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Old 03-03-2013, 10:07 PM   #1
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1SS+1LE+Supercharger = Affordable ZL1 (1LE/Z)

I have heard over and over how you can't build a ZL1 for much less than a real ZL1. Well you can't really, but you you can build an SS that is just as much or more fun for much less.

If you start with a 1SS 1LE you can build a car faster than a ZL1 for:

$36,930 + $6,000 = $42,930

I got that price which includes NPP and no other options from a build tonight on the Chevy site which includes $1,000 off. To add to that since the GM card is now topping off card benefits at $2,000, with a little savvy negotiation, You might be able to get that price down to $40,000.

I am allowing $6,000 for adding a supercharger, installed, and tuned. I have seen this price recently from a local speed shop. Make mine a centrifugal charger which helps avoid heat soak and is easy on the drivetrain. It also adds 75 pounds of fat which I would partially make up for by adding long tubes.

If you keep your rwhp around 500-550 the LS3 can easily handle that so reliability should not be a problem. (Or so I am told.)

Really, the basic 1SS has everything you need in a car and this 1LE-Z will easily run 11 seconds in the quarter mile and run with the big dogs on any road track.

When you are having this much fun, who needs a warranty?
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:39 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
I have heard over and over how you can't build a ZL1 for much less than a real ZL1. Well you can't really, but you you can build an SS that is just as much or more fun for much less.

If you start with a 1SS 1LE you can build a car faster than a ZL1 for:

$36,930 + $6,000 = $42,930

I got that price which includes NPP and no other options from a build tonight on the Chevy site which includes $1,000 off. To add to that since the GM card is now topping off card benefits at $2,000, with a little savvy negotiation, You might be able to get that price down to $40,000.

I am allowing $6,000 for adding a supercharger, installed, and tuned. I have seen this price recently from a local speed shop. Make mine a centrifugal charger which helps avoid heat soak and is easy on the drivetrain. It also adds 75 pounds of fat which I would partially make up for by adding long tubes.

If you keep your rwhp around 500-550 the LS3 can easily handle that so reliability should not be a problem. (Or so I am told.)

Really, the basic 1SS has everything you need in a car and this 1LE-Z will easily run 11 seconds in the quarter mile and run with the big dogs on any road track.

When you are having this much fun, who needs a warranty?
I agree and have a similar concept with a couple exceptions.

First, for the price your referring to, you should be able to get a 2SS/RS 1LE with NPP. I paid $37,538 (plus ttl) because I had the GM Card topoff you mentioned ($42,780 MSRP with all above equipment plus cargo net, purchased at invoice: $41,538 - $500 rebate - $500 autoshow rebate - $1000 special offer - $2000 GM card top-off = $37,538). Sure it's unnecessary equipment but adds to my enjoyment of the car.

However, I think the GM Card topoff ended on 28 Feb; at least mine did. I had to pay for my car early to take advantage of those special offers.

As far as the concept goes, I'm planning on a H/C approach rather than F/I. The primary reason is to not add extra weight (and in fact remove weight) to the front of the car. Quite a few examples on the forum of very drivable cams producing approximately 500rwhp with complimentary bolt-on mods.

I'm figuring close to your $6000 budget to get my 1LE to the same hp/tq level you'll see from an SC.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:51 AM   #3
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I agree and have a similar concept with a couple exceptions.

First, for the price your referring to, you should be able to get a 2SS/RS 1LE with NPP. I paid $37,538 (plus ttl) because I had the GM Card topoff you mentioned ($42,780 MSRP with all above equipment plus cargo net, purchased at invoice: $41,538 - $500 rebate - $500 autoshow rebate - $1000 special offer - $2000 GM card top-off = $37,538). Sure it's unnecessary equipment but adds to my enjoyment of the car.

However, I think the GM Card topoff ended on 28 Feb; at least mine did. I had to pay for my car early to take advantage of those special offers.

As far as the concept goes, I'm planning on a H/C approach rather than F/I. The primary reason is to not add extra weight (and in fact remove weight) to the front of the car. Quite a few examples on the forum of very drivable cams producing approximately 500rwhp with complimentary bolt-on mods.

