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Old 03-09-2013, 01:21 PM   #1
FaytalsCamaro
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I Thought I knew what I wanted to do...

I was wrong...

So from the start I figured I would set my RWHP goal at or around 500. I thought I had determined I wanted to go the Supercharged route with LT headers, and a CAI. Not so sure anymore.

The more and more I research it I find myself liking the N/A route with a cam instead of a Supercharger. Especially after running across a GTO with a cam in it after leaving a restaurant with the wife, Was simply music to my ears. The sticky here on the boards about the cam basics was very helpful. But I'm still soooooo loss as to what is good for me spec wise on a cam. I have a shallow understanding of what the numbers mean on the spec...but as far as whats good and what will fit my needs....not a clue.

So that's where my camaro (or the ever so popular Cammy) brothers and sisters come in. I have a few questions and any other advice outside of them would be greatly appreciated!

First and foremost I want to say This will be my Daily Driver. If anything I may take it to the track maybe once a month later down the road for a couple of runs here and there. For a Daily Driver and the priority of driveability and reliability is 500RHWP with those supporting mods too much? From my understanding the more horsepower your wanting to achieve the more your driveability will suffer. So with that in mind 500RWHP is not a set in stone number.

When refering to Cammed cars I keep hearing the term bucking and surging used when in a certain rpm range. Im assuming bucking is just that bucking...similar to an inexperienced Manual driver or something. But the surging, what is that considered?

In comparison to supercharging our vehicles whats the price difference between Cam and Supercharger?

I've also seen it said at times that driveability of a cammed car lies in the Tune. How much truth does that hold? I dont mind sitting at a stop light shaking a little bit. But I dont want to be shaking so bad i look like a fool on a bull.

Any advice on a particular cam that you think may fit my needs would be greatly appreciated. To be honest with you I feel as though the sound is more important then the power increase from a cam...but not by much. If you need any information from me to give me more insight ill be happy to oblige
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:46 PM   #2
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L99 or LS3?
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #3
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lol my fault its a LS3
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:11 PM   #4
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NA cars are badass but they are usually built to their max potential whereas an FI car has room to grow and with more HP right out of the box. I am FI'ed and cammed and yes my car shakes at idle. I call it the harlem shake right before the car unleashes its retard strength from a light.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:13 PM   #5
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rofl nice
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:23 PM   #6
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Look at it this way, to get 500 to 530rwhp on a heads / cam car you will also need LT headers, exhaust, CAI, and a tune. You dont have to have those supporting mods on an FI car to get same whp.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:29 PM   #7
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Thats the thing though. I think the sound is more important to me at this point since i wont be going to the track very often. So getting the goal of 500RWHP is not as big a deali could happily settle for 440+
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:31 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
Thats the thing though. I think the sound is more important to me at this point since i wont be going to the track very often. So getting the goal of 500RWHP is not as big a deali could happily settle for 440+
You say that now, wait til you're at that point and you get used to the power,,,,,you will eventually want more. You can hit the 440 mark or close to it on an LS3 without a cam
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:13 PM   #9
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Order the night fury cam package from lethal racing talk to nick or shawn they will set you dtraight! if you want that mystical 500 whp get so head work done as well the spund will be even better as well. Total pricing for me for everything was less than 5gs and i needed the ls3 conversion +a stall, so it should be alil lesa for you.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:25 PM   #10
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Well i think what you need to do is set a budget and a HP goal. I know you said 500, but if you want sound over 500 then you can do anything in between. The nightfury cam is popular, Vengeance also is a popular, Mast... I just put Texas Speeds VVT2 in mine.(Dont have LS3 and i wanted to stay vvt) If you are worried about it being to aggressive of a cam and are not worried about the 500hp mark do a stage 2 cam. With mine I have not taken to dyno yet because its still in garage for winter and just finished it 3 weeks ago, but i am guessing around 450-465rwhp. But a stage 2 or higher cam + headers is going to get you smiling everytime you start your car. I went stage 2 for better driveability and i didnt want to put a higher stall in yet.

Another thing to think about is if you are possibly going to go FI after this, you should go with a blower cam so you dont have to replace that when FI comes later??
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:30 PM   #11
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^^^ what he said night fury is a n/a cam ive seen it work well with blowers as well. Talk to some sponsors on this forum tsp,lethal,rdp,vengeance, jre,etc they will all help you out and excellent customer service! Goodluck with your decision.
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:31 PM   #12
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here is mine its a stage 2 and that is cold. It sounds a little better once warm!
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:33 PM   #13
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Jesus christ it sounds amazing!! What kind of exhaust you running?
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:37 PM   #14
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http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266594 500rwhp exactly
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:41 PM   #15
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LTs, no cats, flowmaster
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaytalsCamaro View Post
I was wrong...

