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Old 01-27-2013, 01:46 AM   #1
Ryan2011RS
 
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Improved engine internals before TT ?

I have a 2011 1LT, stock engine internals, at 36000 miles, engine was rebuilt about 10,000 miles ago but not totally sure what was replaced and what was re-used. But I had blown at least one lifter so my dealer replaced the whole block I believe. I'm getting to the point where I want to start a Twin Turno build. And I'm wanting to start a list on what I need before I start other than the turbo kit . I'm talking stronger pistons, lifters, stronger transmission? Driveshaft? I'm lookin Into upgrading my rear end strengthening it up, but I wanna know what all I'm going to need . Currently my mods are : ARK DT-S cat back, Doug thorley shorty headers, mace 25mm insulator, BBK cold air intake, RX Catch Can w/ oil breather . I'm going to add the ported throttle body, and ported intake manifold in the spring. I'm also thinking about stronger gears? Is that neccessary ? Stronger rear diff? I bought my camaro when I was 17 as my first car I have little experience to forced Induction builds. I'm 19 now and I've just about all videos on twin turbos and superchargers and I've pretty much made up my mind on the RX TT kit. I also want to eventual get the new mace cams . I'm basicay wanting to get all that I can out of my v6 LLT. I want to be in supra territory, as close as I can . I love the sound I'm producing now so I'd like to keep my setup but I've heard how people need wider exhaust the whole way back. I'm not asking for you guys to write me a huge book down to every detail simply just point me in the right direction, OR if you want to really help me out , I would love an explanation or a list of items. Thanks guys and I hope to be up there with the best of the v6s .
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:49 AM   #2
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I offer no help, but any videos of your camaro?
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:11 AM   #3
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Hey man I think your ARK is wide enough as far as I remember in terms of a TT set up. As for the forged internals, I think we just got some pistons in ( I know we have them for the LFX for sure)
I don't think your going to need all the forged internals to be honest. Reason I say this is because the LLT is limited by fuel supply and tuning. It's actually really sad because the motor could do soo much. Now if you had an LFX, that motor is a beast. Gretchen got 550rwhp at I think 9psi or maybe it was 13. Imagine if you built that motor and upped the PSI. It would be pushing some SERIOUS numbers (not that 550 isn't serious, I think 550 is amazing)
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:28 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ryan2011RS View Post
I have a 2011 1LT, stock engine internals, at 36000 miles, engine was rebuilt about 10,000 miles ago but not totally sure what was replaced and what was re-used. But I had blown at least one lifter so my dealer replaced the whole block I believe. I'm getting to the point where I want to start a Twin Turno build. And I'm wanting to start a list on what I need before I start other than the turbo kit . I'm talking stronger pistons, lifters, stronger transmission? Driveshaft? I'm lookin Into upgrading my rear end strengthening it up, but I wanna know what all I'm going to need . Currently my mods are : ARK DT-S cat back, Doug thorley shorty headers, mace 25mm insulator, BBK cold air intake, RX Catch Can w/ oil breather . I'm going to add the ported throttle body, and ported intake manifold in the spring. I'm also thinking about stronger gears? Is that neccessary ? Stronger rear diff? I bought my camaro when I was 17 as my first car I have little experience to forced Induction builds. I'm 19 now and I've just about all videos on twin turbos and superchargers and I've pretty much made up my mind on the RX TT kit. I also want to eventual get the new mace cams . I'm basicay wanting to get all that I can out of my v6 LLT. I want to be in supra territory, as close as I can . I love the sound I'm producing now so I'd like to keep my setup but I've heard how people need wider exhaust the whole way back. I'm not asking for you guys to write me a huge book down to every detail simply just point me in the right direction, OR if you want to really help me out , I would love an explanation or a list of items. Thanks guys and I hope to be up there with the best of the v6s .
I don't mean to be a downer or anything but as others have said, crazy hp numbers are just not going to happen because of the fuel issues with the car. Also, since proper tuning for the twin kits isn't available, you can't make the big numbers. You can swap in the v8 rear to give you a stronger rear. We have forged pistons now from RX to lower CR for more boost but since the car is plagued with fuel issues, I don't think it'd be worth it. Might help if you discuss that one with tracy. Don't need to change the gears either unless you want to. If you go twins, gears like the 1LE 3.91s might actually hurt you because you'll just lose traction like crazy. Essentially, you'll make about 400 hp and about 400 tq like every other FI build because that's about when we run out of fuel. A good build to look into for info would be Can't_C_Me's build. He has the exact kit you want but I don't know if his power numbers are an accurate representation because I think he has 2 damaged pistons.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:01 AM   #5
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Install the twins and go from there. Pistons and lowering compression I think a good ideal to run safe with a set of ported heads. Also as far as fuel we are limited but there are work arounds. It just depends on how much you want to spend how fast you want to go. Traction is going to be your biggest problem. A 400rwhp v6 is good enough for me. Although I am still looking into other ways to make it a little faster.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:59 AM   #6
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I don't mean to be a downer or anything but as others have said, crazy hp numbers are just not going to happen because of the fuel issues with the car. Also, since proper tuning for the twin kits isn't available, you can't make the big numbers. You can swap in the v8 rear to give you a stronger rear. We have forged pistons now from RX to lower CR for more boost but since the car is plagued with fuel issues, I don't think it'd be worth it. Might help if you discuss that one with tracy. Don't need to change the gears either unless you want to. If you go twins, gears like the 1LE 3.91s might actually hurt you because you'll just lose traction like crazy. Essentially, you'll make about 400 hp and about 400 tq like every other FI build because that's about when we run out of fuel. A good build to look into for info would be Can't_C_Me's build. He has the exact kit you want but I don't know if his power numbers are an accurate representation because I think he has 2 damaged pistons.
and it still pulls nice!! Looking at maybe getting that fixed this spring/summer.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:07 AM   #7
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Can't we just upgrade the stock LLT Fuel system? Reading all these posts about the llt being unable to go big makes me sad and consider trading in for an ls3
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:18 AM   #8
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Can't we just upgrade the stock LLT Fuel system? Reading all these posts about the llt being unable to go big makes me sad and consider trading in for an ls3
No, at least not yet. No one's been able to do it yet. I know tracy had said he had a solution but that it was extremely expensive at about 2500 extra over the kit. I'd love to see a car make more power but who knows who will step up because after 400 hp, who knows what will start to give out and when
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:32 AM   #9
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I would love to be one of the first v6'ers to see 6-700 hp. As I'm only 19 I don't have any other expenses , and I'm making really good money I'm thinkin I'm gunna go for it . I talked to Tracy at RX, 7900 TT setup installed, v8 rear diff I believe 2800, and I'm gunna do heads, cams, pistons, and gunna try the upgraded fuel pump so another 2500 I believe he said . This all wont be done till next winter but I'm excited and think I'm gunna try it . I'm already driving my dream car and I'm gunna try to get everything I can out of it , whatever may happen after 400hp will be all R&D for me . I want to see our v6s into supra territory. I've seen v6 supras pushing over a 1,000 hp . How amazing would that be
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:01 AM   #10
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Do you have another car as back up in case this goes bad? I don't mean to be a downer or anything but you are going to venture into uncharted territory so it would be nice to have something to fall back on.

