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Old 02-22-2013, 03:11 PM   #51
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would like to see a 1le time
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:15 PM   #52
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Man would that be cool to know the track like that and be able to run those cornerspeeds(sorry had to especially that last 170 mph section.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:20 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mikamaro View Post
QUOTED FROM ''http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ing-lap-record''

The stickler is that the Subaru in question wasnít a production car. It was, in the words of the company, a 2011 Impreza WRX STI prototype. The car is basically the bastard child of two JDM-only models with some extra bespoke aero bits thrown in for slipperiness and high-speed stability.

The car starts with the suspension from the improved-for-2011 WRX STIóitís 5 mm lower than the 2010 model, with 1-mm-thicker front and rear anti-roll bars, higher-rate springs all around, stiffer rear-subframe bushings, and new front-suspension pillow-ball bushings. The engine is the Japanese-market STI spec.cís, a 2.0-liter turbocharged boxer-four thatís been given the larger turbo from the R205, another Japanese special-edition STI model. Itís now putting out a claimed 320 hp.

The R205 also donates six-piston front brakes and a front strut-tower brace; it features a flexible center portion that allows vertical motion but maintains lateral stiffness. Weight is saved through the use of an aluminum hood from the spec.c, unique aluminum front fenders, the spec.cís smaller battery, and the deletion of the radio as in the R205 and spec.c.

Extra aero parts specific to this car include a full undertray, a front-lip extension tacked onto the R205ís lower spoiler, and a Gurney flap addedótaped, reallyóto the rear at Mškinenís request. (The car was getting a bit out of shape without it in the high-speed sections.) A full roll cage and race buckets fitted with a five-point harness for the driver and a four-point for the passenger make things safe.
So it was a racecar. This just proves that GM did wonders with the ZL1.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:28 PM   #54
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I wouldn't say these two are directly comparable... not stock anyway's, the STI is a great car. I am not sure where the guy above me got 51k but in America a WRX STI cost like 34k before any options. Great price, great car.

I do seem to noticed a difference between drivers I think somebody touched on that subject though

Thatís the problem with living in Canada; we get screwed on the price of vehicles.

If you go to the GM Canada web site and build a ZL1, the price without the taxes or options is over $60K, and because I live in Ontario you have to add on 13% sales tax to the cost of the vehicle. 13% of 60K is $7800.00.

Go to the GM Canada web site and build your ZL1 with the options you have on it. The price that comes out does not have the taxes added to it. Also they throw in a bunch of fees on top of that price, which are about $600.00.

Also since I am Canadian I cannot purchase a vehicle from the U.S. that is new. Only used vehicles are allowed for purchase, which means I would have to buy a ZL1 with someone else mileage on the car instead of my own.

This is not meant to start an argument; this is the reality of vehicle prices and rules in Canada.

Here is the real kicker of it all.
I live in the same province as these vehicles are produced.
There is only one Chevy dealership in the city I live in with a population of over a 100,000 people.
GM will only give the local dealership one allocation at a time, in order to get another one they have to actually have the papers signed saying the owner has bought the car.
And last but not least when you put your order in you are looking at anywhere from 6 months to a year to get the car.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:13 PM   #55
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I don't agree with you and neither does most track reviews. I f you need I can point you to track times real quick...
Go ahead. Show me that the SS isn't quicker in the quarter and that the STI doesn't handle better. Stock vs stock. I've owned both...have you?
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:51 PM   #56
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ZL1. Best American car built in 60 years. Period. Since when does a Subaru even compare to a ZL1? Any Camaro for that matter? Uh, let's see, how many ZL1 owners even thought of buying any Subaru? ZIP. Why it's here is the exact reason this site has lost so much credibility. Most people I ask anymore say they don't bother. Example why? Hmmm
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:02 PM   #57
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http://fastestlaps.com/cars/subaru_i...x_sti_25l.html

http://fastestlaps.com/cars/chevrole...o_ss_2010.html

4 out of 5 tracks where both cars have been tested, the STI is behind. These are no dirt track.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:04 PM   #58
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So it was a racecar. This just proves that GM did wonders with the ZL1.
I wouldn't say it's a race car. Almost all of the cars run roll cages and harnesses for safety. This seems to be some type of prototype for a new special edition subaru. They have had some wild special models in the past which is why I was surprised they didn't run one of those, but it seems they did (sort of). Maybe this is a toned down replacement for the Spec-C RA-R.

http://www.supercars.net/cars/3628.html

Interestingly enough, if this translates to a production car it will be the fasest 'ring time for any production sedan ever, faster than the CTS-V and Porsche Panamera.

None the less, this shows how much power matters on tracks with big sweepers and long straights like the 'ring.

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Originally Posted by Mikamaro View Post
http://fastestlaps.com/cars/subaru_i...x_sti_25l.html

http://fastestlaps.com/cars/chevrole...o_ss_2010.html

4 out of 5 tracks where both cars have been tested, the STI is behind. These are no dirt track.
2007 is the old chassis, the current car is completely different other than the engine and transmission. The SS will still probably beat the current sti around many tracks, but that can be attributed to power. He didn't say the sti is faster around any track, he said it handles better. In the handling department an SS doesn't compare. The subaru is lighter, has all wheel drive, is very stiff and has an extremely low center of gravity because of that boxer.