I'm figuring close to your $6000 budget to get my 1LE to the same hp/tq level you'll see from an SC.
You lucky dog! You probably got the best deal on ordering a new SS ever. Using your numbers, you could buy my complete stripper 1LE/Z for $40,000.

I hear you about the options. They are nice but add a little weight. I have a 2SS with the sunroof which I enjoy. But it is drag with a helmet. The rest of the 2SS gingerbread and the really outrageous price for the RS treatment have turned me off to the expense for what you get. I do like a good sounding audio system, but you can do better than the BA system for less. I also prefer cloth over the slippier vinyl/leather 2SS seats. I will say my wife would miss the seat heaters. But that is no too hard to add.

I might add Nav to my 1LE/Z, at least that is not as expensive as in many other cars.

You are right about the card top off. So to get the really great price on the 1LE/Z we will have to wait until Jan/Feb 2014 when the next round of GM offers come in.

One other thing, on my dream 1LE/Z I chose the centrifugal FI option because a 500 RWHP stock displacement non FI LS3 loses some driveability. Also I have read too many horror stories about Head/Cam projects gone bad, so a mild FI application seems safest to me. I read over and over 500-550 RWHP FI is very reliable, fewer horror stories there. I am however very gullible when it comes to more power.

Are you planning on a build thread? I will be following. My next Camaro can be early next year according to my CFO. Only dreaming for now.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:10 AM   #4
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Sounds like a fun car.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:40 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
I have heard over and over how you can't build a ZL1 for much less than a real ZL1. Well you can't really, but you you can build an SS that is just as much or more fun for much less.

If you start with a 1SS 1LE you can build a car faster than a ZL1 for:

$36,930 + $6,000 = $42,930

I got that price which includes NPP and no other options from a build tonight on the Chevy site which includes $1,000 off. To add to that since the GM card is now topping off card benefits at $2,000, with a little savvy negotiation, You might be able to get that price down to $40,000.

I am allowing $6,000 for adding a supercharger, installed, and tuned. I have seen this price recently from a local speed shop. Make mine a centrifugal charger which helps avoid heat soak and is easy on the drivetrain. It also adds 75 pounds of fat which I would partially make up for by adding long tubes.

If you keep your rwhp around 500-550 the LS3 can easily handle that so reliability should not be a problem. (Or so I am told.)

Really, the basic 1SS has everything you need in a car and this 1LE-Z will easily run 11 seconds in the quarter mile and run with the big dogs on any road track.

When you are having this much fun, who needs a warranty?
yeah dang it, currently it's only 1,000 off incentive with the GM CC, when i saw where you put 2,000 i got all excited.. still another 1,000 off is good with a GM CC. That couple with 1,000 rebate special going on and i get another 1,000 off through my company. I'm looking at 3k off MSRP, need to find out if there some more incentives out there to save me money. Should i wait? I really want 1SS 1LE w/ NPP for 32-33g's before tax.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:45 PM   #6
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My 1LE (2SS; RS; NPP; premium audio) add the chiller kit; drop springs; tint; full TVS build with all supporting mods; parts and labor and tuning; all other small cosmetic mods etc....my build is easy 2-3K less than than a BASE ZL1....200lbs lighter and has 75-80 more WHP on a fairly conservative tune.

By conservative I mean:
-boost is 10lbs but sometimes 11 and touches 12lbs in cold weather
-AF is lean...pretty much 10 until high RPMs
-we lowered stock redline to 6400 bc of boost levels

*disclaimer...I'm getting retuned in a couple few weeks to improve AF (11.6ish)and possibly lower boost and still maybe get more performance/better #s

At the end of the day...I WANTED the ZL1 bad but IMO I'm way better off for the money (minus the warranty going bye bye)
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:46 PM   #7
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I really want 1SS 1LE w/ NPP for 32-33g's before tax.
If you ever get anything close to this let me know. I am hunting around for deals now.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:58 PM   #8
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To get a good supercharger and then installed and tuned by a reputable shop is more than 6k.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:05 PM   #9
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
I have heard over and over how you can't build a ZL1 for much less than a real ZL1. Well you can't really, but you you can build an SS that is just as much or more fun for much less.