So from the start I figured I would set my RWHP goal at or around 500. I thought I had determined I wanted to go the Supercharged route with LT headers, and a CAI. Not so sure anymore.

The more and more I research it I find myself liking the N/A route with a cam instead of a Supercharger. Especially after running across a GTO with a cam in it after leaving a restaurant with the wife, Was simply music to my ears. The sticky here on the boards about the cam basics was very helpful. But I'm still soooooo loss as to what is good for me spec wise on a cam. I have a shallow understanding of what the numbers mean on the spec...but as far as whats good and what will fit my needs....not a clue.

So that's where my camaro (or the ever so popular Cammy) brothers and sisters come in. I have a few questions and any other advice outside of them would be greatly appreciated!

First and foremost I want to say This will be my Daily Driver. If anything I may take it to the track maybe once a month later down the road for a couple of runs here and there. For a Daily Driver and the priority of driveability and reliability is 500RHWP with those supporting mods too much? From my understanding the more horsepower your wanting to achieve the more your driveability will suffer. So with that in mind 500RWHP is not a set in stone number.

When refering to Cammed cars I keep hearing the term bucking and surging used when in a certain rpm range. Im assuming bucking is just that bucking...similar to an inexperienced Manual driver or something. But the surging, what is that considered?

In comparison to supercharging our vehicles whats the price difference between Cam and Supercharger?

I've also seen it said at times that driveability of a cammed car lies in the Tune. How much truth does that hold? I dont mind sitting at a stop light shaking a little bit. But I dont want to be shaking so bad i look like a fool on a bull.

Any advice on a particular cam that you think may fit my needs would be greatly appreciated. To be honest with you I feel as though the sound is more important then the power increase from a cam...but not by much. If you need any information from me to give me more insight ill be happy to oblige
If I were you I would modify my HP goal to 450-500. That range is MUCH cheaper to hit. You can land somewhere around 475 or so for a reasonable price. If you want 500, you'll be doing head work, which is expensive for what you get out of it. Just stop short of 500 and you'll save yourself a ton of money, and get everything you wanted out of it in the process.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:05 PM   #17
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I am not sure if you can do the work yourself.. But I put my cam in myself for about 1600. You can take atleast 600 off because LS3.. That's cam, gaskets, push rods, springs.. The whole kit. But also there are things recommended like new oil pump, new cam chain ,
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:11 PM   #18
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My price was alil high because i included everything from cai to push rods
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:15 PM   #19
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I've witnessed the Night Fury in action and it sounds amazing. I've witnessed it doing work on a stingy Mustang Dyno at Straightline while Nick was tuning Camper's SS. It was laying down some good azz numbers and the driveabity is pretty good according to him. With an NA build this is the way it should go, because I believe in doing it once and doing it right.
I don't know your budget so I'm just writing blind.

1) intake if you are a 2010/11 get a vararam tune model if not get a Haltech or rotofab.
2) headers from the one end Kooks 1 7/8's or 2"(I have and prefer them) the other side TSP 1 7/8 or 2" although they are on back order.
3) heads (this is where MOST of the power will be made) there are 3 ways.

A) A set of MAST Ls3 heads that will get you over 500 easily combined with a bump in compression, this is the high end.

B) A you can send your heads to WCCH for their cnc'ing magic and also a bump in compression. I'd Call Lethal and see what the MAX MILLING for the heads to achieve an 11.5 compression ratio, this helps with the tuning also. Yes it will still be pump gas friendly on 91/92/93. I'm at 12-1 on my 416 and I use pump gas, you'll be fine.

C) just keep the stock heads.

4) You'll need supporting mods and these to ME are a MUST.
A) C5r timing chain from katech
B) Melling 10296 oil pump
C) Ls2 timing chain dampner to replace the POS chain tensioner.
D) Brian Tooley platinum springs, they have had a "0" failure rate! Yes that's right.
E) A set of chromoly pushrods (the size will be determined of you go stock heads or you mill or you go aftermarket heads.

The rest is optional and will depend on the budget and route you take.
F) if the heads come off I recommend the Brian Tooley lifters they are called SLR for slow leakdown rate and helps control the valves.

G) As much ARP hardware as possible ESPECIALLY the head bolt simply because you can reuse them over and over and over again. GM are torque to yield and are only used once.

