Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
SDPC
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-07-2013, 12:51 PM   #1
DuskSS
Bayou City Muscle Cars
 
DuskSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1,442
Why on earth would going N/A be considered a waste of money and time

SSRS55




Drives: 2012 Ashen Grey Camaro 2SS RS (L99)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Clinton, N.Y.
Posts: 376
iTrader Rating: 0 reviews


Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonpope2003
Um why would you waste money on a cam if you were not going to do the rest?

The TVS is nice.. but I'm going to be putting out more than it on the LS3 with the LR package which was still over 2k cheaper than a TVS and install.
And then when I bolt that TVS or ECS on next year will be well into the 700s

I know who he is but I prefer how us Southern boys play..
LMR and LR for life


Oh and putting over 500 Hp without forced induction or Turbo....

__________________
*2012 2SS/RS L99/Ashen Grey*
- Pace Car Strp's - Vinyl Covered Bowties
- DefenderWorx Pistol Grip - Vitesse Paddles
- Elite Catch Can - DRL Harness - 5000K DRL's
- Solo CatBack w/J Pipes
- CAI Intake - VMax Ported TB
- JRE Race Scoop - RotoFab Reloc. Bottle
- SCT X3 Tuner - Jannetty 93 Tune
- Texas Speed 304 SS Headers - High Flow Cats
*2010 Ram Quad Hemi w/Bolt on's, Tune and Meaty Tires*



Why would anyone think this?
He said higher up in this thread Jannetty Racing says N/A it is a waste of time and money.

I don't follow his logic, sorry in my time you always built the engine before going FI to get the best results. a breathing engine is far superior to bolting on a SC/Turbo and have it suffocate through stock heads and valve train and exhaust.

Down here the shops seem to agree with me.
LMR and Lethal and many others all prefer to get the cam and heads in first to get the most out of it before going FI.

What are y'alls feelings on this?
__________________
2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Lethal Racing Stage V
PER 418ci Forged LS3
530/520 SAE

Last edited by DuskSS; 03-14-2013 at 08:31 PM.
DuskSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:55 PM   #2
Juiced1

 
Juiced1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 2SS CAMARO 45th
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: IL
Posts: 16,521
We've seen some pretty sick N/A LS motor set ups. Some well into the 8s. Really to us, it depends on the end goal for the car. If you are looking for 1000+ HP it's hard to argue a turbo set up. If you want 500-550 rwhp you can drive everyday and not worry about blowing up at the track, a nicely built N/A motor is a great way to go. You can pull 500-600 rwhp out of a bolt on blower car pretty easy but one ruff outing at the track might have you dumping more money into your motor! For some, just having a blown car is king....for others taking down a blown car while being all motor is the way to go. To each his own as they say.
__________________
Get more power for your dollar! We have the best prices on the hottest parts and we price match!

JUICEDMOTORSPORTS.COM
224-63-JUICE 224-635-8423
Juiced1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:58 PM   #3
DuskSS
Bayou City Muscle Cars
 
DuskSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiced1 View Post
We've seen some pretty sick N/A LS motor set ups. Some well into the 8s.
agreed 100%
and it makes a hell of a base if you build with FI as the end result as well.
blower cam, low compression etc.
__________________
2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Lethal Racing Stage V
PER 418ci Forged LS3
530/520 SAE
DuskSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 12:59 PM   #4
axis
Search Ninja
 
axis's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Ark
Posts: 7,191
One word DRIVEABLITLY.

Not implying that going NA is a waste of $$ but if you want high HP AND the ability to comfortably drive it around town, FI is a better way to go.
__________________
2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Halltech CF 102 fed
GPI modded intake manifold
Bo (knows) White ported TB
Kooks LT's/ Dynomax VT
Pfadted (springs/sways)
Dyno tuned by Rhino and GPI

I once parallel parked a train.
axis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 01:01 PM   #5
Ivan @ Southwest Speed
 
Ivan @ Southwest Speed's Avatar
 
Drives: '15 Z06, '01 NBM SS, '97 SS
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rio Rancho, NM
Posts: 12,195
Nothing wrong with NA at all.....