If you start with a 1SS 1LE you can build a car faster than a ZL1 for:

$36,930 + $6,000 = $42,930

I got that price which includes NPP and no other options from a build tonight on the Chevy site which includes $1,000 off. To add to that since the GM card is now topping off card benefits at $2,000, with a little savvy negotiation, You might be able to get that price down to $40,000.

I am allowing $6,000 for adding a supercharger, installed, and tuned. I have seen this price recently from a local speed shop. Make mine a centrifugal charger which helps avoid heat soak and is easy on the drivetrain. It also adds 75 pounds of fat which I would partially make up for by adding long tubes.

If you keep your rwhp around 500-550 the LS3 can easily handle that so reliability should not be a problem. (Or so I am told.)

Really, the basic 1SS has everything you need in a car and this 1LE-Z will easily run 11 seconds in the quarter mile and run with the big dogs on any road track.

When you are having this much fun, who needs a warranty?

It boils down to a few things. I take nothing away from the 1LE. It is amazing in its own right. I can say that because I owned one and traded up for the ZL1. But no matter what you do to it, it's still not a ZL1 and that's just reality. Feels nothing like one, handles nothing like one. The SS to the SS 1LE was a night/day difference. From the SS 1LE to the ZL1 it was a night/day difference. After driving one the choice was crystal clear. I did some soul searching before I traded my 1LE in, meeting up with SUKXOST. Truly an amazing ride. He made the decision tough!

You have to keep in mind when calculating figures not everyone is able to achieve the lowest possible figures. Some are paying MSRP which could be $44-45k for there respective 1LE. So add the $6-7k for supercharger/tune. Your right there at $51-51k which is a '12 ZL1. It just all depends really on the person, his or her wants. Do they want the 1SS or 2SS, etc. I got my 2SS/RS 1LE (NPP, Sunroof, Prem mats, Nav) for $41k which was MSRP at for $45,270. I did research and still to supercharge it would have been $6-8k considering I would upgrade the headers and other things. There we go back to the $50k range. Realizing that a ZL1 just seemed logical. GM certified too, I had to pull the trigger.

I'm the guy who feels comfortable with a warranty atleast for the 3-5 years. It keeps me warm at night if I say so myself. Sure I could have put a S/C on it but the cons outweighed the pros in my current situation so I went ahead and traded it in. I have no regrets what so ever, other then I wished mine had that whine like SUKXOST has in his, haha.

If you have the extra money to create a blanket in case the unforeseen happens then sure go for it. But between deployments, SDAs I'd rather not deal with it. Just wasn't a logical decision for me. To add I do own a piece of history, which is truly a '69 reborn.

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Old 03-04-2013, 09:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
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To get a good supercharger and then installed and tuned by a reputable shop is more than 6k.
Yea, usually, but if you keep your eyes open you can find deals. This thread was $6,000 but it looks like the price was bumped to $6,500 for the last few.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=252551&page=2

Even AT $7,000 you are still under $44,000 total. An easy $10K under most ZL1s you can find.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUKXOST View Post
My 1LE (2SS; RS; NPP; premium audio) add the chiller kit; drop springs; tint; full TVS build with all supporting mods; parts and labor and tuning; all other small cosmetic mods etc....my build is easy 2-3K less than than a BASE ZL1....200lbs lighter and has 75-80 more WHP on a fairly conservative tune.

By conservative I mean:
-boost is 10lbs but sometimes 11 and touches 12lbs in cold weather
-AF is lean...pretty much 10 until high RPMs
-we lowered stock redline to 6400 bc of boost levels

*disclaimer...I'm getting retuned in a couple few weeks to improve AF (11.6ish)and possibly lower boost and still maybe get more performance/better #s

At the end of the day...I WANTED the ZL1 bad but IMO I'm way better off for the money (minus the warranty going bye bye)
I have noticed your awesome build. Once you get your car straightened out it will be killer. Liking the white too. Are you still 200 pounds under a ZL1 with that TVS?
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:01 PM   #13
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It boils down to a few things. I take nothing away from the 1LE. It is amazing in its own right. I can say that because I owned one and traded up for the ZL1. But no matter what you do to it, it's still not a ZL1 and that's just reality. Feels nothing like one, handles nothing like one. The SS to the SS 1LE was a night/day difference. From the SS 1LE to the ZL1 it was a night/day difference. After driving one the choice was crystal clear. I did some soul searching before I traded my 1LE in, meeting up with SUKXOST. Truly an amazing ride. He made the decision tough!

