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Old 01-28-2013, 09:18 PM   #126
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We do its true, if you like we can call yours an un-muscular car?

I kid my friend I kid. I guess modern muscle is more appropriate? Or I guess we could just say "car".

they have turned it into a sports car more than a muscle car......
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:23 PM   #127
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I get it. It's okay to build a V6 that will out run your ZL1 ,but it isn't okay to make your V6 look like your ZL1.

That part doesn't make much sense to me. I would rather have them look like me and be much slower than be a V6 and be able to blow my doors off.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:25 PM   #128
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Well said. The op must be a kid with no understanding of cars.
Go to CF4 and you'll find out how big of a kid I am, or a local show around the area. By all means, I don't hide beyond a keyboard, I'm easily approachable...
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:30 PM   #129
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they have turned it into a sports car more than a muscle car......
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:34 PM   #130
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I like how everyone keeps calling the new Camaro a muscle car
that is exactly what it is..
it is not a sports car. it is American Muscle Car.
always has been always will be, until the day the Camaro becomes a FWD 4 banger..
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:39 PM   #131
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OP, I respect your opinion here and you certainly are free to feel the way you do. I simply fail to see how somebody modding their Camaro by adding ZL1 parts makes your ZL1 ownership experience less satisfying in any way.

I mean, modifying cars has always been one of the hallmarks of this enthusiast community. If some other Camaro owner wants to add ZL1 parts to their car, who are we to be somehow put out by this? More power to them. I think some could see this as a bit of a pompous position. Not everybody can or feels like dropping $60K on a ZL1. If there is some bolt on somebody likes and can add it to their car for a few hundred dollars, they should have easy access to these parts.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:42 PM   #132
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Not necessarily...



Just as the front bumpers vary by trim level for the Camaro, the front fenders vary by trim level for the Corvette. The fenders are a body component like a bumper or hood, but I don't think it is as cheap, easy, and practical to swap out 2 fenders as it is to swap out 1 bumper.

Grand Sport


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ZR1
I honestly would like something like this for whatever the 6th Gen "Top Dog" is going to be. Maybe include a vent in the quarter panel to differentiate between trims.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:48 PM   #133
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OP, I respect your opinion here and you certainly are free to feel the way you do. I simply fail to see how somebody modding their Camaro by adding ZL1 parts makes your ZL1 ownership experience less satisfying in any way.

I mean, modifying cars has always been one of the hallmarks of this enthusiast community. If some other Camaro owner wants to add ZL1 parts to their car, who are we to be somehow put out by this? More power to them. I think some could see this as a bit of a pompous position. Not everybody can or feels like dropping $60K on a ZL1. If there is some bolt on somebody likes and can add it to their car for a few hundred dollars, they should have easy access to these parts.
I might have said or came across it the wrong way. My intentions aren't bad, I swear, lol.

I guess I keep asking myself why do I not see Corvette owners imitating ZR1's? or CTS owners, imitating CTS-V's? Maybe they are in fact out there but not in strong force like the Camaro. I understand the whole modifying, etc. I have modified my previous vehicles but none of them imitated anything I guess, I wanted to stay away from that because I've never been that type of person or understood why.

A member did say it right though, imitation is a form of flattery. Maybe i'm asking for the wrong thing. Maybe I should be asking GM to consider making a ZL1 package similiar to what Shelby has done for the Super snake and the only way to obtain that would be to require a ZL1 VIN #. A (codename ZL1-R) package in 2-3 different stages? 630hp/680hp/750hp? Just a thought though. Aftermarket companies already have this being offered but for me it isn't the same as GMPP offering it, while remaining the factory warranty.