Our most famous one back when NOBODY had 429s.....hehe.

Enjoy,
Ivan

Ivan @ Southwest Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 01:02 PM   #6
Mikes SS

 
Mikes SS's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 CGM 2SS/RS 6M
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 1,030
It depends on how you look at it. Most people would rather bolt on the instant power of the supercharger and see what happens...the engine may last 50K miles? maybe 75K? If it blows, so what, you got your mileage out of it and then build a better one but you still have the supercharger you can bolt on top of the built engine and get another 75K? The driveability also isn't affected by supercharging. Who is gonna have their car that long anyway? This is an instant gratification world we live in, and in the short run its cheaper and less labor intensive.
Mikes SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 01:03 PM   #7
axis
Search Ninja
 
axis's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Ark
Posts: 7,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonpope2003 View Post
agreed 100%
and it makes a hell of a base if you build with FI as the end result as well.
blower cam, low compression etc.
One big problem with your train of thought. A car built for NA high HP isn't going to work as well with FI. You build for the route you want to take. High HP NA requires a completely different cam and increasing the compression. FI likes lower compression and a different profiled cam.
__________________
2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Halltech CF 102 fed
GPI modded intake manifold
Bo (knows) White ported TB
Kooks LT's/ Dynomax VT
Pfadted (springs/sways)
Dyno tuned by Rhino and GPI

I once parallel parked a train.
axis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 01:04 PM   #8
DuskSS
Bayou City Muscle Cars
 
DuskSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by axis View Post
One word DRIVEABLITLY.

Not implying that going NA is a waste of $$ but if you want high HP AND the ability to comfortably drive it around town, FI is a better way to go.
just as comfortable on a cammed car as I am in a blown car...
especially with a tuner that knows thier stuff.
NF has great driveabilty as does the LMR street cams.
especially with a stick since I don't have to tolerate a huge stall converter.
__________________
2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Lethal Racing Stage V
PER 418ci Forged LS3
530/520 SAE
DuskSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 01:07 PM   #9
DuskSS
Bayou City Muscle Cars
 
DuskSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by axis View Post
One big problem with your train of thought. A car built for NA high HP isn't going to work as well with FI. You build for the route you want to take. High HP NA requires a completely different cam and increasing the compression. FI likes lower compression and a different profiled cam.
Tell that to the Night Fury which is the direction I'm going with Lethal heads.
doesn't need massive compression to build very very high HP and torque.
they have been getting right at 500 with just the cam and supporting mods.
with heads even higher.

it is actually a blower grind and works very well NA as well.
__________________
2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Lethal Racing Stage V
PER 418ci Forged LS3
530/520 SAE
DuskSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 01:09 PM   #10
axis
Search Ninja
 
axis's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Ark
Posts: 7,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonpope2003 View Post
just as comfortable on a cammed car as I am in a blown car...
especially with a tuner that knows thier stuff.
NF has great driveabilty as does the LMR street cams.
especially with a stick since I don't have to tolerate a huge stall converter.
That's a matter of opinion and yours is skewed. I've driven big cammed cars and they drive nothing like stock. I don't care who your tuner is, getting a big enough cam to make 500+whp idle well and have good street manners is impossible. A FI car drives completely like stock until you get on it. There's no comparison for daily driving.
__________________
2010 Black 2SS/RS A6
Halltech CF 102 fed
GPI modded intake manifold
Bo (knows) White ported TB
Kooks LT's/ Dynomax VT
Pfadted (springs/sways)
Dyno tuned by Rhino and GPI

I once parallel parked a train.
axis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 01:17 PM   #11
DuskSS
Bayou City Muscle Cars
 
DuskSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes SS View Post
It depends on how you look at it. Most people would rather bolt on the instant power of the supercharger and see what happens...the engine may last 50K miles? maybe 75K? If it blows, so what, you got your mileage out of it and then build a better one but you still have the supercharger you can bolt on top of the built engine and get another 75K? The driveability also isn't affected by supercharging. Who is gonna have their car that long anyway? This is an instant gratification world we live in, and in the short run its cheaper and less labor intensive.
50k-75k? um I've had drag raced heavy cammed cars last well into the 150K range with ease if taken care of.
and at that point you usually want more HP anyway so rip it out and stroke/bore or whatever.