You have to keep in mind when calculating figures not everyone is able to achieve the lowest possible figures. Some are paying MSRP which could be $44-45k for there respective 1LE. So add the $6-7k for supercharger/tune. Your right there at $51-51k which is a '12 ZL1. It just all depends really on the person, his or her wants. Do they want the 1SS or 2SS, etc. I got my 2SS/RS 1LE (NPP, Sunroof, Prem mats, Nav) for $41k which was MSRP at for $45,270. I did research and still to supercharge it would have been $6-8k considering I would upgrade the headers and other things. There we go back to the $50k range. Realizing that a ZL1 just seemed logical. GM certified too, I had to pull the trigger.

I'm the guy who feels comfortable with a warranty atleast for the 3-5 years. It keeps me warm at night if I say so myself. Sure I could have put a S/C on it but the cons outweighed the pros in my current situation so I went ahead and traded it in. I have no regrets what so ever, other then I wished mine had that whine like SUKXOST has in his, haha.

If you have the extra money to create a blanket in case the unforeseen happens then sure go for it. But between deployments, SDAs I'd rather not deal with it. Just wasn't a logical decision for me. To add I do own a piece of history, which is truly a '69 reborn.
I am not knocking the ZL1, it's very cool. And of course no Mag ride for the 1LE. I did notice that Car and Driver said the ZL1 felt just like a 1LE with more power after spending time with both on a track, so the handling is comparable.

Also I agree with you. If you start with a loaded 2SS you get too close to the ZL1 price which is why I chose a 1SS, which to me is very well equipped.

But most of all respect for what you do. If that ZL1 makes you feel good its worth every penny. For me though, helping 2 of my kids through college I am looking for a bargain.

And I will say this, if I had the cash i would buy a ZL1 in a heartbeat. It really is the best of all worlds.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:36 AM   #14
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It's not just about the warranty. It's about the durability. GM tests their engines with engine dynos, and road testing, and must meet durability standards. The LS3 was never designed or tested for a supercharger, so you are on your own. It can get expensive blowing up engines. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Also the supercharger is going to add weight to the front of the car, and the suspension was not tuned for that weight. You are likely to get more understeer.

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Old 03-05-2013, 04:59 AM   #15
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I dont see how the FI could be safer on a NA designed engine. For me, heads and cam all day on a LS3 Rather than FI, but Im a NA guy lol
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:45 AM   #16
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I have noticed your awesome build. Once you get your car straightened out it will be killer. Liking the white too. Are you still 200 pounds under a ZL1 with that TVS?
I'm going to try and weight my car this week and I'll post in my build thread to find out myself.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:01 AM   #17
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I'm going to try and weight my car this week and I'll post in my build thread to find out myself.
Do you know your cars exact weight before blower install. I am tempted to add a blower as well but don't want to ruin my cornering balance I have now. My car is now way too neutral.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:12 AM   #18
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You lucky dog! You probably got the best deal on ordering a new SS ever. Using your numbers, you could buy my complete stripper 1LE/Z for $40,000.

I hear you about the options. They are nice but add a little weight. I have a 2SS with the sunroof which I enjoy. But it is drag with a helmet. The rest of the 2SS gingerbread and the really outrageous price for the RS treatment have turned me off to the expense for what you get. I do like a good sounding audio system, but you can do better than the BA system for less. I also prefer cloth over the slippier vinyl/leather 2SS seats. I will say my wife would miss the seat heaters. But that is no too hard to add.

I might add Nav to my 1LE/Z, at least that is not as expensive as in many other cars.

You are right about the card top off. So to get the really great price on the 1LE/Z we will have to wait until Jan/Feb 2014 when the next round of GM offers come in.