I would love to see you accomplish this though. It would be a great accomplishment for our little engine if it can be done.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:57 AM   #11
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We have 4 cars here and only me and my brother so I'm good just incase it was to go sour which I'd rather not have that talk whatsoever haah Ill be saving up and I have a good amount from when my grandparents passed so If worst comes to worst I'd have to get a whole new engine, might go bigger if that was to happen. I have to much in my camaro already to just give up if things got real bad . I'm gunna have in depth conversations with many shops around me as well as Tracy from RX and other very well reputable shops who've built things like what I'm imagining .
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:02 AM   #12
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Yup. The fuel soultion adds close to $2900 and that is very costly bringing you into SS price territtory, but it is a very robust solution.

Our stroker forged crank is closer to release as well bringing the engine to 4.1L.

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Old 02-15-2013, 09:34 AM   #13
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Can you be a little more specific in your goals. Are you looking for 600-700 RWHP or BHP. Since you want to do the SS differential swap I am assuming you have an automatic. Those power levels at the wheels will take some major work for the automatic.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:51 AM   #14
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Yup. The fuel soultion adds close to $2900 and that is very costly bringing you into SS price territtory, but it is a very robust solution.

Our stroker forged crank is closer to release as well bringing the engine to 4.1L.

Anticipation of ... Well lets just say talk to Tracy at Rx...he's gonna put you where you want to be...I can't wait to get my girl in his shop #thumbsup# and good luck with your build will be watching out...

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Old 02-15-2013, 03:12 PM   #15
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Ryan2011RS....

Before you do ANYTHING, you need to do extensive research in a few key areas for the LLT:

1)Number one issue us tuning. Can ANYONE tune the Bosch ECM in the LLT correctly to support this kind of setup? It has never been done....at least not by a member on here. Gretchen tried his hardest with Trifecta, God bless him lol, but in the end getting much over 400 - 450rwhp just didn't happen. I believe he recorded nearly 500rwhp once on the dyno, but I don't think they were able to sustain it safely with the tune. He has since moved on to a 2012 V6 with the Delphi ECM, and has had great success.