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Old 01-28-2013, 10:25 PM   #134
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that is exactly what it is..
it is not a sports car. it is American Muscle Car.
always has been always will be, until the day the Camaro becomes a FWD 4 banger..
A lot of old timers would disagree with your definition of "muscle car" (even though you sound like one yourself ) (no offense). This has been debated so much it's nauseating. I can't tell you how many times I've been told that they don't make muscle cars anymore, they stopped making them in the early 70's. In my personal opinion, I think the proper terminology is a "high perfomance vehicle" or some have used Modern Muscle - that would be acceptable also. Back in the day(60's & 70's, &80's), the Camaro and Mustangs were associated in magazines as PONY cars, and I think they are still in that class.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:49 AM   #135
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they have turned it into a sports car more than a muscle car......
In traditional terms, I think that makes it a proper "GT car". A mix of sports car and dragstrip with a touch of luxury - without being truly hardcore about any of them.

Whether it got there by adding "sports car handling" to a musclecar/ponycar heritage or added a whole lot of muscle to a 2+2 sports coupe hardly matters.


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Old 01-29-2013, 07:29 AM   #136
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OP, Corvette and Cadilac owners are a different breed than Camaro. The Camaro is the muscle car attainable by everybody. Corvette and Cadilac are a little more of an exclusive market and customer.

I do get what you are trying to say but it just can't ever apply to Camaro. Just wouldn't be right.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:46 AM   #137
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OP, Corvette and Cadilac owners are a different breed than Camaro. The Camaro is the muscle car attainable by everybody. Corvette and Cadilac are a little more of an exclusive market and customer.

I do get what you are trying to say but it just can't ever apply to Camaro. Just wouldn't be right.
Ah, ok. Hard to explain it all really. But yeah, lol.

How would you classify today's Camaro, revolutionary? Or is it evolutionary?
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:48 AM   #138
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How would you classify today's Camaro, revolutionary? Or is it evolutionary?
Mostly it evolved. The only revolutionary aspect aside from the pressures of regulatory requirements and recent add-on technological interior features is the IRS. Nothing else represents anywhere near as large a change from the car's 1st gen roots.


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Old 01-29-2013, 03:36 PM   #139
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I might have said or came across it the wrong way. My intentions aren't bad, I swear, lol.

I guess I keep asking myself why do I not see Corvette owners imitating ZR1's? or CTS owners, imitating CTS-V's? Maybe they are in fact out there but not in strong force like the Camaro. I understand the whole modifying, etc. I have modified my previous vehicles but none of them imitated anything I guess, I wanted to stay away from that because I've never been that type of person or understood why.

A member did say it right though, imitation is a form of flattery. Maybe i'm asking for the wrong thing. Maybe I should be asking GM to consider making a ZL1 package similiar to what Shelby has done for the Super snake and the only way to obtain that would be to require a ZL1 VIN #. A (codename ZL1-R) package in 2-3 different stages? 630hp/680hp/750hp? Just a thought though. Aftermarket companies already have this being offered but for me it isn't the same as GMPP offering it, while remaining the factory warranty.

Actually you would be suprised at how many Corvette owners buy the wide body ZR1, ZO6 or GS kits from GM or aftermarket and install them on thier base model Corvettes. Go to the Corvette Forums and see for yourself. I have not seen many people rebadge them however they all do it for the same reason people do it on the Camaro. They like the looks of it. I owned a GS Vette and people still said it copied the ZO6. If that were the case, then the ZR1 also copied the ZO6. Aside from the fender vents they all basically look the same. I also owned a 09 CTS-V (wished I still had it) and I will say I didn't see many, if any imitations of it.

They Camaro speaks to a wide variety of people and with so many on the road there are going to be people mod them tastefully and not so tastefully. The bottom line is if you don't like the so called lower end Camaro stealing your ZL1 looks, you bought the wrong car. The more expensive a car is the less likely someone will be able to copy it. As has been stated, there are many "grocery getters" that cost as much or more than the ZL1. That being said I would like to trade you my SS even for your ZL1! LOL
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:38 PM   #140
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Actually you would be suprised at how many Corvette owners buy the wide body ZR1, ZO6 or GS kits from GM or aftermarket and install them on thier base model Corvettes. Go to the Corvette Forums and see for yourself. I have not seen many people rebadge them however they all do it for the same reason people do it on the Camaro. They like the looks of it. I owned a GS Vette and people still said it copied the ZO6. If that were the case, then the ZR1 also copied the ZO6. Aside from the fender vents they all basically look the same. I also owned a 09 CTS-V (wished I still had it) and I will say I didn't see many, if any imitations of it.