One other thing, on my dream 1LE/Z I chose the centrifugal FI option because a 500 RWHP stock displacement non FI LS3 loses some driveability. Also I have read too many horror stories about Head/Cam projects gone bad, so a mild FI application seems safest to me. I read over and over 500-550 RWHP FI is very reliable, fewer horror stories there. I am however very gullible when it comes to more power.

Are you planning on a build thread? I will be following. My next Camaro can be early next year according to my CFO. Only dreaming for now.
Thanks, but I don't think I am the luckiest when it comes to pricing. I just read a thread in the last week or so where someone got something like $7000 or so off with his GM Business Card. I guess the redemption rules must be different for the Business Card; I've never researched it but that is a NICE discount.

I think a H/C approach can be just as reliable as F/I if the proper approach is taken. I think a problem many have is they want the sound of a nice cam so they purchase on that factor alone without putting together a complete package. With a proper H/C setup, the heads, cam, intake, exhaust, gear ratio and desired performance envelope are all put together into a comprehensive package to work together. Granted, that is where F/I is easier--put an S/C on with a tune and the other factors aren't as big of a consideration as with a proper H/C package. In other words, an S/C will work well with an otherwise untouched or modified car. To work properly a H/C car will need the proper cam and head modifications to work with the rest of the car. I think that is where we see horror stories--put too aggressive of a cam into an otherwise stock L99 (and stock geared) car and you lose idle quality, bottom end torque (important on a 4000lb car); that car would be no fun to drive and most likely a disappointment.

I think the 1LE is an ideal platform to set up as a H/C car. The improved gearing is already there and the car is nicely balanced at its stock weight.

I will do a build thread but I'm still in the steep part of the learning curve. I have quite a bit of experience building well-performing classic cars in the manner I described above. I've left my new cars stock in the past and toyed with my older cars. Now I'm reversing that approach a bit as I now have an original 79 T/A I can't mess with without hurting its value, so I'm going to put my efforts into modifying the 1LE. While the concepts are the same, obviously there are differences that I have to become familiar with and learn. For that, I'll turn to the experts here on the forum; you're never too old to learn!
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:46 PM   #19
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It's not just about the warranty. It's about the durability. GM tests their engines with engine dynos, and road testing, and must meet durability standards. The LS3 was never designed or tested for a supercharger, so you are on your own. It can get expensive blowing up engines. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Also the supercharger is going to add weight to the front of the car, and the suspension was not tuned for that weight. You are likely to get more understeer.

Michael


Sure adding just a supercharger to a 1LE will make power like a ZL1. But you will upset the balance of the car.... so you fix that. At a minimum by adding new tires...$$$. (305 goodyears to match the front?) But to make the car more neutral with the added power a change of the sway bars is more likely going to be needed....$$$. So now the car is handling right and has the power or more than a ZL1. So you go to the track.... clutch dies.... no problem you added a ZR1 clutch.... $$$. Then you break the axles so you put in gforce or DSS 1400 HP axles.... more $$$. Then the rear breaks so you put a ZL1 rear or 9" .... major $$$. Transmission goes....$$$. All with no warranty. So you get the car running fast..... but the car's aero produces lift making the car scary at the higher speeds it now can run at so you added the complete ZL1 aero package to get downforce.... more $$$. Then are the brakes up to the task?.... CTSV/ZL1 front breaks..... more $$$.

Sure a 1LE with a supercharger on paper looks to be a better deal but one major failure and the savings are gone. If you drive the car hard it will be a matter of time. With a ZL1 you get stronger parts and a warranty for 5 years on and off the track. On a ZL1 add a cold air intake for under $400 and add 35 proven HP. So that 80 HP advantage becomes 45 HP and the ZL1 still has a warranty, mag ride, better aero and is fully loaded even as a base model. (To be fair you should compare a 2SS 1LE to a ZL1) Also when you decide to trade it in after a few years.... ZL1 will be worth a ton more than a modded 1LE. The 1LE will be worth what a stock 1LE is worth to a dealer... maybe more if you find private buyer who is willing to pay more.

The 1LE is a great option package but value to $$$ the ZL1 is a far better deal if you dive deeper than skidpad and HP numbers.

