GM out done by Hyundai

[unkbd]

During the Superbowl I think I saw a commercial for a 375Hp Hyundai. Then I saw it again today. Along the lines of speculation ... what are the odds that GM will let the Camaro debut with less HP than this Hyundai? And before I get , let me say I only brought it up cause I think it brings a little insight to what we may be getting for an engine. I can't believe that GM would let this happen. Maybe on the V6 model, but not the V8.

[Mr. Wyndham]

mmmm...neh. I don't think so.
With Challenger rumored to have a base V8 w. ~380 hp, the Mustang rumored to be putting out 350-375 ish, and now this....I think +/-400hp for the base V8 Camaro is probably your best bet.

[The_Blur]

It's only horsepower. They never mentioned any torque specs. Don't forget how easy to beat the 190-hp Civic Si (yes, I know Honda and Hyundai are not the same) is even when compared to the Cobalt Sport (173 hp) due to extremely weak torque. They still don't have OnStar or a lineage of history. It's good to see Hyundai making a good platform, but I wouldn't worry too much about considering it competition. Expect Lexus to take a small loss. Remember that Hyundai has to overcome what GM is still working to overcome—a reputation. While Toyota and Honda took advantage of low American car quality in the past, Hyundai did not make a name for itself as a pinnacle of quality cars. They were just another import car company.

[VTXrider]

The torque number is 333 amazing for a Hyundai. They said a BMW 3 series price. Anyone expect a line for a $40k Hyundai?

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by VTXrider

The torque number is 333 amazing for a Hyundai. They said a BMW 3 series price. Anyone expect a line for a $40k Hyundai?

That is really impressive for most car companies, especially Hyundai. I can't believe I missed that.

Even still, I think they're going to have trouble selling it with a cursive H on the front end. It's a Hyundai. No one will back off of their BMW for one. They might defect from Lexus, but I can't imagine someone valuing Hyundai's brand higher than a company known for luxury or power. I'm not denying that the Genesis is impressive. I just think Hyundai has a long road ahead if they want this car to be accepted among luxury or performance buyers as far as brand development is concerned.

['09-Z28]

The Genesis sedan won't even be competition for the Camaro. It is meant to
compete with cars like the G8, Avalon, and Maxima - according to Motor
Trend.

The coupe is said to be in competition with the Mustang and Camaro.Here's
what MotorTrend said about the coupe:
"There's no V-8 for the Hyundai's rear-drive "BT" coupe. Although it's based
on the Genesis, it's shorter and doesn't have enough space under the hood
to package the new Tau V-8. But Hyundai is wringing nearly 300 horses out
of its 3.8-liter V-6, so the car could be a credible Mustang GT-fighter for less
than $25,000."

[radz28]

Very disturbing, LOL.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by '09-Z28

The Genesis sedan won't even be competition for the Camaro. It is meant to
compete with cars like the G8, Avalon, and Maxima - according to Motor
Trend.

The coupe is said to be in competition with the Mustang and Camaro.Here's
what MotorTrend said about the coupe:
"There's no V-8 for the Hyundai's rear-drive "BT" coupe. Although it's based
on the Genesis, it's shorter and doesn't have enough space under the hood
to package the new Tau V-8. But Hyundai is wringing nearly 300 horses out
of its 3.8-liter V-6, so the car could be a credible Mustang GT-fighter for less
than $25,000."

Well, putting two, and two together, if it's a Mustang Fighter, than it's bound to be a Camaro-fighter too.

But, I don't think any Sedan will impede on the Mustang/Camaro segment. BUT...best not to take chances, right?

[DGthe3]

slightly off topic, but going back to hp and torque of american vs japanesse engines, I was reading up on the engines used in the Ariel Atom (1000 lb go cart with 300 hp). It uses a s/c'd ecotec engines for the Amerian version, and a s/c'd Honda engine in Europe. Both get 300 hp for the top version. BUT the ecotec gets 250 ft-lbs of torque but the Honda has only 163! and both of them are 2.0L engines

back on topic . . .

[MCPOAJ]

I don't think that chevrolet will let this happen the 09 Camaro is gonna be powerful they'll put the LS2 (just what i think they'll do) in the standard so i don't think that the 6 cylinder will be that bad.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by MCPOAJ

I don't think that chevrolet will let this happen the 09 Camaro is gonna be powerful they'll put the LS2 (just what i think they'll do) in the standard so i don't think that the 6 cylinder will be that bad.

Your kidding right?

The LS2 is in the Camaro concept but will NOT be in the production model. - Its a out of date, discontinued motor lol.

..

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by MCPOAJ

I don't think that chevrolet will let this happen the 09 Camaro is gonna be powerful they'll put the LS2 (just what i think they'll do) in the standard so i don't think that the 6 cylinder will be that bad.

LS2 is pretty much dead. The LS3 costs about the same, gets about the same mileage, and gets more power. I hope you aren't disapointed. The articles that you have read about the LS2 going into the Camaro was either refering to the concept, or was just misinformed.

[MCPOAJ]

alright i see i'm not disapointed thats just what i thought because thats what they put in the GTO and had in the concept and sorry if i don't no anything about i haven't done much research

[asrapid]

IF hyundai put v8 in their coupe they will have around 380 hp..GM has couple of engine which puts more than that LS3, L92, LSA, LS9. I heard some rumors about supercharged Tau v8..but i don't think it is anywhere near HP level of supercharged LS series. of course not to mention development on future engines.
But cahllenger with their 6.4 l V8 (if it gets produce) and mustang with new boss v8 could be closer in power .

