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Old 02-04-2008, 06:56 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Eisenhower View Post
Everyone know's that... That's easy to surmise even if you never register with camaro5, just by reading the posts. Because nobody even knows your real name. Your opinions up to this point may only be conjecture. -Introduce yourself.
I've introduced myself as an anonymous member of the design team. I haven't given any opinions, just a little inside information. Normal employees aren't really supposed to be issuing press releases like Scott is obviously authorized to do and lots of my co-workers read this and would say what the heck are you doing posting on forums even though I'm not giving away anything confidential. What have I said that would possibly make you think I'm an impostor?

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Originally Posted by brasscorpion View Post
In the 1st rear picture depicting the back fender area. It looks to be rolled smooth from the top of the wheel well to the top of the fender line as compared to the prototype. This seems to be kind of "grandma-ized".
The body etc is just as wide as the concept but the track width was un-realistic and rather than have the fenderlips hanging out over the tires they were narrowed 10mm or so. It was either that or narrow up the whole car. At least pro-streeters can always widen them back out since we left the body wide. Most of what you're seeing is the way that white paint and camouflage patterns intentionally hide the shape of the car though.

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Originally Posted by Camaro Lives On View Post
Does anyone have any idea if the vents at the bottom of the front bumper will be there at all?
Actually that's one change that was made just to piss off sbg. They're gone but luckily 95% of people don't notice the bottom of bumpers of cars that aren't spinning on the show stand.


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Originally Posted by sbg View Post
That's why me, as a long time Ford lover, could attend the LA Auto Show and be in awe as I saw the orange convertible Camaro spinning on the platform. ,,,I just don't get why you'd be so prejudice like that.
Dude you're going a little far. They saw the concept car, fell in love, saw the production spy shots and are still in love. To call that prejudice is a little weird. Believe me, I have overlayed the two cars in the computer several times and they are REALLY close. As close as we could make them. Are you going to keep posting about how different they are or just go away and complain about something else on some other forum? You're not going to convince people that serious profound unneeded changes were made that warrant not buying the car because they weren't.

Last edited by camero; 02-04-2008 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:11 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by camero View Post
Actually that's one change that was made just to piss off SBG. They're gone but luckily 95% of people don't notice the bottom of bumpers of cars that aren't spinning on the show stand.




Dude you're going a little far. They saw the concept car, fell in love, saw the production spy shots and are still in love. To call that prejudice is a little weird. Believe me, I have overlayed the two cars in the computer several times and they are REALLY close. As close as we could make them. Are you going to keep posting about how different they are or just go away and complain about something else on some other forum? You're not going to convince people that serious profound unneeded changes were made that warrant not buying the car because they weren't.
I'll only go away when everyone on this site admits that there were changes that are somewhat significant.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:14 PM   #241
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Why did they chose to go with 2 little headlights up front on each side (most likely HID's) instead of 1 like the old car?

I mean...headlight technology can't be that tough. Just go to any NAPA auto parts store and there are tons of solutions.

I am starting to think that all these pictures that we are seeing released are for the basic model. I would imagine that a Z28 model will come out 1 year after the basic production models are out.

You remember the old Mustang 5.0 cars (Vanilla Ice days). You remember how much different the 5.0 GT looked when compared to the 4 banger LX.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a SINGLE headlamp, Rear Deck Spoiler, Small front spoiler, possibly some body fender modification, wide ass tires and a Z28 emblem on the front grill just in front of the drivers position.

Sort of like the 2 stage release on the new mustang Gt 500.

Here are the facts...if the car doesn't rock when it first comes out, I wont be buying it...not at 25-30 thousand. There was a reason that the Camaro died the first time and like all other American manufacturers...if GM doesn't listen to the "tuner" market and the 18-28 age group...this car will die just like all the rest. Guys who drag race and grandpa's who drive to get groceries wont move this car in enough numbers to keep it going.

If you are a die hard "buy American only" person then this will be the car for you because right now all we have is the Mustang, Soltice and Saturn.

With the Toyota Supra coming back and the Nissan 350Z heading into it's 6th generation and Honda getting ready to release another sports car to top the Honda S 2000...not to mention Audi's new offering and the Lotus...I would buy one of these for 25-30 before a new Camaro.