Last edited by trademaster; 02-22-2013 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:16 PM   #59
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Good video comparison. Amazing how close the sti stays until the longer straights where the ZL1 pulls away... like it should.

The STI is $15,000 cheaper than a ZL1 and obviously outgunned. And the motor in the STI won't blow up any time soon. Subaru's are extremely well engineered cars and their boxers are bullett proof. They have a very strong racing pedigree and it shows.

Yes, most people would take a ZL1 over an STI, it's $15,000 more car. But the guys driving STIs are in the Camaro SS price range. The STI is a much better all around performer than an SS without the 1LE package.

Been a Camaro guy my whole life but I can't help but respect the Subarus. They are mean little buggars.
Do any of you guys here know of the tons and tons of ringland issues the subis are having. Even the one I drove 2 weeks ago had that issue with 35 miles on the clock and the check engine light on during test drive, the salesman said ," hey there is warranty what are you worrying about".
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:17 PM   #60
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Notice how smooth the turning is in the ZL1 and how much the STi driver is fighting the steering wheel. The Camaro looks so easy to control. The STi looks like it's rally racing on a paved road.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:19 PM   #61
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Mikamaro..Lol...I get it. Various dates various laps differents chassis spreadsheet...bla bla. Have you driven both back to back? I have.
My FRC handled almost dance like...gracefully ya know. The STI did just as well but the thing wanted a more butcher like meat fisted touch. My camaro doesn't do what either did...but it kicks their tails in a straight line. Lolz
ZL1 ftw, agreed. This other side bar...not so much.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:31 PM   #62
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Not to crush you ZL-1 lovers but 3000lb cars don't need as much power as ZL-1s to shine. Compare another close to 3000lb car that did way better on the ring than the STI was a production model and had 220hp less or so that the ZL-1. E46 M3 CSL.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:40 PM   #63
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Not to crush you ZL-1 lovers but 3000lb cars don't need as much power as ZL-1s to shine. Compare another close to 3000lb car that did way better on the ring than the STI was a production model and had 220hp less or so that the ZL-1. E46 M3 CSL.
The CSL was one bad ass car. It's too bad it never came to the US. Still a bit slower than the ZL1 around the ring, but yes with way less power. The E92 GTS is really cool too. I have been meaning to build a turbo e46 m3 for a while now.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:52 PM   #64
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Not to crush you ZL-1 lovers but 3000lb cars don't need as much power as ZL-1s to shine. Compare another close to 3000lb car that did way better on the ring than the STI was a production model and had 220hp less or so that the ZL-1. E46 M3 CSL.
Power is just part of the story. A lot of people forget that.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:13 PM   #65
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I always enjoy these. I had to load Forza Motorsport 4 into my XBOX to try it for myself. Its amazing how close XBOX tracks to this video. Unfortuantly my best time was 14:07.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:07 PM   #66
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Mikamaro..Lol...I get it. Various dates various laps differents chassis spreadsheet...bla bla. Have you driven both back to back? I have.
My FRC handled almost dance like...gracefully ya know. The STI did just as well but the thing wanted a more butcher like meat fisted touch. My camaro doesn't do what either did...but it kicks their tails in a straight line. Lolz
ZL1 ftw, agreed. This other side bar...not so much.
No, not back to back same day. I had a 2009 WRX before the SS.

My disagreement with your comment that the STI is a better handler stands mostly on my personal experiences on track with fellow club members driving them. Here is what I have to say:

No stock STI of any year has a faster time at any lapping events I've been too, including a very short track without a long strait (60sec a lap) in dry conditions.

I can stick the SS at the same speed and place of the STI in tight, mild and fast corner except hairpins.
I will conceed that It is harder to drive the SS and keep it steady mid corner but the SS is faster out, faster in strait line and has a better braking power with equal mid corner speed.

Outside the track, my WRX shinned and was better all around then my SS in almost every other conditions, wet, snow, gravel, dirt roads and back roads, no contest there.
That will be all.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:42 PM   #67
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I personally have owned two subarus... a 2005 WRX STi (500whp) and a 2011 WRX (330whp)...

I actually traded in my 05 STi to get the camaro. I do think this video is a little silly as they are comparing a $36,000 car vs the ZL1 at around $55,000. But still the camaro is no slouch, even the SS version.

The biggest thing about the STi's are that they make them so tight and stiff you really feel like you are going faster then you really are. And it involves a lot more attention when racing them because of how tight everything is. The camaro does require more effort at times due to the wait though. I wish i coulda raced my 05 STi against my Camaro now. Woulda been a good race.

But The STi's and WRX's are know to have issues with their engines. they even state in the warranty that they allow one engine replacement within 3 years or 36 months. It is very common for their rings to fail.

