Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Cold Air Inductions
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-16-2013, 11:14 AM   #86
CGT
 
Drives: 2011 SSm6
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: St.Louis
Posts: 271
High volume dealer, over 200 cars sold a month. I've seen plenty of DOD lifters on 5.3's with bad maintenance done to them, a few oil pumps on DOD silverado's. Have worked in a GM dealership all through the advent of ls stuff. Never saw an oil pump failure on a c5, c6 vette or 4th or 5th gen f bodie's. Not saying it doesnt happen, just seems like a phenomen when people gather in an internet forum all having the same problem. The internet can have a tendency to sensationalize these kind of deals. Haven't seen a chain tensioner fail either, but there could be alot broken out there that never get seen, not like anything is bound to happen if the tensioner is broken, they can be run without one.
CGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 01:07 PM   #87
litle88
V8 Lounge member #2
 
litle88's Avatar
 
Drives: 2001 Ws6
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Burbank,IL
Posts: 6,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr pogo View Post
is that the relief valve at the 3:30 position??
have not worked on a LS engine yet, all the previous gen small blocks had the relief valve in the oil filter housing.
It does look stuck open doesn't it?
__________________
2001 ws6, 40k miles, Ls3 416 stroker, short block built by PER the rest by me. LPE Ls3 heads milled to 12-1 comp, FAST 102, NW 102, kooks 2", dual DMH cutouts, Magnaflow C/B, BTR cam + springs. Full UMI suspension.
litle88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 02:31 PM   #88
GEEKFREEKSCOTTY
Autoboticus Roboticus
 
GEEKFREEKSCOTTY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS/RS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Kent, WA
Posts: 1,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by litle88 View Post
Lol really? It must not get many Camaro's then, cause they have been failing since 1998! Just search here on this forum or on Ls1 tech, corvette forums, Ls1/2 GTO, yellow bullet take a pick your bound to see many. You'll also see DOD lifter failures and chain tensioner failures.
Yet, another reason for me going with an LS3 conversion in the future.
__________________
GEEKFREEKSCOTTY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 02:50 PM   #89
POS Dakota
 
POS Dakota's Avatar
 
Drives: GMs and Chryslers
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Detroit
Posts: 367
If my oil pump ever does this, I'm gonna try the gas cap trick.
It usually works pretty good.
POS Dakota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:07 PM   #90
Mr pogo
 
Drives: 96 Imp SS, 13 Camaro 2SS AGM
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by litle88 View Post
It does look stuck open doesn't it?
yes, if thats it and its stuck open I would guess debris or the bore has step worn into it.
Mr pogo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:09 PM   #91
POS Dakota
 
POS Dakota's Avatar
 
Drives: GMs and Chryslers
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Detroit
Posts: 367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr pogo View Post
yes, if thats it and its stuck open I would guess debris or the bore has step worn into it.
It's almost always debris of some sort that wont let the piston return.
POS Dakota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:47 PM   #92
litle88
V8 Lounge member #2
 
litle88's Avatar
 
Drives: 2001 Ws6
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Burbank,IL
Posts: 6,337
Debri or because of the 2 different materials and the heat will cause it to seize.
__________________
2001 ws6, 40k miles, Ls3 416 stroker, short block built by PER the rest by me. LPE Ls3 heads milled to 12-1 comp, FAST 102, NW 102, kooks 2", dual DMH cutouts, Magnaflow C/B, BTR cam + springs. Full UMI suspension.
litle88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 03:48 PM   #93
litle88
V8 Lounge member #2
 
litle88's Avatar
 
Drives: 2001 Ws6
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Burbank,IL
Posts: 6,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEEKFREEKSCOTTY View Post
Yet, another reason for me going with an LS3 conversion in the future.
Just upgrade to a melling 10296 while your in there and you'll be fine.
__________________
2001 ws6, 40k miles, Ls3 416 stroker, short block built by PER the rest by me. LPE Ls3 heads milled to 12-1 comp, FAST 102, NW 102, kooks 2", dual DMH cutouts, Magnaflow C/B, BTR cam + springs. Full UMI suspension.
litle88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 04:26 PM   #94
CFD



 
Drives: 2SS/RS L99 BLACK
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dedham
Posts: 5,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by litle88 View Post
It does look stuck open doesn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr pogo View Post
yes, if thats it and its stuck open I would guess debris or the bore has step worn into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by POS Dakota View Post
It's almost always debris of some sort that wont let the piston return.

I pulled the pump today, the valve is definately stuck. In the pics above the area mentioned is the relief valve but you cannot see that it's stuck in the photo's. The openning that is visable is not the relief port.

There isn't any debris in the bore. I had to persuade the valve to come out, then cleaned the bor and checked for any burr's etc and found none. Putting the valve back after the cleaning did nothing to free it as it was stuck in the bore upon re-installing it. I examed the valve and the bore carefully and what I found was the bore had scuffing right about where the top of the valve sits . The scuffing looks typical of other aluminum bores after useage. I am thinking that the valve's constant movement eventually scuffs the bore, as the scuffing increases the valve eventually sticks.

