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Old 03-07-2013, 11:59 AM   #1
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4/7 Cam Swap... Does LS3 benefit from it?

Hey, I've heard about the 4/7 cam swap from one of the other forums, and just getting more information.

If you don't know what it is, it's about doing a change-up of the firing order. More usable power in the mid-range and an increase in HP (we're not talking astronomically).

Here's an article http://www.hotrod.com/techfaq/113_07...s/viewall.html

Has anyone done this with their LS3 yet?
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:22 PM   #2
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:59 PM   #3
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It looks like it has already been done by GM. They are talking about a regular SBC, not an LS engine. The factory SBC firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.

From the article (bold added by me):
"So the OEs may have aspirations of smooth reliability, but what about the power benefits? James Humphreys of Lunati thinks it was probably NHRA Pro Stock racer Steve Schmidt who first had success making added horsepower with the firing-order switcharoo, resulting in today's aftermarket offerings of 4/7 swaps. It's also common to see juggling of cylinders 3 and 2, usually in conjunction with the 4 and 7 switch, and that results in an order often called Corvette style, or just "C," and it's the same as a new LS1 (1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3). However, our test was of two Lunati solid-roller cams that were identical other than the 4/7 swap."

The article is from 2009 as well.

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Old 03-07-2013, 01:05 PM   #4
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Lmao!
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:19 PM   #5
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Sounds like you are ridiculing me for asking a question. For some of us, me included, the LS is a new platform, and I never messed around with GM stuff until I got my 2SS.

2009, 1999 or 2019. Why does it matter when the article was written to someone who is just now getting familiar with GM products/aftermarket?

Thanks for the added information, but try not being a dick.

At least I didn't ask what kind of factory carb I need to put on my LS3, for that I would deserve ridicule.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:36 PM   #6
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I, myself, had not heard of this same thing until literally Monday. A friend asked me about it while swapping, degreeing, measuring PTV and pushrod length on my car. I did some research and discovered GM did it for us. I was simply trying to enlighten you. I copied and pasted because a lot of people won't read the article or they will skim over it and await answers within this thread.

If it hadn't been done by GM, with the article being 4 years old, there would be much more information out there about it being used on the LSx platform. I put the date in there to save people time from reading it.

If you took my reply as ridicule, you took it incorrectly. I was simply stating facts.

Your location says KU. As in University of Kansas? If so, we are practically neighbors.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:50 PM   #7
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Good share Ken, I remember one time I was in a conversation with a noted LS engine builder who though maybe this new firing order is one of the (many) improvements that makes the LS family engines so killer.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:14 PM   #8
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Legitiment question. We do this with our drag BBC motors....Like the rest replied, GM already has the LS firing improved.

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Old 03-07-2013, 02:36 PM   #9
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I have made lots of 4/7 swap only cams for race LS engines with great results. Comp Eliminator and Pro Stock have tried lots of firing orders and the one that always makes more power is the 4/7 swap not the 4/7-2/3 swap like the stock LS!
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trw427ss View Post
I have made lots of 4/7 swap only cams for race LS engines with great results. Comp Eliminator and Pro Stock have tried lots of firing orders and the one that always makes more power is the 4/7 swap not the 4/7-2/3 swap like the stock LS!
The 4/7 combined with 2/3 was done by GM to make them run smooth...smoother than the older firing order...I guess really you're swapping 2/3 back in search of power and not changing 4/7?
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Lmao!
I guess it really wasn't a stupid question, was it?
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake-b View Post
I, myself, had not heard of this same thing until literally Monday. A friend asked me about it while swapping, degreeing, measuring PTV and pushrod length on my car. I did some research and discovered GM did it for us. I was simply trying to enlighten you. I copied and pasted because a lot of people won't read the article or they will skim over it and await answers within this thread.

If it hadn't been done by GM, with the article being 4 years old, there would be much more information out there about it being used on the LSx platform. I put the date in there to save people time from reading it.

If you took my reply as ridicule, you took it incorrectly. I was simply stating facts.

Your location says KU. As in University of Kansas? If so, we are practically neighbors.
Thanks for the enlightenment, and yes, I am sure that this topic would be more relevant than what it is if GM hadn't incorporated it in our current platform.

In actuality, it was the guy after you with the LMAO who got my nerve.

I'm in Kuwait. This is where I live, and I rely on this site to get more information since we don't have much else in ready available information or examples. If it is known in some circles, most people keep it a secret.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_ View Post
Hey, I've heard about the 4/7 cam swap from one of the other forums, and just getting more information.

If you don't know what it is, it's about doing a change-up of the firing order. More usable power in the mid-range and an increase in HP (we're not talking astronomically).

Here's an article http://www.hotrod.com/techfaq/113_07...s/viewall.html

Has anyone done this with their LS3 yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by litle88 View Post
Lmao!
It would be funny if you already knew the firing order was implemented on the LS3. I didn't, but litle obviously did!
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_ View Post
I guess it really wasn't a stupid question, was it?
It was!

Your search FAILED you! Your reading FAILED YOU!
You were too lazy to read the article, you sensitive azz!

I remember this article because its right here in the hotrod/GM hightech performance shelves where I take a shit!

Look or read 5-6 PARAGRAPHS down and at the end of one you'll read this!

. If you simply renumber cylinder locations of the older Ford engines as if they were Chevys, you'll discover that the firing order is, in fact, identical to GM style. Further, if you take the 351 and late-5.0L Ford firing order and renumber the cylinders like a Chevy, the firing order is 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3. That's the same as the Chevy Gen III and IV (LS-series) V-8s.

YES IT WAS DUMB!!!
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litle88 View Post
It was!

Your search FAILED you! Your reading FAILED YOU!
You were too lazy to read the article, you sensitive azz!

I remember this article because its right here in the hotrod/GM hightech performance shelves where I take a shit!

Look or read 5-6 PARAGRAPHS down and at the end of one you'll read this!

. If you simply renumber cylinder locations of the older Ford engines as if they were Chevys, you'll discover that the firing order is, in fact, identical to GM style. Further, if you take the 351 and late-5.0L Ford firing order and renumber the cylinders like a Chevy, the firing order is 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3. That's the same as the Chevy Gen III and IV (LS-series) V-8s.

YES IT WAS DUMB!!!
Ok you got me.

You thought I'd say something else to defend my question? Apparently others didn't know, as well. Knowledge gained at the expense of being called lazy was worth it in this case.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:43 PM   #16
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No problem
Can we "lol" now? Lol
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:16 PM   #17
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Ok you got me.

You thought I'd say something else to defend my question? Apparently others didn't know, as well. Knowledge gained at the expense of being called lazy was worth it in this case.
We didn't have the friggin magazine sitting in front of us with the answers...
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:26 PM   #18
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^^^lol^^^
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:57 AM   #19
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Yes, let's all lol ^^^lol^^^
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:44 AM   #20
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how bout a ^^^hahahahaha^^^ instead!
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:18 AM   #21
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This is the most interesting paragraph in the entire article:

On the other end of the opinion scale is Tony Bischoff of BES Racing Engines, a winning NMCA and street-car-racing builder. He told us of three separate back-to-back tests with regular cams and 4/7 cams in small-blocks operating above 6,000 rpm. "You're not going to like the answer," he told us, "because I didn't find any power anywhere." After we bench-raced all the theories, he allowed that, "Some people say the power is due to reduced crank bending, so maybe I don't see anything because I always use the best billet cranks. Others say it's in the intake, but any off-the-shelf intake is symmetrical on both ends."


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