[DGthe3]

Everyones gotta start somewhere, and this is one of the best places to have that start. Hang around, read some threads on engine speculation and pricing, and soon you will know more than 99% of the people out there

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Everyones gotta start somewhere, and this is one of the best places to have that start. Hang around, read some threads on engine speculation and pricing, and soon you will know more than 99% of the people out there

We're not about to shun anybody out, or try and make you unwelcome. Unlike 'other' places...Look around - I'm sure you'll be MORE than happy with our potential engine options in lieu of an LS2.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by MCPOAJ

alright i see i'm not disapointed thats just what i thought because thats what they put in the GTO and had in the concept and sorry if i don't no anything about i haven't done much research

No worries. Just understand that we've known around here for a LOOOONG time that the LS2 is pretty much dead, yet it keeps getting reported in the media and by people not following GM engine lineups as closely as we do that the Camaro will get an LS2. Kinda frustrating. Stick around long enough (I sure hope you do) and you'll eventually develop a twitch every time someone mentions "LS2".

P.S. I could have sworn we had a smiley showing a nervous twitch. Hmm...

[MCPOAJ]

Originally Posted by stovt001

No worries. Just understand that we've known around here for a LOOOONG time that the LS2 is pretty much dead, yet it keeps getting reported in the media and by people not following GM engine lineups as closely as we do that the Camaro will get an LS2. Kinda frustrating. Stick around long enough (I sure hope you do) and you'll eventually develop a twitch every time someone mentions "LS2".

P.S. I could have sworn we had a smiley showing a nervous twitch. Hmm...

oh... well sorry i even mentioned it... i'm even happier their putting a more powerful engine in it i really feel that i'd like it to be more powerful then the new GTR cause my friend is talkin Sh*t and saying that the skyline would smoke the new Camaro...

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by MCPOAJ

oh... well sorry i even mentioned it... i'm even happier their putting a more powerful engine in it i really feel that i'd like it to be more powerful then the new GTR cause my friend is talkin Sh*t and saying that the skyline would smoke the new Camaro...

It probably will since the GTR will be all wheel drive and cost twice as much. power to weight will be nearly equal, but the GTR will be able to put all of its power to the ground. Better to use the ZR1 in discussions about the GTR: 140 more hp, 150 more ft lbs of torque, 500 lbs less weight, and most likely better brakes. Now, if you want to compare the Camaro to tuners in its price class like the Evo X and the Impreza WRX STI, it should destroy them.

[Sweeper]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

.............. Now, if you want to compare the Camaro to tuners in its price class like the Evo X and the Impreza WRX STI, it should destroy them.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by stovt001

P.S. I could have sworn we had a smiley showing a nervous twitch. Hmm...

Originally Posted by Sweeper

That was a great laugh!!!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Sweeper

Well, assuming that it is the 'top dog' Camaro, probably costing something between 35k and 40k it will cost about the same. It will also weigh within about 10% of them. Have comparable skidpad numbers (0.9+). But it will be making 430 hp minimum, with 420 ft lbs. These numbers could go all the way up to 500 but that would probably be over 40k. Those two tuners will have turbocharged 4 cylinder engines making 300 hp or so and about 300 ft lbs of torque. Even if they have all wheel drive, the Camaro should have better 0-60, 1/4 mile, and race circuit times, while delivering comparable if not superior gas mileage. The Camaro might lose in a slalom, and probably lose in a rally race. So, in comparison tests, if the camaro loses in any particular area, it won't be by much. But when it wins, it will likely be by a large margin.

Please note the use of 'could' 'should' and 'probably', as well as the warning in my sig.

[MCPOAJ]

Originally Posted by Sweeper

thats funny and ok cause he loves the evo too he loves to talk trash it gets on my nerves if i beat him with the muscle cars then he uses european cars like lambo's but cause of the new ZR1 it preatty much even's the field

[Good53X]

The corvette does what it does amazingly well for the price.

European supercars have their place, too, I just don't want one, not to mention I couldn't afford one if I did.

There's a low-budget option too, for those without 40 grand to spend... find an old car, buy a new engine, and go to town. Really, if you have the energy you'll find a way.

What you get when you purchase a mid-level (mid-high level :P) performance car these days ranges hugely. Raw numbers, control, appearance, name. You pay for everything.

BMWs and Audis and the much loved GTR (dropped the skyline nomer) are great vehicles, but they carry stupid pricetags and (imho) don't perform well enough comparably. In any 60k situation I'd put the 'vette out on top - this isn't where the Camaro is supposed to be (I think).

And I surely hope that the Camaro comes in lighter than the GTR, that thing is a behemoth (In excess of 3500lbs). AWD alone adds quite a bit, so we'll have to see what the production kerb weight is.

[smike07]

I'm not worried about Hyundai "outdoing" GM on performance. Sure, maybe they'll have a 380 h.p. car, but id doesn't do much good if the car's wheels fall off when you punch the gas! Even with 380 h.p., the Hyundai won't have enough torque to "take the minivan with it". I'll pull up to any Hyundai with 380+ h.p. and smoke it with a stock '02 SS. That gives the thing a +- 50 h.p. advantage. Not only that, it'd probably piss coolant the second it hears the Camaro's rumbling engine pull up.