I'm not saying it can't be tuned, but besides Trifecta, that leaves IPF tuning. Would they tune a car not running an FI kit from them? I don't know about that. No other companies that I know of offer custom tuning for the LLT.

The tune is crucial. Without a decent tune, your build is junk.

2) The fuel issue. The LLT doesn't supply quiet as much fuel as the LFX (I think due to a better pump?...not sure). Typically, in past LLT builds they saw fuel issues in the upper rpms when builds went much pas the 400+rwhp range. Most of the time, meth was used to supplement the fuel, although I'm not sure if that is a safe approach. So moving on...due to point number one above, I'm not sure there has ever been any added fuel system support ever used on an LLT that is proven to be reliable and effective....simply b/c no LLT has ever produced the kind of power you are shooting for. I'd look long and hard into the "solutions" out there.

3) Are you talking 600+rwhp or crank? As I said before, Gretchen approached 600HP at the crank with his LLT, but it wasn't sustained. Past that is uncharted territory. You'll want the whole bang up of forged internal parts of course assuming you can even get to this range.

anyways, my whole point here is that I don't want to see you drop 10 - 20 grand on new parts broken/replacement parts, labor, tune, not to mention chasis and suspension work, only to find out in the end the thing can't be tuned and runs like crap.

Do your homework and make a smart decision. Don't throw away money simply because you have it (unless your so damn filthy rich that it won't hurt you lol)
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:27 PM   #16
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All that hp is a waste unless you work on the suspension, beefing it up to handle the extra hp,
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:01 PM   #17
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Ryan2011RS....

Before you do ANYTHING, you need to do extensive research in a few key areas for the LLT:

1)Number one issue us tuning. Can ANYONE tune the Bosch ECM in the LLT correctly to support this kind of setup? It has never been done....at least not by a member on here. Gretchen tried his hardest with Trifecta, God bless him lol, but in the end getting much over 400 - 450rwhp just didn't happen. I believe he recorded nearly 500rwhp once on the dyno, but I don't think they were able to sustain it safely with the tune. He has since moved on to a 2012 V6 with the Delphi ECM, and has had great success.

I'm not saying it can't be tuned, but besides Trifecta, that leaves IPF tuning. Would they tune a car not running an FI kit from them? I don't know about that. No other companies that I know of offer custom tuning for the LLT.

The tune is crucial. Without a decent tune, your build is junk.

2) The fuel issue. The LLT doesn't supply quiet as much fuel as the LFX (I think due to a better pump?...not sure). Typically, in past LLT builds they saw fuel issues in the upper rpms when builds went much pas the 400+rwhp range. Most of the time, meth was used to supplement the fuel, although I'm not sure if that is a safe approach. So moving on...due to point number one above, I'm not sure there has ever been any added fuel system support ever used on an LLT that is proven to be reliable and effective....simply b/c no LLT has ever produced the kind of power you are shooting for. I'd look long and hard into the "solutions" out there.

3) Are you talking 600+rwhp or crank? As I said before, Gretchen approached 600HP at the crank with his LLT, but it wasn't sustained. Past that is uncharted territory. You'll want the whole bang up of forged internal parts of course assuming you can even get to this range.

anyways, my whole point here is that I don't want to see you drop 10 - 20 grand on new parts broken/replacement parts, labor, tune, not to mention chasis and suspension work, only to find out in the end the thing can't be tuned and runs like crap.

Do your homework and make a smart decision. Don't throw away money simply because you have it (unless your so damn filthy rich that it won't hurt you lol)
Exactly. I hope to see someone building a 5th Gen V6 putting down 700+ RWHP someday, but realistically I think it will take a while and a lot of money. It will definitely be harder with the LLT than the LFX. Think long and hard...learn from those that have gone before you.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:52 PM   #18
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Im shooting for 600 at the wheels with mine maybe. Im getting new heads and pistons I already have an efr turbo and meth. Im gonna put a tremec tko tranny with an adapter to my v6 with a custom driveshaft and 3.91 gears in the rear. I was wondering if you just made the last lobe on the cam a little longer would pump more fuel and then add a zl1 fuel pump
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:35 PM   #19
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Adding the height might be maxing out the stroke on the pump, but keep us posted
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:40 PM   #20
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600 rwhp keep us posted.


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Old 02-15-2013, 08:48 PM   #21
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Adding the height might be maxing out the stroke on the pump, but keep us posted
I would look at adding a fourth lobe first. I think the piston in the pump is probably at full travel now. Anything we do now could lead to over fueling at low rpm. A secondary pump might work, but it may also over fuel. I think the real solution is either a different pump or port injection at higher rpms.