They Camaro speaks to a wide variety of people and with so many on the road there are going to be people mod them tastefully and not so tastefully. The bottom line is if you don't like the so called lower end Camaro stealing your ZL1 looks, you bought the wrong car. The more expensive a car is the less likely someone will be able to copy it. As has been stated, there are many "grocery getters" that cost as much or more than the ZL1. That being said I would like to trade you my SS even for your ZL1! LOL
I can't give her up like that, lol. Not until 7 years from now, atleast thats what I keep telling myself. I pray I dislike the 6th Gen for that very matter.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:09 PM   #141
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Meh, I don't have a problem with non-ZL1 Camaros adding ZL1 body effects. Like others have said, it's a form of flattery, a way of saying "I really like the ZL1 front bumper or hood or whatever, so much so I think my SS or LT or whatever would look that much hotter with them installed." Just don't false-badge it. I'll always hate false-badging and always will, for two simple reasons:

1) The non-enthusiast isn't going to notice your fake badges anyway, and

2) The enthusiast will likely figure out very quickly that you're trying to pass your car off as something it's not.

If I saw a cool-looking SS with a ZL1 front bumpers, I'd think nothing but "Nice SS, and the ZL1 bumper really looks sweet on that, adds a little something."
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:25 PM   #142
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Meh, I don't have a problem with non-ZL1 Camaros adding ZL1 body effects. Like others have said, it's a form of flattery, a way of saying "I really like the ZL1 front bumper or hood or whatever, so much so I think my SS or LT or whatever would look that much hotter with them installed." Just don't false-badge it. I'll always hate false-badging and always will, for two simple reasons:

1) The non-enthusiast isn't going to notice your fake badges anyway, and

2) The enthusiast will likely figure out very quickly that you're trying to pass your car off as something it's not.

If I saw a cool-looking SS with a ZL1 front bumpers, I'd think nothing but "Nice SS, and the ZL1 bumper really looks sweet on that, adds a little something."
Agreed. However, so many people are doing this bumper swap. I may have to go with Rideskinz. I did like what AustinJames did with his ZL1 bumper though. (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263426)
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:32 PM   #143
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A lot of old timers would disagree with your definition of "muscle car" (even though you sound like one yourself ) (no offense). This has been debated so much it's nauseating. I can't tell you how many times I've been told that they don't make muscle cars anymore, they stopped making them in the early 70's. In my personal opinion, I think the proper terminology is a "high perfomance vehicle" or some have used Modern Muscle - that would be acceptable also. Back in the day(60's & 70's, &80's), the Camaro and Mustangs were associated in magazines as PONY cars, and I think they are still in that class.
Lol.. yeh I'm getting a bit older but not over the hill yet at 42.

Ive had early Camaros and 80s Camaros and now a 13. and 6 Mustangs dating back to 1968 all the way to 2003.

To me it is just as much muscle as it was in 67-69 especially the last gen where muscle cars made a complete resurgence.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:19 AM   #144
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Agreed. However, so many people are doing this bumper swap. I may have to go with Rideskinz. I did like what AustinJames did with his ZL1 bumper though. (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263426)
I like what he did too, very sharp, clean looking.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:44 AM   #145
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:58 AM   #146
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OP, I respect your opinion here and you certainly are free to feel the way you do. I simply fail to see how somebody modding their Camaro by adding ZL1 parts makes your ZL1 ownership experience less satisfying in any way.

I mean, modifying cars has always been one of the hallmarks of this enthusiast community. If some other Camaro owner wants to add ZL1 parts to their car, who are we to be somehow put out by this? More power to them. I think some could see this as a bit of a pompous position. Not everybody can or feels like dropping $60K on a ZL1. If there is some bolt on somebody likes and can add it to their car for a few hundred dollars, they should have easy access to these parts.

