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Old 02-03-2013, 01:46 PM   #29
Rhino79

 
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Derrick, I have contacted Ross at efilive, this issue has to do with torque model coefficients, he is sending me a file from a turbo Buick factory setup to check the differences. It's not a bunch of smoke and mirrors, and when we get it right, I will post straight forward table names and settings. I think the secrecy around the lfx launch issues is a shame, that a few that know act like its black magic. Its issues like this where people have the chance to help others, and I will do that once we have yours solved.

Oh and when we are done, Ross wants your car to cover the efilive newsletter, I have posted your results over there ans they show a ton of interest. Congrats on that setup dude, its a beast!
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:52 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Rhino79 View Post
Derrick, I have contacted Ross at efilive, this issue has to do with torque model coefficients, he is sending me a file from a turbo Buick factory setup to check the differences. It's not a bunch of smoke and mirrors, and when we get it right, I will post straight forward table names and settings. I think the secrecy around the lfx launch issues is a shame, that a few that know act like its black magic. Its issues like this where people have the chance to help others, and I will do that once we have yours solved.

Oh and when we are done, Ross wants your car to cover the efilive newsletter, I have posted your results over there ans they show a ton of interest. Congrats on that setup dude, its a beast!

Rhino: Have you tried to pull back the engine tq management tables.. This is also a factor in the 2012+ Camaros & Corvettes too.. GM now uses the predicted load against the TM tables, and they cannot be maxxed out. If the tables are maxxed out (Like every tuner has done since 1997-present including me) the car will not brake stall nor achieve full throttle early or late in the RPM (Really only affected on FI cars). Bring the TM tables back to stock, and start increasing the values little by little you'll see the throttle opening up where you want it. My first 2012 Camaro I'm like WTF is this thing pulling predicted throttle out upstairs...

Also logging these few items will help you.

Delivered/Actual Engine Torque
APP Sensor Position
TPS
TCS Desired Engine Torque
RPM Limit Type
Spark TqMgt Type
ETC TqMgt Type
FuelCut TqMgt Type
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rhino79 View Post
Derrick, I have contacted Ross at efilive, this issue has to do with torque model coefficients, he is sending me a file from a turbo Buick factory setup to check the differences. It's not a bunch of smoke and mirrors, and when we get it right, I will post straight forward table names and settings. I think the secrecy around the lfx launch issues is a shame, that a few that know act like its black magic. Its issues like this where people have the chance to help others, and I will do that once we have yours solved.

Oh and when we are done, Ross wants your car to cover the efilive newsletter, I have posted your results over there ans they show a ton of interest. Congrats on that setup dude, its a beast!
Thanks man. Figured you guys would waste no time trying to tackle it. Let me know what they need for cover.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Matt @ FSP View Post
Rhino: Have you tried to pull back the engine tq management tables.. This is also a factor in the 2012+ Camaros & Corvettes too.. GM now uses the predicted load against the TM tables, and they cannot be maxxed out. If the tables are maxxed out (Like every tuner has done since 1997-present including me) the car will not brake stall nor achieve full throttle early or late in the RPM (Really only affected on FI cars). Bring the TM tables back to stock, and start increasing the values little by little you'll see the throttle opening up where you want it. My first 2012 Camaro I'm like WTF is this thing pulling predicted throttle out upstairs...

Also logging these few items will help you.

Delivered/Actual Engine Torque
APP Sensor Position
TPS
TCS Desired Engine Torque
RPM Limit Type
Spark TqMgt Type
ETC TqMgt Type
FuelCut TqMgt Type
Thanks Matt. Like Rhino says, we've got to work together on this and your help is very appriciated.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:05 PM   #33
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Thanks Matt. Like Rhino says, we've got to work together on this and your help is very appriciated.

Same here.. SHARE THE INFO... The only one that acts like its black magic is the same person that thinks his poo don't stink either, I'll leave names out of this discussion.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:49 PM   #34
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Well what I have done was increase the tq response tables a bit in the 83-100% area. I also Increase the torque control tables by various percentages. It seemed to help some, but according to ross at efilive, we can mimmic the setting on the Torque model tables in the ECM to those that the buick regal turbo uses as it is factory fi. He said it will change the throttle response dramatically. According to him there are no magical throttle limiting tables, that these ecms use the torque model coefficients to alter reported tq. This is not new as efilive cracked open the torque model tables in the e38s a while ago and bumping those up dramtically helped tcm tuning. It does so by adding a blanket coverage to the tcm, since everything is tq based, by increasing the amount of tq the tcm sees, it allows that increase to the hundreds if not thousands of tables we dont have access to.

Now that may be causing an issue with the throttle issue on the e39 as Ross indicated, so I am awaiting the file from him of the turbo buick to see what gm is doing as a baseline, then we can go from there. I will email the file to you if youd like matt, and derrick.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:17 PM   #35
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Sure would love to see it Rhino.. I don't do too much in EFILive, but have past experience using Doug's EFILive cables up north. So I understand how to get myself around the program, what all your tables look like, but my speed in that program is terrible vs. hptuners ha.

- Matt
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:22 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino79 View Post
Well what I have done was increase the tq response tables a bit in the 83-100% area. I also Increase the torque control tables by various percentages. It seemed to help some, but according to ross at efilive, we can mimmic the setting on the Torque model tables in the ECM to those that the buick regal turbo uses as it is factory fi. He said it will change the throttle response dramatically. According to him there are no magical throttle limiting tables, that these ecms use the torque model coefficients to alter reported tq. This is not new as efilive cracked open the torque model tables in the e38s a while ago and bumping those up dramtically helped tcm tuning. It does so by adding a blanket coverage to the tcm, since everything is tq based, by increasing the amount of tq the tcm sees, it allows that increase to the hundreds if not thousands of tables we dont have access to.

Now that may be causing an issue with the throttle issue on the e39 as Ross indicated, so I am awaiting the file from him of the turbo buick to see what gm is doing as a baseline, then we can go from there. I will email the file to you if youd like matt, and derrick.
Sure!
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:26 PM   #37
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Hey Derrick, can you email me your current tcm and ecm files? Id like to compare to this buick. Ill forward Ross's email to ya too.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:38 PM   #38
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Hey Derrick, can you email me your current tcm and ecm files? Id like to compare to this buick. Ill forward Ross's email to ya too.
They are on their way.
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:25 PM   #39
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Okay, here is a screenshot of one of about 88 tables that contribute to tq calculations. I have sent Derrick an updated file, after 30 mins of copy and pasting and bloody finger tips....lmao.

These are the tables in question, we shall see if this is the key to the lfx dilemma.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:29 PM   #40
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Good stuff guys. Very interesting....loving the teamwork
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:49 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Rhino79 View Post
Okay, here is a screenshot of one of about 88 tables that contribute to tq calculations. I have sent Derrick an updated file, after 30 mins of copy and pasting and bloody finger tips....lmao.

These are the tables in question, we shall see if this is the key to the lfx dilemma.
Thanks man, got the files. I'll try to load them tomorrow, but I may not get to test until this weekend.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:14 AM   #42
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So to recap, here is how I see it. Tell me if I'm wrong lol.

Stock tune only allows so much throttle input either up to a certain rpm or MPH. If you take the table, and "max" it outs...it will basically do the same. In other words...it doesn't like it.

So instead, you take the tables and increase those values up from stock, but less than max until you find right where you want to be?

If that is the case, could an LFX owner running a full bolt on N/A but untuned (or perhaps tuned but with maxed out tables) run into this same problem??
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