I am going to clean it all up and see if I can get a couple of pictures of it.
CFD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2013, 05:54 PM   #95
CFD



 
Drives: 2SS/RS L99 BLACK
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dedham
Posts: 5,396
Now with the pump disassembled you can see it's a pile of crap. The valve and bore have a good amount of scuffing, some severe. this causing the valve to stick. The face of the gears and pump cover as pictured yesterday do not have excessive wear, however, the thrust side against the aluminum pump body is another story, there is significant wear and scuffing on both the gears and especially the pump housing. The rotors have a good amount of wear as well. The wear in the pump is obvious but would not cause a loss of pressure, yet, but the stuck valve is definately the culprit. I do change my oil and filter regularily so I am thinking this is typical as mileage increases.
Attached Images
       
CFD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 05:53 AM   #96
POS Dakota
 
POS Dakota's Avatar
 
Drives: GMs and Chryslers
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Detroit
Posts: 367
Thanks for the pic, and you're right!
POS Dakota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 10:41 AM   #97
LeanPocket
 
Drives: 2010 2SS
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Corpus Christi TX
Posts: 634
This is very interesting.

I have 120,xxx miles on my L99.. so Now im abit worried. I was considering reusing my oil pump for my cam swap.. but now it has me somewhat paranoid.
__________________
LeanPocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 10:43 AM   #98
LeanPocket
 
Drives: 2010 2SS
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Corpus Christi TX
Posts: 634
I guess for comparison purposes, what weight and brand oil were you using?
__________________
LeanPocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 11:39 AM   #99
2SSCAMARO

 
2SSCAMARO's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro Auto
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Fl
Posts: 975
I believe if all the facts were known, modded vehicles are more than likely experiencing failure rates at a much higher level than stock vehicles, that's why the dealers see less failures than the forums see. Also there are practices that could contribute to the seized relief valves such as: Deciding to use 10W40, 20W50 oils, aftermarket oil filters that either increase or reduce the system oil pressure vs the PF48. Driving habits such as a lot of short runs that do not allow the oil temp to get up to and maintain 225* long enough to cook off and remove contaminates from the oil. The frequency of oil changes. Incorrectly altering and effectively reducing the PVC system's ability to remove contaminates from the oil. Jacked tunes that are excessively rich and improper fan settings. Not allowing for proper warm up of oil temp before doing spirited driving. I'm fairly confident that if GM's warranty history revealed a unacceptable monetary loss on the oil pumps, they could have melling spec pumps built for less than melling but even if there were an additional small cost, at GM's scale, it would be a rounding error in the cost of a Camaro.
2SSCAMARO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 01:29 PM   #100
litle88
V8 Lounge member #2
 
litle88's Avatar
 
Drives: 2001 Ws6
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Burbank,IL
Posts: 6,337
Just because you have a cam doesn't mean you have to go thru this or you don't have to use 20/50 or 10/40. The fact is the pumps are junk and are cost effective even to the bean counters at GM. They have been failing since 1997 and have not changed much except on the Ls7's (dry sump) this is my first L99 failure that I have seen and coincides with what the melling engineer said were the factory weaknesses. Melling 10296 pump is reengineered with different materials and are already blueprinted and will last you 200k miles plus according to the engineer.
__________________
2001 ws6, 40k miles, Ls3 416 stroker, short block built by PER the rest by me. LPE Ls3 heads milled to 12-1 comp, FAST 102, NW 102, kooks 2", dual DMH cutouts, Magnaflow C/B, BTR cam + springs. Full UMI suspension.
litle88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 02:12 PM   #101
LeanPocket
 
Drives: 2010 2SS
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Corpus Christi TX
Posts: 634
Am I just lucky that my l99 pump still functions correctly?
__________________
LeanPocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2013, 02:55 PM   #102
2SSCAMARO

 
2SSCAMARO's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Camaro Auto
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Fl
Posts: 975
I would say forum sponsors like BeckyD at Rodgers Chevrolet who should have access to failure stats (at minimum from her dealership) could shed some light as to whether or not you are lucky. Also there are several top shops that are forum sponsors who could share their "first hand" experience of stock pump failures. They could state their opinions on whether or not the pump failures were solely because of, as little88 claims are "junk" or whether there were extenuating circumstances such as improper reinstallation, inadequate preventative maintenance, abuse etc. I, for one, would be interested in seeing a few posts from the above mentioned members regarding their opinions. It is only fair to disclose my 2010 L99, built in July of 2009, is heavily modded, blown, cammed, and LS3 converted. It still uses the original L99 oil pump. PSI at startup is 65, fully warmed up at cruise is 45, idle @650-700 never less than 30, WOT 65. Therefore at this point, I am not convinced the pumps are junk.
2SSCAMARO is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.