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Old 03-13-2013, 09:53 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
It's just more options on the same car. It's not like the past when they were selling the Camaro and Firebird.
....it's about market shares, and sales, both will be closely grouped performance wise....the technology is too close for comfort right now, and the prices like you propossed will be too close...so the numbers will split in half...why have two close together and split the sales in half, rather than have one and get 100 percent. More cost effective in labor, materials, overhead etc...to have one..
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:19 PM   #87
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:24 PM   #88
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I agree to some extent...if people are cross shopping, either they like the idea of a supercharged car or they would rather a naturally aspirated. If the blue oval boys have two to choose from it might lose a sale for GM. If a person can have roughly the same performance out of a car for less most will go for less..others will just want the baddest they can afford, hence the sale of a ZL1.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:25 PM   #89
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:25 PM   #90
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My Camaro history is a little muddy... Was the Z28 just an RPO code that took a life of it's own or was it actually a Submodel?

My thinking is why can't it just be an option like the 1LE is? Something along the lines of an option that requires another option. I think right now the HotWheels Edition requires the RS package. So figure the Z28 at maybe $6500-$10000 requires the 1LE at the $3500. It would be expensive as all hell but if you want it you get it.

As far as the LS7 goes it doesn't have to be so expensive. Cut out the hand building and get rid of a couple of other things IDK what really but it has to be doable. The LS7 lists for what? $14Kish? An LS3 is roughly 1/2 that. With the exception of it being desirable for it to have the ZL1 rear the upgrades are there with the 1LE.

A 2SS would come in a few grand shy of $50K. So what $7K-$13K than a ZL1? If you want a basic track car a 1SS could be done for low $40's.

It's doable. IDK if I would really want it though. The more I think about it the 1LE with an LS3 is good enough for me. I'm not waiting. If it was available right now though I would buy it fast.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:32 PM   #91
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I agree to some extent...if people are cross shopping, either they like the idea of a supercharged car or they would rather a naturally aspirated. If the blue oval boys have two to choose from it might lose a sale for GM. If a person can have roughly the same performance out of a car for less most will go for less..others will just want the baddest they can afford, hence the sale of a ZL1.
...but look at corporate ambition. Ford had the ambition to stomp with HP, GM not. This foot on throat HP fight is won by Ford. There is no answer back from GM, there will not be anything heard from the bowtie brigade until 2015/half year 2016 for the Camaro to answer back. ZL1 rests on it's laurels. There is your answer. Ford takes HP, on a yearly basis, one on one, more personally than GM. Since the Camaro can't fight on two fronts successfully and has a front runner with the 1LE without any doubt in it's class..make one and make it the best. The Vette is the halo car, with the expendable income crowd to sustain its growth and sales, not the Camaro crew. The ZL1, Z/28, 1LE should be combined for the next beat down Camaro.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:00 PM   #92
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What they need to do is build IDK an LS10 or something make it a 7L with a 4.0L Whipple from the COPO program and bring the insanity. No hand building necessary. If they can get an LS3 to stay together they can this to work.

650HP Mudstain my ass... Hit them with 700HP!