Let's ask ourselves...and be real. Unless you live in Kansas or Colorado how much power "muscle" do you really need? Too much Muscle BAAADDDD, Speeding tickets BAAADDDD, Car Insurance BAAADDDD, K-Mart Sucks!!!

Brass
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:22 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by sbg View Post


See, there are a few reasonable folks around here. By reasonable I mean those who actually look at details on the car and judge whether we like them or not. I know that the judement is subjective, but we at least can point to some objective thing that we don't like.

Do you all see how that's different than the others who have a devotion irrespective of how this car looks or what changes are made.

Most of you simply "feel' something about this car. That feeling will make you act...you'll buy the car no matter what. Others like myself and Eisenhower don't only "feel', but we also factor in evidence (details and features).

That's why me, as a long time Ford lover, could attend the LA Auto Show and be in awe as I saw the orange convertible Camaro spinning on the platform.

I allowed the details and evidence to form my opinion...and look how much better that is. That means I can love Fords and non-Fords like the Camaro.

That's what I'm most upset about, not the changes to the car but the refusal by most of you to admit that there are even changes. I just don't get why you'd be so prejudice like that.
There is a difference between seeing the changes made and still appreciating the car, and not seeing the changes at all. I agree with whoever said go and try to buy the concept if you believe that there are that many differences in the two vehicles. It seems that all the changes now officially have been explained with reasoning behind them, if you can't accept them, then the camaro isn't for you?
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:23 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Killer CamAro View Post
Basically what you say is if you don't like a car don't buy. K we all get that but yesterday when the pats lost the superbowl, i didn't stop liking them they're still my team thru and thru. as for chevy the same goes. To me your calling yourself a bandwaggoner, and no one likes a bandwaggoner, so tell us how much you hate the changes and most of us here will listen to what you have to say but just remember the website isnt called Camaro Haters!
Ahh, my accusation confirmed.

You said: "i didn't stop liking them they're still my team thru and thru. as for chevy the same goes."

I couldn't have said it better, you nicely expressed what is known as prejudice/bias. Likeing something contrary to evidence. I wonder why you're prejudice about Chevy?

Do you think being prejudice is good?

I don't mind if you like a certain football team, no matter what, but know that you liking it "through thick and thin" is independent of whether or not the team is any good.

What we're trying to do here is discuss if the changes to the Camaro are good or bad. You might think that a football team is good, but if it loses every game then objectively it's bad...even though you may still remain a fan.

If GM decides to cut holes into the bumper to place backup lights, as an afterthought, then I call that a bad decision, just like punting on a first down while a yard away from the end zone.

So why such devotion to GM such that you guys can't admit the bad changes to the Camaro?

It sounds like a pathology worth you pursuing.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:24 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by brasscorpion View Post
Why did they chose to go with 2 little headlights up front on each side (most likely HID's) instead of 1 like the old car?

I mean...headlight technology can't be that tough. Just go to any NAPA auto parts store and there are tons of solutions.

I am starting to think that all these pictures that we are seeing released are for the basic model. I would imagine that a Z28 model will come out 1 year after the basic production models are out.

You remember the old Mustang 5.0 cars (Vanilla Ice days). You remember how much different the 5.0 GT looked when compared to the 4 banger LX.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a SINGLE headlamp, Rear Deck Spoiler, Small front spoiler, possibly some body fender modification, wide ass tires and a Z28 emblem on the front grill just in front of the drivers position.

Sort of like the 2 stage release on the new mustang Gt 500.

Here are the facts...if the car doesn't rock when it first comes out, I wont be buying it...not at 25-30 thousand. There was a reason that the Camaro died the first time and like all other American manufacturers...if GM doesn't listen to the "tuner" market and the 18-28 age group...this car will die just like all the rest. Guys who drag race and grandpa's who drive to get groceries wont move this car in enough numbers to keep it going.

If you are a die hard "buy American only" person then this will be the car for you because right now all we have is the Mustang, Soltice and Saturn.

With the Toyota Supra coming back and the Nissan 350Z heading into it's 6th generation and Honda getting ready to release another sports car to top the Honda S 2000...not to mention Audi's new offering and the Lotus...I would buy one of these for 25-30 before a new Camaro.

Let's ask ourselves...and be real. Unless you live in Kansas or Colorado how much power "muscle" do you really need? Too much Muscle BAAADDDD, Speeding tickets BAAADDDD, Car Insurance BAAADDDD, K-Mart Sucks!!!

