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Old 03-03-2013, 10:07 PM   #1
Fraxum


 
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1SS+1LE+Supercharger = Affordable ZL1 (1LE/Z)

I have heard over and over how you can't build a ZL1 for much less than a real ZL1. Well you can't really, but you you can build an SS that is just as much or more fun for much less.

If you start with a 1SS 1LE you can build a car faster than a ZL1 for:

$36,930 + $6,000 = $42,930

I got that price which includes NPP and no other options from a build tonight on the Chevy site which includes $1,000 off. To add to that since the GM card is now topping off card benefits at $2,000, with a little savvy negotiation, You might be able to get that price down to $40,000.

I am allowing $6,000 for adding a supercharger, installed, and tuned. I have seen this price recently from a local speed shop. Make mine a centrifugal charger which helps avoid heat soak and is easy on the drivetrain. It also adds 75 pounds of fat which I would partially make up for by adding long tubes.

If you keep your rwhp around 500-550 the LS3 can easily handle that so reliability should not be a problem. (Or so I am told.)

Really, the basic 1SS has everything you need in a car and this 1LE-Z will easily run 11 seconds in the quarter mile and run with the big dogs on any road track.

When you are having this much fun, who needs a warranty?
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:39 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
I have heard over and over how you can't build a ZL1 for much less than a real ZL1. Well you can't really, but you you can build an SS that is just as much or more fun for much less.

If you start with a 1SS 1LE you can build a car faster than a ZL1 for:

$36,930 + $6,000 = $42,930

I got that price which includes NPP and no other options from a build tonight on the Chevy site which includes $1,000 off. To add to that since the GM card is now topping off card benefits at $2,000, with a little savvy negotiation, You might be able to get that price down to $40,000.

I am allowing $6,000 for adding a supercharger, installed, and tuned. I have seen this price recently from a local speed shop. Make mine a centrifugal charger which helps avoid heat soak and is easy on the drivetrain. It also adds 75 pounds of fat which I would partially make up for by adding long tubes.

If you keep your rwhp around 500-550 the LS3 can easily handle that so reliability should not be a problem. (Or so I am told.)

Really, the basic 1SS has everything you need in a car and this 1LE-Z will easily run 11 seconds in the quarter mile and run with the big dogs on any road track.

When you are having this much fun, who needs a warranty?
I agree and have a similar concept with a couple exceptions.

First, for the price your referring to, you should be able to get a 2SS/RS 1LE with NPP. I paid $37,538 (plus ttl) because I had the GM Card topoff you mentioned ($42,780 MSRP with all above equipment plus cargo net, purchased at invoice: $41,538 - $500 rebate - $500 autoshow rebate - $1000 special offer - $2000 GM card top-off = $37,538). Sure it's unnecessary equipment but adds to my enjoyment of the car.

However, I think the GM Card topoff ended on 28 Feb; at least mine did. I had to pay for my car early to take advantage of those special offers.

As far as the concept goes, I'm planning on a H/C approach rather than F/I. The primary reason is to not add extra weight (and in fact remove weight) to the front of the car. Quite a few examples on the forum of very drivable cams producing approximately 500rwhp with complimentary bolt-on mods.

I'm figuring close to your $6000 budget to get my 1LE to the same hp/tq level you'll see from an SC.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:51 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by JJKJ View Post
I agree and have a similar concept with a couple exceptions.

First, for the price your referring to, you should be able to get a 2SS/RS 1LE with NPP. I paid $37,538 (plus ttl) because I had the GM Card topoff you mentioned ($42,780 MSRP with all above equipment plus cargo net, purchased at invoice: $41,538 - $500 rebate - $500 autoshow rebate - $1000 special offer - $2000 GM card top-off = $37,538). Sure it's unnecessary equipment but adds to my enjoyment of the car.

However, I think the GM Card topoff ended on 28 Feb; at least mine did. I had to pay for my car early to take advantage of those special offers.

As far as the concept goes, I'm planning on a H/C approach rather than F/I. The primary reason is to not add extra weight (and in fact remove weight) to the front of the car. Quite a few examples on the forum of very drivable cams producing approximately 500rwhp with complimentary bolt-on mods.

I'm figuring close to your $6000 budget to get my 1LE to the same hp/tq level you'll see from an SC.
You lucky dog! You probably got the best deal on ordering a new SS ever. Using your numbers, you could buy my complete stripper 1LE/Z for $40,000.

I hear you about the options. They are nice but add a little weight. I have a 2SS with the sunroof which I enjoy. But it is drag with a helmet. The rest of the 2SS gingerbread and the really outrageous price for the RS treatment have turned me off to the expense for what you get. I do like a good sounding audio system, but you can do better than the BA system for less. I also prefer cloth over the slippier vinyl/leather 2SS seats. I will say my wife would miss the seat heaters. But that is no too hard to add.

I might add Nav to my 1LE/Z, at least that is not as expensive as in many other cars.

You are right about the card top off. So to get the really great price on the 1LE/Z we will have to wait until Jan/Feb 2014 when the next round of GM offers come in.