H) A FAST intake especially if you go with a MAST, if not an Ls3 will do for now but if possible get it along with a 102 TB if not forget it lol.

I'm sure more will chime in but that's the way I'd go.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by litle88 View Post
I've witnessed the Night Fury in action and it sounds amazing. I've witnessed it doing work on a stingy Mustang Dyno at Straightline while Nick was tuning Camper's SS. It was laying down some good azz numbers and the driveabity is pretty good according to him. With an NA build this is the way it should go, because I believe in doing it once and doing it right.
I don't know your budget so I'm just writing blind.

1) intake if you are a 2010/11 get a vararam tune model if not get a Haltech or rotofab.
2) headers from the one end Kooks 1 7/8's or 2"(I have and prefer them) the other side TSP 1 7/8 or 2" although they are on back order.
3) heads (this is where MOST of the power will be made) there are 3 ways.

A) A set of MAST Ls3 heads that will get you over 500 easily combined with a bump in compression, this is the high end.

B) A you can send your heads to WCCH for their cnc'ing magic and also a bump in compression. I'd Call Lethal and see what the MAX MILLING for the heads to achieve an 11.5 compression ratio, this helps with the tuning also. Yes it will still be pump gas friendly on 91/92/93. I'm at 12-1 on my 416 and I use pump gas, you'll be fine.

C) just keep the stock heads.

4) You'll need supporting mods and these to ME are a MUST.
A) C5r timing chain from katech
B) Melling 10296 oil pump
C) Ls2 timing chain dampner to replace the POS chain tensioner.
D) Brian Tooley platinum springs, they have had a "0" failure rate! Yes that's right.
E) A set of chromoly pushrods (the size will be determined of you go stock heads or you mill or you go aftermarket heads.

The rest is optional and will depend on the budget and route you take.
F) if the heads come off I recommend the Brian Tooley lifters they are called SLR for slow leakdown rate and helps control the valves.

G) As much ARP hardware as possible ESPECIALLY the head bolt simply because you can reuse them over and over and over again. GM are torque to yield and are only used once.

H) A FAST intake especially if you go with a MAST, if not an Ls3 will do for now but if possible get it along with a 102 TB if not forget it lol.

I'm sure more will chime in but that's the way I'd go.
This is the RIGHT way. I hope you don't have any kids you need to put through college anytime soon!
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by thahemp View Post
If I were you I would modify my HP goal to 450-500. That range is MUCH cheaper to hit. You can land somewhere around 475 or so for a reasonable price. If you want 500, you'll be doing head work, which is expensive for what you get out of it. Just stop short of 500 and you'll save yourself a ton of money, and get everything you wanted out of it in the process.
Definitely good to know
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:48 PM   #22
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Definitely good to know
If you'll accept that method, then like litle and nightmare are saying... go with the night fury. You'll get the best torque curve I've seen to date at a little over $1100 in parts. If you're feeling saucy, you could be done for right around that price. Otherwise, you can probably expect a little over $2000 to have it all installed. Then, $500ish for a good tune from someone that knows what they're doing.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:49 PM   #23
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And you're in OK, so maybe consider ADM. I think they're the closest shop that I would trust.
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:56 PM   #24
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Originally you were assuming Supercharger/Long Tubes/AI - Keep the Lts and CAI in the N/A equation and allow $7000 you would spend on a Supercharger insatllation and see how close you could get to the 500RWHP goal.

cam install w/valve springs/ timing chain/oil pump/ported thotle body - $2200 to $2500 - that should get you to 460-480 RWHP. Your cam choice in my opinion if based on driveability as a major goal should be smaller duration than some of the mega cams out there. Texas Speed has a 231/235 cam, 21st Century Muscle Car in Dallas area offers a 227/239 cam that has made 500 RWHP, on one of the corvette forums there are a lot of posts about a 230/234 cam producing nice numbers in high 400's with good driving manners.

To get over 500RWHP just add a set of good heads - Trick FLow 235's or PRC 250cc heads either set milled for about 11.7 compression) come to mind or - $3K installed (less if done at same time as can install) should get you to 500-520 RWHP.

You are still spending less than the SC.

JMO - I am sure others have their preferences. Main thing - talk with some of the sponsors here or a shop you trust and get their help and opinion. These people that make their living doing this want to get you where you goals are!
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:02 PM   #25
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If you are brave enough to do the install yourself you must get some good research and books they have really helped my.understanding of how everything works!
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