One more thing.... you can buy a ZL1 under MSRP. I did back in September and they are more common now. Just like the 1LE deals can be struck. So at MSRP ZL1 Vs under MSRP 1LE....
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:44 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by BlackinBlack View Post


Sure adding just a supercharger to a 1LE will make power like a ZL1. But you will upset the balance of the car.... so you fix that. At a minimum by adding new tires...$$$. (305 goodyears to match the front?) But to make the car more neutral with the added power a change of the sway bars is more likely going to be needed....$$$. So now the car is handling right and has the power or more than a ZL1. So you go to the track.... clutch dies.... no problem you added a ZR1 clutch.... $$$. Then you break the axles so you put in gforce or DSS 1400 HP axles.... more $$$. Then the rear breaks so you put a ZL1 rear or 9" .... major $$$. Transmission goes....$$$. All with no warranty. So you get the car running fast..... but the car's aero produces lift making the car scary at the higher speeds it now can run at so you added the complete ZL1 aero package to get downforce.... more $$$. Then are the brakes up to the task?.... CTSV/ZL1 front breaks..... more $$$.

Sure a 1LE with a supercharger on paper looks to be a better deal but one major failure and the savings are gone. If you drive the car hard it will be a matter of time. With a ZL1 you get stronger parts and a warranty for 5 years on and off the track. On a ZL1 add a cold air intake for under $400 and add 35 proven HP. So that 80 HP advantage becomes 45 HP and the ZL1 still has a warranty, mag ride, better aero and is fully loaded even as a base model. (To be fair you should compare a 2SS 1LE to a ZL1) Also when you decide to trade it in after a few years.... ZL1 will be worth a ton more than a modded 1LE. The 1LE will be worth what a stock 1LE is worth to a dealer... maybe more if you find private buyer who is willing to pay more.

The 1LE is a great option package but value to $$$ the ZL1 is a far better deal if you dive deeper than skidpad and HP numbers.

One more thing.... you can buy a ZL1 under MSRP. I did back in September and they are more common now. Just like the 1LE deals can be struck. So at MSRP ZL1 Vs under MSRP 1LE....
ain't that a punch in the face! You are correct though.

My thought is the 1LE is meant to be an alternative to the ZL1 by being NA. Not a can do "anything" ZL1 clone, but a master of one thing...tracking. It does need a little more power and then brakes to be perfect, but then it would be a Z**.
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Old 03-05-2013, 05:33 PM   #21
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Yea, usually, but if you keep your eyes open you can find deals. This thread was $6,000 but it looks like the price was bumped to $6,500 for the last few.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=252551&page=2
Even AT $7,000 you are still under $44,000 total. An easy $10K under most ZL1s you can find.
And don't forget your install fees.
Don't get me wrong, you could do it under for what a ZL1 will cost, but you won't have the ZL1 mag ride and other little items that make a ZL1 a ZL1.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BlackinBlack View Post


Sure adding just a supercharger to a 1LE will make power like a ZL1. But you will upset the balance of the car.... so you fix that. At a minimum by adding new tires...$$$. (305 goodyears to match the front?) But to make the car more neutral with the added power a change of the sway bars is more likely going to be needed....$$$. So now the car is handling right and has the power or more than a ZL1. So you go to the track.... clutch dies.... no problem you added a ZR1 clutch.... $$$. Then you break the axles so you put in gforce or DSS 1400 HP axles.... more $$$. Then the rear breaks so you put a ZL1 rear or 9" .... major $$$. Transmission goes....$$$. All with no warranty. So you get the car running fast..... but the car's aero produces lift making the car scary at the higher speeds it now can run at so you added the complete ZL1 aero package to get downforce.... more $$$. Then are the brakes up to the task?.... CTSV/ZL1 front breaks..... more $$$.

Sure a 1LE with a supercharger on paper looks to be a better deal but one major failure and the savings are gone. If you drive the car hard it will be a matter of time. With a ZL1 you get stronger parts and a warranty for 5 years on and off the track. On a ZL1 add a cold air intake for under $400 and add 35 proven HP. So that 80 HP advantage becomes 45 HP and the ZL1 still has a warranty, mag ride, better aero and is fully loaded even as a base model. (To be fair you should compare a 2SS 1LE to a ZL1) Also when you decide to trade it in after a few years.... ZL1 will be worth a ton more than a modded 1LE. The 1LE will be worth what a stock 1LE is worth to a dealer... maybe more if you find private buyer who is willing to pay more.