One other thing, on my dream 1LE/Z I chose the centrifugal FI option because a 500 RWHP stock displacement non FI LS3 loses some driveability. Also I have read too many horror stories about Head/Cam projects gone bad, so a mild FI application seems safest to me. I read over and over 500-550 RWHP FI is very reliable, fewer horror stories there. I am however very gullible when it comes to more power.

Are you planning on a build thread? I will be following. My next Camaro can be early next year according to my CFO. Only dreaming for now.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:10 AM   #4
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Sounds like a fun car.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
I have heard over and over how you can't build a ZL1 for much less than a real ZL1. Well you can't really, but you you can build an SS that is just as much or more fun for much less.

If you start with a 1SS 1LE you can build a car faster than a ZL1 for:

$36,930 + $6,000 = $42,930

I got that price which includes NPP and no other options from a build tonight on the Chevy site which includes $1,000 off. To add to that since the GM card is now topping off card benefits at $2,000, with a little savvy negotiation, You might be able to get that price down to $40,000.

I am allowing $6,000 for adding a supercharger, installed, and tuned. I have seen this price recently from a local speed shop. Make mine a centrifugal charger which helps avoid heat soak and is easy on the drivetrain. It also adds 75 pounds of fat which I would partially make up for by adding long tubes.

If you keep your rwhp around 500-550 the LS3 can easily handle that so reliability should not be a problem. (Or so I am told.)

Really, the basic 1SS has everything you need in a car and this 1LE-Z will easily run 11 seconds in the quarter mile and run with the big dogs on any road track.

When you are having this much fun, who needs a warranty?
yeah dang it, currently it's only 1,000 off incentive with the GM CC, when i saw where you put 2,000 i got all excited.. still another 1,000 off is good with a GM CC. That couple with 1,000 rebate special going on and i get another 1,000 off through my company. I'm looking at 3k off MSRP, need to find out if there some more incentives out there to save me money. Should i wait? I really want 1SS 1LE w/ NPP for 32-33g's before tax.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:45 PM   #6
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My 1LE (2SS; RS; NPP; premium audio) add the chiller kit; drop springs; tint; full TVS build with all supporting mods; parts and labor and tuning; all other small cosmetic mods etc....my build is easy 2-3K less than than a BASE ZL1....200lbs lighter and has 75-80 more WHP on a fairly conservative tune.

By conservative I mean:
-boost is 10lbs but sometimes 11 and touches 12lbs in cold weather
-AF is lean...pretty much 10 until high RPMs
-we lowered stock redline to 6400 bc of boost levels

*disclaimer...I'm getting retuned in a couple few weeks to improve AF (11.6ish)and possibly lower boost and still maybe get more performance/better #s

At the end of the day...I WANTED the ZL1 bad but IMO I'm way better off for the money (minus the warranty going bye bye)
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by deuce189 View Post
I really want 1SS 1LE w/ NPP for 32-33g's before tax.
If you ever get anything close to this let me know. I am hunting around for deals now.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:58 PM   #8
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To get a good supercharger and then installed and tuned by a reputable shop is more than 6k.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:05 PM   #9
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1SS+1LE+Supercharger = 1LZ
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
I have heard over and over how you can't build a ZL1 for much less than a real ZL1. Well you can't really, but you you can build an SS that is just as much or more fun for much less.

If you start with a 1SS 1LE you can build a car faster than a ZL1 for:

$36,930 + $6,000 = $42,930

I got that price which includes NPP and no other options from a build tonight on the Chevy site which includes $1,000 off. To add to that since the GM card is now topping off card benefits at $2,000, with a little savvy negotiation, You might be able to get that price down to $40,000.

I am allowing $6,000 for adding a supercharger, installed, and tuned. I have seen this price recently from a local speed shop. Make mine a centrifugal charger which helps avoid heat soak and is easy on the drivetrain. It also adds 75 pounds of fat which I would partially make up for by adding long tubes.

If you keep your rwhp around 500-550 the LS3 can easily handle that so reliability should not be a problem. (Or so I am told.)

Really, the basic 1SS has everything you need in a car and this 1LE-Z will easily run 11 seconds in the quarter mile and run with the big dogs on any road track.

When you are having this much fun, who needs a warranty?

It boils down to a few things. I take nothing away from the 1LE. It is amazing in its own right. I can say that because I owned one and traded up for the ZL1. But no matter what you do to it, it's still not a ZL1 and that's just reality. Feels nothing like one, handles nothing like one. The SS to the SS 1LE was a night/day difference. From the SS 1LE to the ZL1 it was a night/day difference. After driving one the choice was crystal clear. I did some soul searching before I traded my 1LE in, meeting up with SUKXOST. Truly an amazing ride. He made the decision tough!

