? As I stated earlier it's usually driver more than car especially at a track day event. I've done both cars and motorcycle track days and it is down to how far do you want to push yourself and the vehicle. Still fastest on my motorcycle hitting 170 at California Speedway in Fontana.
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