Brass
or at least check out some other threads in the forum. The headlights have been explained to not be finalized, something about going to autozone and using hot glue
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:25 PM   #245
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To sbg

Adding another door would be significant. raising the roof 2 inchs is significant. shortening the track width by 10 inches is significant. Making a cost effective bumper that meets impact requirements . . . some will see as significant but others wont. I'm inclined to think that it is an improvement towards making that concept car into something that I can park in my garage

Increasingly I have the impression that you never intended on buying a Camaro. not because you drive a mustang or don't like the changes that have been made, but because you have ignored one crutial aspect that I bring up in nearly all my replies to your concerns: price. If you don't want to buy it, then price doesnt matter to you. Or you are so stinkin rich that money doesnt matter anyway. If the latter is the case, I urge you to give GM $2mil for a Camaro Concept. If you merely want to gripe about minor things that have been changed for good reason, go to the blogs.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:38 PM   #246
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I don't think i am prejudice, i have never once said that ford or dodge suck, i infact like both, but i preffer chevy's, and you are right, we are here to talk about the changes, but what your saying is one change that has made a difference now brok the deal that is great for you but we arent here to bash on how gm made one change, i wont say little, but a change that can make the camaro more affordable to the common person. but you can voice your oppinion, and if your so worried about if talk to camero or fbodfather about getting a job so you can make it how you want it.
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Old 02-04-2008, 08:35 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by sbg View Post
Ahh, my accusation confirmed.

You said: "i didn't stop liking them they're still my team thru and thru. as for chevy the same goes."

I couldn't have said it better, you nicely expressed what is known as prejudice/bias. Likeing something contrary to evidence. I wonder why you're prejudice about Chevy?

Do you think being prejudice is good?

I don't mind if you like a certain football team, no matter what, but know that you liking it "through thick and thin" is independent of whether or not the team is any good.

What we're trying to do here is discuss if the changes to the Camaro are good or bad. You might think that a football team is good, but if it loses every game then objectively it's bad...even though you may still remain a fan.

If GM decides to cut holes into the bumper to place backup lights, as an afterthought, then I call that a bad decision, just like punting on a first down while a yard away from the end zone.

So why such devotion to GM such that you guys can't admit the bad changes to the Camaro?

It sounds like a pathology worth you pursuing.
I never said they were great changes, just not enough for me to stop liking the car.

In my opinion, thats not blind devotion to bad decisions, it's just not that big of a deal.

When i bought my G35, there were a few things on it i would have changed given the choice, but they were not enough to stop me getting the car.

Once it is finished, i will go to the dealer and take a look, if i get there and realize i don't like it i will walk. I have the money to buy pretty much any of the muscle cars i like, if the Camaro dont get me then the challenger/ Mustang might.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:47 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by sbg View Post
Ahh, my accusation confirmed.

You said: "i didn't stop liking them they're still my team thru and thru. as for chevy the same goes."

I couldn't have said it better, you nicely expressed what is known as prejudice/bias. Likeing something contrary to evidence. I wonder why you're prejudice about Chevy?

Do you think being prejudice is good?

I don't mind if you like a certain football team, no matter what, but know that you liking it "through thick and thin" is independent of whether or not the team is any good.

What we're trying to do here is discuss if the changes to the Camaro are good or bad. You might think that a football team is good, but if it loses every game then objectively it's bad...even though you may still remain a fan.

If GM decides to cut holes into the bumper to place backup lights, as an afterthought, then I call that a bad decision, just like punting on a first down while a yard away from the end zone.

So why such devotion to GM such that you guys can't admit the bad changes to the Camaro?

It sounds like a pathology worth you pursuing.
I think what people are trying to say is (and keeping with your rather loose sports analogy):

We're not so much saying we'll stick with the team no matter what, but rather that our team won the championship last season (ie the outstanding Concept). Now it's the preseason and a lot of the old players are back, but not all and some of the new players are questionable. I'm not going to drop my team just because of scattered reports during the preseason. Instead I'll wait and see how they do through the whole season before I switch allegiances.