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Old 03-14-2013, 08:46 AM   #93
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I kinda believe that there is a better chance of an LS9 getting a power bump and ending up in a ZL1 to compete with the GT500(which at that point there wont be a comparison) than there is an LS7 powered "Z/28" coming to fruition. The ZL1 has a direct competitor and with the LS9 in it, I know that Ford will have no answer for it. A 650hp factory ZL1 would wipe the snot out of the GT500. It already has better brakes, better steering and better looks(personal opinion) it just needs more as Scotty would say "I don't have the power Captain"
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:57 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
....it's about market shares, and sales, both will be closely grouped performance wise....the technology is too close for comfort right now, and the prices like you propossed will be too close...so the numbers will split in half...why have two close together and split the sales in half, rather than have one and get 100 percent. More cost effective in labor, materials, overhead etc...to have one..
So Coke and Pepsi should make 1 product, Samsung 1 style or even size of TV? Or Pringles 1 flavor of chips because it will only eat at market share? The company I work for designs and build very sophisticated POS systems some products are very close in use and design yet offer enough of a difference to either move customers up the ladder or bring in a new customer base. Again its the same car with other option packages as an alternative. Needless to say I don't get your argument. I agree to disagree.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:22 PM   #95
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I kinda believe that there is a better chance of an LS9 getting a power bump and ending up in a ZL1 to compete with the GT500(which at that point there wont be a comparison) than there is an LS7 powered "Z/28" coming to fruition. The ZL1 has a direct competitor and with the LS9 in it, I know that Ford will have no answer for it. A 650hp factory ZL1 would wipe the snot out of the GT500. It already has better brakes, better steering and better looks(personal opinion) it just needs more as Scotty would say "I don't have the power Captain"
A ZL1 with an LS9 would be an awesome car and would dominate in many ways. It would be super car status for sure. However in a straight line, drag strip setting it would still not beat the GT500 whose engine is more powerful than an LS9. I love both cars and Shelby has left a legacy, its not the best rounded car for sure, and it has its faults but the GT500 is the best factory drag car, and will be for some time.....
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:25 PM   #96
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...but look at corporate ambition. Ford had the ambition to stomp with HP, GM not. This foot on throat HP fight is won by Ford. There is no answer back from GM, there will not be anything heard from the bowtie brigade until 2015/half year 2016 for the Camaro to answer back. ZL1 rests on it's laurels. There is your answer. Ford takes HP, on a yearly basis, one on one, more personally than GM. Since the Camaro can't fight on two fronts successfully and has a front runner with the 1LE without any doubt in it's class..make one and make it the best. The Vette is the halo car, with the expendable income crowd to sustain its growth and sales, not the Camaro crew. The ZL1, Z/28, 1LE should be combined for the next beat down Camaro.
This HP battle isn't nearly as important to GM or Ford as the fight for sales. And on that front the Camaro does just fine against the Mustang. Obviously there is a rivalry and some very educated and proud people on both sides that work very hard to create the best car they can. However, throughout the history of these two it's not often that the one that wins at the track wins in the showroom. Despite what our rather small enthusiast flock likes to think.
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:27 PM   #97
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ah ha..well you see even though the GT500 might have a slight HP advantage at that point, it's all about the torque and gearing after that and I believe the ZL1 would win.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:04 PM   #98
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ah ha..well you see even though the GT500 might have a slight HP advantage at that point, it's all about the torque and gearing after that and I believe the ZL1 would win.
The 5.8 in the GT500 produces more power and torque than the LS9.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:29 PM   #99
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GM is taking off across the planet. It's engineering and development skills are in the lead across the board. Heck, they are even shifting their marketing contracts as we speak as I wanted to get the right message out there hopefully to the right target base which IMHO was an area they woefully lacked in. Right now, taking all things into perspective, they are on the right path for major success. However, EPA, GOV, mandates, new manufacturing processes, materials, and technology will limit the HP market in the not too distant future, Enjoy what you have, or can get now if you can afford it. Things will change very soon, and so will the MSRP's. The HP market will shrink for Camaro, mark my words. History always repeats itself.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:04 AM   #100
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The 5.8 in the GT500 produces more power and torque than the LS9.
No actually LS9 has 4lbs torque more than gt500.

Specs GT500 662HP and 600lbs torque
LS9 638HP and 604lbs torque both being supercharged.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:12 AM   #101
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Well either way, we all know that GM under-rates their motor and doesn't produce all out beasts, for durability reasons. The boost on the LS9 is 10 lbs, the GT500 is 14lbs.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:02 PM   #102
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I know one thing the 2014 camaro will have digital dash just like the 14 corvette and 14 jeep srt8. Everything is changing for the more of a up to date look. No horsepower increase because of EPA went up starting 2015. So car industry is trying to keep up with EPA. It all about fuel econamy
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