^THIS!^
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:48 AM   #147
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It can be looked at from different angles too.

I have an SS but can beat a stock ZL1 all day long at the drag strip AND maybe even a road race or two with my engine and suspension mods.

So why should a ZL1 owner get to have characteristics that make them appear to be faster.


Ok, I'm just playing.

no im not

Yes I am.

I actually see where the OP is coming from. But the way we are headed as a people is contrary to that. Hell, enjoy the status you've earned while there still is status to be had.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:49 AM   #148
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I might have said or came across it the wrong way. My intentions aren't bad, I swear, lol.

I guess I keep asking myself why do I not see Corvette owners imitating ZR1's? or CTS owners, imitating CTS-V's? Maybe they are in fact out there but not in strong force like the Camaro. I understand the whole modifying, etc. I have modified my previous vehicles but none of them imitated anything I guess, I wanted to stay away from that because I've never been that type of person or understood why.

A member did say it right though, imitation is a form of flattery. Maybe i'm asking for the wrong thing. Maybe I should be asking GM to consider making a ZL1 package similiar to what Shelby has done for the Super snake and the only way to obtain that would be to require a ZL1 VIN #. A (codename ZL1-R) package in 2-3 different stages? 630hp/680hp/750hp? Just a thought though. Aftermarket companies already have this being offered but for me it isn't the same as GMPP offering it, while remaining the factory warranty.

Another problem you may not thought of: earlier buyers didn't have some of these features available to them. With some of these modded SS, alot of guys that have spent more money than a ZL1. Heat extraction, aerodynamic parts, brake ducts, suspensions, exhausts.....are all parts GM SHOULD make available to early adopters. H***, if all the guys that modded their cars would have waited until GM release the "good" model, the Camaro might not have been as successful. Beside, the loaded ZL1 costs less than my Escalade ESV. A $50k can not be considered exclusive.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:51 PM   #149
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GM, just me personally but id take some consideration into making the ZL1, Z/28 models (or whatever high end model you deicde to go with) harder for others to make there LS/LT/SS into them. It may be impossible but owning several models I've never been the type to slap other models parts on it to make it a clone(unless it was produced that way from factory, i.e 1LE). It may be harder to manufacture but making it extremely difficult would deter others to clone.

Some may disagree but owning a ZL1 I've seen alot of cloning/copying going on as of lately, from the 1LE/ZL1 rims, to ZL1 conversion kits. It makes owning an actual ZL1 alittle less pleasing. I understand rims being easy to buy but making exterior changes to the body dramatically will make people think twice about doing major modifications. Simple bolt-on parts are what is making people do it, take that way, and that'll cure that issue. I understand you'll stay have the die hard cloners but giving them some speed bumps could be easy. Just like its hard for others to install the mylink Nav into older models the same could be done for other areas.

Just my thoughts and opinions. Thanks.
seriously?

boo hoo....

people buy what they can afford and mod to their taste.

Lambos have been cloned in kit cars for years, as have Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martins and many other high priced exotic cars.

Not everyone can afford the high end model, and as I recall "Imitation is the highest form of flattery"

So who gives a rats ass if they put a fascia on it..

-------


Now if they are upbadging a base or SS with ZL-1 badging, yes I will agree that is in poor taste, but the only person they are embarrassing is themselves.

Personally I think everyone needs to stop worrying about what other people do and start to look a whole lot harder at themselves. Why is it anyone's business how someone else decides to modify THEIR car that THEY paid for.

Now, if you want to fork over some cheddar for my mods I will be more than happy to let you decide what I can and can't do.. But until that happens.. Mind your own business.

---

And for the record, I would never put ZL-1 parts on my SS, but I won't mock those that do.


lastly I didn't read the whole thread, only the first page, so if I am repeating thoughts and sentiments already conveyed, sorry.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:00 PM   #150
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I will post again... change the badges too. What has happened to people's commitment these days?!
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