BTW just so you know the 12 hours labor to even put on a TVS ( the easiest one to install) was just as expensive as the cam/heads/exhaust labor.
and then the supercharger itself is more expensive than everything I'm doing and will have the same amount of HP and possibly more had I just bolted a TVS on.

My long range goals are for Lethal to have the car back next year to throw a SC on it then finish the suspension for 650+ hp.
So the cam and the heads are already going to be done.


I dunno both are expensive and both end up in the same result.
but nothing draws attention even away from ZL1s than a cammed nasty SS rolling in. so a +1 just for the sound LOL.
__________________
2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Lethal Racing Stage V
PER 418ci Forged LS3
530/520 SAE
DuskSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 01:21 PM   #12
DuskSS
Bayou City Muscle Cars
 
DuskSS's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 1,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by axis View Post
That's a matter of opinion and yours is skewed. I've driven big cammed cars and they drive nothing like stock. I don't care who your tuner is, getting a big enough cam to make 500+whp idle well and have good street manners is impossible. A FI car drives completely like stock until you get on it. There's no comparison for daily driving.
who wants stock?
I never said it would drive like stock and I sure as hell wouldnt drop huge funds for a stock feeling car. I plan on ripping every inch of stock suspension out of the car and going pedders anyway. it's gonna ride like a gocart when it's over.

I want a muscle car. I don't want a Cadillac if I did I would have bought a CTSV instead.

I want a cammed monster that commands attention when it rolls up.

and I've driven an NF Camaro and they are damned easy to drive for a large cammed car and are very docile until hammered.
__________________
2013 2SS Dusk Edition
Lethal Racing Stage V
PER 418ci Forged LS3
530/520 SAE
DuskSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 02:04 PM   #13
Kelly@PCMofNC

 
Drives: 2010 RS/SS
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 876
I personally don't care either way what the customer wants to do. I'm talking generally about street cars/occasional race cars, not something track dedicated.

If someone has the cash and wants to do the blower first, great. That's a HUGE gain right off the bat and really lights up the car for sure. You can make amazing numbers NOW and always go back and add an intake, headers, cam, heads later to get even more power.

Or, maybe some people don't want to blow $6k+ right off the bat and want to go the n/a route first. That's fine too. It's cheaper, and you get to gain power in stages...so you do intake and a full exhaust - that's a nice gain. Get used to that, add a cam. Get used to that, add some heads. Now you're really power hungry so you save your pennies and go forced induction.

Either way the end result is the same and I don't think one way is right or wrong. It's all about what makes YOU happy and fits your budget.

My 2010 Camaro is heads/cam and makes right around 500rwhp. I'd like a blower some day, but for now this set up is great for me.

My 2006 Silverado is blower only (TVS 1900), who knows what it makes (never dyno'd). That's a daily driver type vehicle, I don't want less gas mileage or to hear a loud exhaust on a full size truck so the blower alone is perfect and fits my bill.

My 2007 Trailblazer SS has both. It's heads, cam, and a TVS 2300. It sounds nasty and makes a ton of power.

I'm happy with all three as they are
__________________

Kelly - sales@pcmofnc.com - 704-307-4227 www.pcmofnc.com
Kelly@PCMofNC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 02:09 PM   #14
Kelly@PCMofNC

 
Drives: 2010 RS/SS
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by axis View Post
That's a matter of opinion and yours is skewed. I've driven big cammed cars and they drive nothing like stock. I don't care who your tuner is, getting a big enough cam to make 500+whp idle well and have good street manners is impossible.
Disagree. If you're close to NC I will be glad to take you for a ride in my 500rwhp (ok, 496 but don't call me out) car that drives like stock.

Now, if you over cam it, or your tuner isn't so hot, hell yes a cammed car is a huge pain in the ass. But these days with the LSx's being so mod-friendly, making a 500rwhp daily driver that doesn't buck you off is no big thing at all.
__________________

Kelly - sales@pcmofnc.com - 704-307-4227 www.pcmofnc.com
Kelly@PCMofNC is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.