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Old 02-15-2013, 09:59 PM   #22
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Ryan2011rs,

Lets do some cave man math.

-Stock 2011 LS HP = 251 RWHP
-Full suite of bolt on mods= 20ish RWHP
-FI mods simply by boost = 200ish RWHP (assuming 10Psi x 20 RWHP per 1Lb of boost) and you will need meth to get to 10Psi by the way.

Grand total potentially= 471 RWHP (on a good day if your lucky and none of us with a V6 FI are making this consistently by the way).

Just by cave man math alone how do you expect to gain another 130 RWHP to meet your 600 HP goal? It is not possible. The FI boost level would need to be 15Psi+ to get where you want to be just to barely get to 600 HP assuming fueling/tune is not an issue.

Since you are rolling in the dough and have plenty of cars to drive just buy a SS and put $20K into it and make 800 HP+. I know it would be very nice to say you are the first V6 to make XXX amount of HP. But a reality check would be the Jay Leno car and we all know round about how much that guy makes ($180 Mil net worth and $30 Mil annual salary). His car is clocked at 420 HP and is a Twin Turbo built by GM.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/c...ml#item=223986

I would love to see you get there and think it is a interesting idea but in all reality you are barking up the wrong tree and your resources are better utilized to invest in a SS/Zl1 to get the HP gains you seek.

Last edited by elsololobo02; 02-15-2013 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Reality check
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:09 PM   #23
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Ryan2011rs,

Lets do some cave man math.

-Stock 2011 LS HP = 251 RWHP
-Full suite of bolt on mods= 20ish RWHP
-FI mods simply by boost = 200ish RWHP (assuming 10Psi x 20 RWHP per 1Lb of boost) and you will need meth to get to 10Psi by the way.

Grand total potentially= 471 RWHP (on a good day if your lucky and none of us with a V6 FI are making this consistently by the way).

Just by cave man math alone how do you expect to gain another 130 RWHP to meet your 600 HP goal? It is not possible. The FI boost level would need to be 15Psi+ to get where you want to be just to barely get to 600 HP assuming fueling/tune is not an issue.

Since you are rolling in the dough and have plenty of cars to drive just buy a SS and put $20K into it and make 800 HP+. I know it would be very nice to say you are the first V6 to make XXX amount of HP. But a reality check would be the Jay Leno car and we all know round about how much that guy makes ($180 Mil net worth and $30 Mil annual salary). His car is clocked at 420 HP and is a Twin Turbo built by GM.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/c...ml#item=223986

I would love to see you get there and think it is a interesting idea but in all reality you are barking up the wrong tree and your resources are better utilized to invest in a SS/Zl1 to get the HP gains you seek.
I hate to say it but those that are telling you it isnt possible are probably right.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:40 AM   #24
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ahhhh i dont want to believe all this doubt !! BUT, i do. I just have hope, and as i may never reach my goals of being one with over 600 hp whether its to the wheels or at the crank, i still would love to get the most out of my camaro . i had the chance back in the summer to upgrade to an SS but i chose not to as i already had my v6 far from stock, and wouldve lost alot on it and lost alot of time and effort that i had put in the first car i had bought. And i feel it is too easy to achieve great numbers out of a v8, and would love to just absolutely make guys with beefed SS's and ZL1's wonder and want to know how i just beat them with my v6. With all that said im still gunna try my best and keep going with it. not that im going to just throw twin turbos in and throw everything on at once. I want to make this a project. NO by No means am i just rolling in cash to just throw away but i have become obsessed with my car since i bought it, and all these new parts being available for our v6s just makes me more optimistic.. BUT i do know that things will go wrong and parts will be replaced but i plan to keep my car for a longggggg time.. that is until the engine is completely shot and he transmission and other parts..

But like tracy said now they have a stroker forged crank almost ready to release just keeps me optimistic.. as i understand tuning issues and fuel issues will be ran into i hope some ppl are here with me on this and would love to help get us the numbers that we have the desire to achieve.. By no means am i throwing away everybodys advice to rethink what im talking about and fold before i end up losing way bigger than i could imagine..

BUT I AM going to build up this motor with all proven parts with proven results. i will be creating a big build thread once i get into all my performance mods which will start in the spring.

Who knows if this will happen, EVER, but i will be putting my money into beefing up this beautiful car that i own. It will take alot of time and alot of my money, but im in. You guys here on these forums have made me soooo anxious and very excited seeing what you all have done with these cars. And have made me want to be a big part of this and even maybe one day a game changer .
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:42 AM   #25
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also guys what all would i need suspension wise? i have springs and will be working on control arms as well as sway bars and end links, but im new to big HP numbers, so not totally sure.. all the help possible would greatly be apreciated
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