Everyone has things they might not like that much about the pre-production and everyone has things they like. Some are downright fanatical about the gas cap, but the fact remains that some changes have to be made for legal and safety reasons and if those changes are enough to keep you from buying the car then that's your business. For the rest of us, we might just still love the production model.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:50 PM   #249
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You know what i think would make it look more like the concept, if they put back the spoiler. Maybe thats an option for the production version.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:52 PM   #250
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I'll only go away when everyone on this site admits that there were changes that are somewhat significant.
There where changes, The changes are significant, but your arguments are based on personal opinion without any facts. You don't have to understand why they where made, especially because you refuse to believe what has been proven as fact. They were and you will have to live with them because you are not on the management/design/production team at GM.

Sorry SBQ your getting on my nerves, you have never said 1 good thing in your 23 posts about the pre-production model. That alone makes me wonder why you are here when you can be hanging at another previous camaro generation site.

PS. I'm not a blind devotee, I have never and WILL never own another previous generation camaro(All ugly as sin). I am following the mustang/camaro/challenger and even possibly a G37 or other 4 seat rwd coupe as thats the style of car I will be in the market for in about 1.5/2 years. Right now I see the camaro as the closest to the concept than any of the previously mentioned. If the production comes out and it looks horrible in person, I will go else where. If it drives horrible I will go else where. Until then its ALL speculation and HORRIBLE spy shots of mules that are NO WHERE near production spec.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:14 PM   #251
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What are you doing pouring it on you after you fill the tank? In all my years of pumping my own gas, yes, that's right, pumping my own, I've never reeked of gas from it. Oh, and another thing. I would prefer not to have my gas costs any higher by having to pay someone to pump my gas. Even if I had to have someone pump it by some stupid assanine law, I would stand there and watch every move this flunky made to make sure that gas didn't get anywhere it wasn't supposed to be. Like the paint. Or what about the attendant who isn't paying attention or is admiring the vehicle too much and dings the nozzle into your paint.

Nope, sorry, have to disagree with you here.........

And BTW, we had full service as well as self service here for years and people got tired of paying the higher pricer per gallon so they never went to those islands, the attendants just stood around, and that was that.......

I've never had a problem with a gas attendant damaging my car in my years driving.

And might I ask what gas is priced in your area? Might I remind you NJ has the lowest prices in the nation. That is WITH full service. I'll take my lower priced gas without the aggravation of pumping it myself thanks.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:22 PM   #252
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What's with all the hate in this thread? Why can't we all just be friends, united by our love of the Camaro?

Everyone needs to take a deep breath and chill.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:23 PM   #253
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I've never had a problem with a gas attendant damaging my car in my years driving.

And might I ask what gas is priced in your area? Might I remind you NJ has the lowest prices in the nation. That is WITH full service. I'll take my lower priced gas without the aggravation of pumping it myself thanks.
Well i know where im movin now haha!!
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:23 PM   #254
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When I first saw the Concept unveiled all I could say was DAMMMNNN that thing looks HOT. About 10 seconds later I said to myself that there is NO WAY the production model will ever look like that and knew that there would some changes. I have kept my mind 100% open and now seeing what the real changes are and see they are minuscule since in my opinion it is 95% identical to the concept I am still in love with this car. What I am really buying this car for is whats under the hood, but as of now we are clueless as to what size engines or hp numbers to expect.

If there is anything about the new Camaro that is not up to my liking when the time comes, I will simply look elsewhere for another high performing RWD coupe whether it be a Challenger, Mustang, G37, etc. I am not blind in liking the Camaro but, have a strong bond with this car because I have grown up in them and have never owned one myself.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:49 PM   #255
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If you honestly expected the production model to be a carbon copy of the concept you're mad. There has never been one concept car that has translated 100% to production. I noticed the changes, and for the most part I appreciate them. As far as the bumper, well I prefer my Camaro to survive small parking lot incidents that (God forbid) could happen. With the gas-cap, well I agree with Scott, I prefer a Camaro that doesn't explode in a crash (again God forbid). I'm still holding out hoping we still see a better looking gas cap in the new location, but time will tell. I don't expect to see some high dollar special appearance gas cap on a preproduction model that is used for testing. As far as mirrors go, well I'm darn happy we didn't get the mirrors out of the concept. I prefer to see behind me and to the side when I'm trying to change lanes and back up. You may not like the changes, but many of us see them and do like them. Personally, driving the concept would be more trouble than its worth. I'd take the far more practical production car any day.
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