You have to keep in mind when calculating figures not everyone is able to achieve the lowest possible figures. Some are paying MSRP which could be $44-45k for there respective 1LE. So add the $6-7k for supercharger/tune. Your right there at $51-51k which is a '12 ZL1. It just all depends really on the person, his or her wants. Do they want the 1SS or 2SS, etc. I got my 2SS/RS 1LE (NPP, Sunroof, Prem mats, Nav) for $41k which was MSRP at for $45,270. I did research and still to supercharge it would have been $6-8k considering I would upgrade the headers and other things. There we go back to the $50k range. Realizing that a ZL1 just seemed logical. GM certified too, I had to pull the trigger.

I'm the guy who feels comfortable with a warranty atleast for the 3-5 years. It keeps me warm at night if I say so myself. Sure I could have put a S/C on it but the cons outweighed the pros in my current situation so I went ahead and traded it in. I have no regrets what so ever, other then I wished mine had that whine like SUKXOST has in his, haha.

If you have the extra money to create a blanket in case the unforeseen happens then sure go for it. But between deployments, SDAs I'd rather not deal with it. Just wasn't a logical decision for me. To add I do own a piece of history, which is truly a '69 reborn.

Last edited by FINALLYSATISFIED; 03-04-2013 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tones2SS View Post
To get a good supercharger and then installed and tuned by a reputable shop is more than 6k.
Yea, usually, but if you keep your eyes open you can find deals. This thread was $6,000 but it looks like the price was bumped to $6,500 for the last few.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=252551&page=2

Even AT $7,000 you are still under $44,000 total. An easy $10K under most ZL1s you can find.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUKXOST View Post
My 1LE (2SS; RS; NPP; premium audio) add the chiller kit; drop springs; tint; full TVS build with all supporting mods; parts and labor and tuning; all other small cosmetic mods etc....my build is easy 2-3K less than than a BASE ZL1....200lbs lighter and has 75-80 more WHP on a fairly conservative tune.

By conservative I mean:
-boost is 10lbs but sometimes 11 and touches 12lbs in cold weather
-AF is lean...pretty much 10 until high RPMs
-we lowered stock redline to 6400 bc of boost levels

*disclaimer...I'm getting retuned in a couple few weeks to improve AF (11.6ish)and possibly lower boost and still maybe get more performance/better #s

At the end of the day...I WANTED the ZL1 bad but IMO I'm way better off for the money (minus the warranty going bye bye)
I have noticed your awesome build. Once you get your car straightened out it will be killer. Liking the white too. Are you still 200 pounds under a ZL1 with that TVS?
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED View Post
It boils down to a few things. I take nothing away from the 1LE. It is amazing in its own right. I can say that because I owned one and traded up for the ZL1. But no matter what you do to it, it's still not a ZL1 and that's just reality. Feels nothing like one, handles nothing like one. The SS to the SS 1LE was a night/day difference. From the SS 1LE to the ZL1 it was a night/day difference. After driving one the choice was crystal clear. I did some soul searching before I traded my 1LE in, meeting up with SUKXOST. Truly an amazing ride. He made the decision tough!

You have to keep in mind when calculating figures not everyone is able to achieve the lowest possible figures. Some are paying MSRP which could be $44-45k for there respective 1LE. So add the $6-7k for supercharger/tune. Your right there at $51-51k which is a '12 ZL1. It just all depends really on the person, his or her wants. Do they want the 1SS or 2SS, etc. I got my 2SS/RS 1LE (NPP, Sunroof, Prem mats, Nav) for $41k which was MSRP at for $45,270. I did research and still to supercharge it would have been $6-8k considering I would upgrade the headers and other things. There we go back to the $50k range. Realizing that a ZL1 just seemed logical. GM certified too, I had to pull the trigger.

I'm the guy who feels comfortable with a warranty atleast for the 3-5 years. It keeps me warm at night if I say so myself. Sure I could have put a S/C on it but the cons outweighed the pros in my current situation so I went ahead and traded it in. I have no regrets what so ever, other then I wished mine had that whine like SUKXOST has in his, haha.

If you have the extra money to create a blanket in case the unforeseen happens then sure go for it. But between deployments, SDAs I'd rather not deal with it. Just wasn't a logical decision for me. To add I do own a piece of history, which is truly a '69 reborn.
I am not knocking the ZL1, it's very cool. And of course no Mag ride for the 1LE. I did notice that Car and Driver said the ZL1 felt just like a 1LE with more power after spending time with both on a track, so the handling is comparable.

Also I agree with you. If you start with a loaded 2SS you get too close to the ZL1 price which is why I chose a 1SS, which to me is very well equipped.

But most of all respect for what you do. If that ZL1 makes you feel good its worth every penny. For me though, helping 2 of my kids through college I am looking for a bargain.

And I will say this, if I had the cash i would buy a ZL1 in a heartbeat. It really is the best of all worlds.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:36 AM   #14
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It's not just about the warranty. It's about the durability. GM tests their engines with engine dynos, and road testing, and must meet durability standards. The LS3 was never designed or tested for a supercharger, so you are on your own. It can get expensive blowing up engines. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Also the supercharger is going to add weight to the front of the car, and the suspension was not tuned for that weight. You are likely to get more understeer.

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