The 1LE is a great option package but value to $$$ the ZL1 is a far better deal if you dive deeper than skidpad and HP numbers.

One more thing.... you can buy a ZL1 under MSRP. I did back in September and they are more common now. Just like the 1LE deals can be struck. So at MSRP ZL1 Vs under MSRP 1LE....
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:28 PM   #23
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It's not just about the warranty. It's about the durability. GM tests their engines with engine dynos, and road testing, and must meet durability standards. The LS3 was never designed or tested for a supercharger, so you are on your own. It can get expensive blowing up engines. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Also the supercharger is going to add weight to the front of the car, and the suspension was not tuned for that weight. You are likely to get more understeer.

Michael
I agree with you about the testing, but there are many FI L99 and LS3s running around at over 500 RWHP for lots of miles with no problems. And 75 pounds (centrifugal) will not make the 1LE understeer noticeably any more than it already does. There are already several FI 1LEs owners here who have not mentioned any deterioration in handling. An extra 100+ rwhp makes any car feel much lighter.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:50 PM   #24
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Thanks, but I don't think I am the luckiest when it comes to pricing. I just read a thread in the last week or so where someone got something like $7000 or so off with his GM Business Card. I guess the redemption rules must be different for the Business Card; I've never researched it but that is a NICE discount.

I think a H/C approach can be just as reliable as F/I if the proper approach is taken. I think a problem many have is they want the sound of a nice cam so they purchase on that factor alone without putting together a complete package. With a proper H/C setup, the heads, cam, intake, exhaust, gear ratio and desired performance envelope are all put together into a comprehensive package to work together. Granted, that is where F/I is easier--put an S/C on with a tune and the other factors aren't as big of a consideration as with a proper H/C package. In other words, an S/C will work well with an otherwise untouched or modified car. To work properly a H/C car will need the proper cam and head modifications to work with the rest of the car. I think that is where we see horror stories--put too aggressive of a cam into an otherwise stock L99 (and stock geared) car and you lose idle quality, bottom end torque (important on a 4000lb car); that car would be no fun to drive and most likely a disappointment.

I think the 1LE is an ideal platform to set up as a H/C car. The improved gearing is already there and the car is nicely balanced at its stock weight.

I will do a build thread but I'm still in the steep part of the learning curve. I have quite a bit of experience building well-performing classic cars in the manner I described above. I've left my new cars stock in the past and toyed with my older cars. Now I'm reversing that approach a bit as I now have an original 79 T/A I can't mess with without hurting its value, so I'm going to put my efforts into modifying the 1LE. While the concepts are the same, obviously there are differences that I have to become familiar with and learn. For that, I'll turn to the experts here on the forum; you're never too old to learn!
The best part of modding a new car is none of the bolts are rusty! And i think you will enjoy how easy the Camaro is to work on. Lots of room in this big chassis.

And you are right about a well planned H/C combo. It can be reliable and fun. But most importantly the work needs to performed by someone who knows exactly what they are doing. You will be moving the power band up a bit with less low end torque. A centrifugal charger provides the biggest boost at the big end, but loses no low end torque.

One thing I have learned about modding a new is that you want to mostly add things you can take off and sell if you decide to change cars. I spent a good chunk of money upgrading my bushings that I wish I did not do now as i contemplate a 2014 1LE. Although I have enjoyed less wheelhop and rear stepout with this mod. The rest of my chassis mods will be showing up in the forum market.

Even though I will most likely get that 2014 1LE (if it still exists, there are 2014 changes) but I have my eye on the next gen Camaro, Mustang, and Barracuda.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:57 PM   #25
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I dont see how the FI could be safer on a NA designed engine. For me, heads and cam all day on a LS3 Rather than FI, but Im a NA guy lol
H/C combos are just as safe if well done. But there are a number of horror stories here from a botched cam install and/or a poor cam choice. This seems more common than mild FI projects gone bad. This could be just my perception. Plus I can remove my FI and sell it if i decide to get another car.
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