I beat the crap out of every car i drive. Shoot, thats what they are for... and out of all the cars i have owned, The camaro takes it better than anything i have had in the past. And thats a total of 20 cars.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:05 AM   #68
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Go ahead. Show me that the SS isn't quicker in the quarter and that the STI doesn't handle better. Stock vs stock. I've owned both...have you?
The standard Camaro SS while it isn't slow isn't exactly a handling power house. I did read some reviews of the STI which gives it a 1/4mile of about 13.4 seconds (car and driver at least). Though honestly that puts the two cars pretty neck and neck bone stock and I would give the nod to the STI as I would think it would be more consistent.

Comparing the Subaru STI to the Camaro SS I would have to come to the conclusion that the STI is simply the better performance car. Though at the same time I feel that the Camaro SS and STI both have different goals and were made for different reasons. After all the Camaro SS has a ring lap time of 8:19.-- which isn't that good. The Subaru in question in this video as per Car and Driver was a prototype car that was producing some 320BHP while being lower and having stiffer suspension tuning. I personally think that a production STI (US version) is around a 8:00 minute car (give or take 5 seocnds). That would put it at 14-24 seconds faster then the standard SS Camaro, however I think that the 1LE would beat the STI.

The counter point is that Car and Driver tested the 2011 (I believe it was a 2011) STI at VIR and ran a 3:13.8 seconds while with a Camaro SS 3:09.5. 3:01.5 seconds for the 1LE Camaro and 2:57.5 for the ZL1 Camaro.....
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:07 AM   #69
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I personally have owned two subarus... a 2005 WRX STi (500whp) and a 2011 WRX (330whp)...

I actually traded in my 05 STi to get the camaro. I do think this video is a little silly as they are comparing a $36,000 car vs the ZL1 at around $55,000. But still the camaro is no slouch, even the SS version.

The biggest thing about the STi's are that they make them so tight and stiff you really feel like you are going faster then you really are. And it involves a lot more attention when racing them because of how tight everything is. The camaro does require more effort at times due to the wait though. I wish i coulda raced my 05 STi against my Camaro now. Woulda been a good race.

But The STi's and WRX's are know to have issues with their engines. they even state in the warranty that they allow one engine replacement within 3 years or 36 months. It is very common for their rings to fail.

I beat the crap out of every car i drive. Shoot, thats what they are for... and out of all the cars i have owned, The camaro takes it better than anything i have had in the past. And thats a total of 20 cars.
I was going to make a comment that the STI might feel faster then it really is, however I have no personal experience with them at all.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:38 AM   #70
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I was going to make a comment that the STI might feel faster then it really is, however I have no personal experience with them at all.
Yea...that wing makes you feel like you're doing 100 all the time.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:28 AM   #71
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I was going to make a comment that the STI might feel faster then it really is, however I have no personal experience with them at all.
yup, you have the right idea. A lot lighter car, very stiff suspension, very little sound dampening material. All really contributes to it.





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Yea...that wing makes you feel like you're doing 100 all the time.
First thing I did with my STi was take that horrible thing off.

sent from my galaxy s3. that would explain the errors.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:49 AM   #72
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The newer STi's are known for blowing up the 2.5 motors. I think the older one's not so much.
True, but not when the motor is stock or lightly modded (stage 2). They are more likely to have issues than the older ones with extremely high boost, like 20+ psi.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:45 AM   #73
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ZL1. Best American car built in 60 years. Period. Since when does a Subaru even compare to a ZL1? Any Camaro for that matter? Uh, let's see, how many ZL1 owners even thought of buying any Subaru? ZIP. Why it's here is the exact reason this site has lost so much credibility. Most people I ask anymore say they don't bother. Example why? Hmmm
Are you 16 years old? Maybe another possible explanation behind the "lack of credibility" is the sheep hearding that's taken place with people like yourself.

Yes the ZL1 is a nice car, does an exceptional job handling it's weight and mass around a road course, and is evidently easier to drive than a car that has never staked any claim to being easy to drive, but heaven forbid anyone attempt to compare it to something as lowly as a prototype Subaru.

It's apparent you find it insulting that anyone would mention the two together. Guess what, after your done stroking your ego, you're welcome to return to the automtive enthusiasts reality where any car, given the chance, can be appreciated.

Best car in the last 60 years, period.... Give me a break.
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:49 AM   #74
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Are you 16 years old? Maybe another possible explanation behind the "lack of credibility" is the sheep hearding that's taken place with people like yourself.

Yes the ZL1 is a nice car, does an exceptional job handling it's weight and mass around a road course, and is evidently easier to drive than a car that has never staked any claim to being easy to drive, but heaven forbid anyone attempt to compare it to something as lowly as a prototype Subaru.

It's apparent you find it insulting that anyone would mention the two together. Guess what, after your done stroking your ego, you're welcome to return to the automtive enthusiasts reality where any car, given the chance, can be appreciated.

Best car in the last 60 years, period.... Give me a break.
gotta agree...
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:16 PM   #75
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So anyone else notice the Subaru nailing a squirrel or something at the 6:45 lap time mark?
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