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Old 03-18-2013, 11:09 AM   #1
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More LF3 News

Going in the CTS!?!

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=283506
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:16 AM   #2
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Wow, that's extremely impressive. V8 power from a v6!

Imagine if you can get a lot more out of it with a good tune!
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:24 AM   #3
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verrry nice!
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:02 PM   #4
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i wonder if they are using a higher flow HPFP...

if they are, that's great news for the FI junkies wanting more boost.

maybe they will toss this engine in a camaro with the LE package and call it the Z28?
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:08 PM   #5
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Now we talking power!!! And yes a tune would wake this thing up even more. Those with a LFX could maybe fit these turbos as it uses the same manifold. HINT HINT GM PARTS PURCHASE TURBOS.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #6
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Now we talking power!!! And yes a tune would wake this thing up even more. Those with a LFX could maybe fit these turbos as it uses the same manifold. HINT HINT GM PARTS PURCHASE TURBOS.
You damn right...I'm loving this!

That thing is amazing. Combined with the 8 speed that large sedan is basically as quick as the stock SS. Can you guys imagine what the lighter next gen Camaro will be capable of??

This isn't just some V6 with turbos either. The standard V6 has some forged parts already, but they strengthed this one even further where it needed it. I bet its just begging for a tune. Easy 500 - 550 HP/TQ.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:48 PM   #7
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really exciting
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:25 PM   #8
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This image is kind of cool.

Looks almost like they are pulling air directly from the airbox to cool the turbo.

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Old 03-18-2013, 03:44 PM   #9
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GM taking notes from Gretchen haha.

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Old 03-18-2013, 04:08 PM   #10
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Also....in the picture above you'll notice that intake is way different than the LFX design. What the heck is that coming out of the side of it? Is that some kind of intercooler located inside the manifold??

Very crazy lol.

EDIT: Ahh hell what am I thinking....Looks like the intake routes air directly down to locations near both turbos. Then it is directed back up to the manifold where it is cooled and then pulled out through the exhaust ports.

Am I seeing that right? Can someone smarter than me explain it? lol.
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:48 PM   #11
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Someone said It has integrated into it a intercooler type design, inside/near the manifold. Supposedly like the ls9

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Old 03-18-2013, 04:49 PM   #12
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The animation video kinda explains the airflow path. I had to watch it like three times to get most of it. It seems to be a very simple yet complex design. The intake is a part of the first stage of the inter-cooler system. The second part is where the intake manifold used to be. I couldn't tell but i think the throttle body is inside the new manifold thing or somewhere else? I didnt see in front of the manifold cooler thing

I think this engine is going to be awesome but with a 17/25 mpg i can see why GM went with the LT1 in the vette assuming its gets better mpg. but you can bet your next paycheck that the Cadillac version is detuned to 420 hp and 430 torque. If i had to guess the real numbers would be slightly higher than the LT1.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:01 PM   #13
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Basically, now I understand it is that the air box is designed to feed both turbos cool air (blue in KMP's picture). Then the charge air flows through specially designed pipes to the intake (red in the picture). If you look closely that's a pipe in a pipe design, so the outside is an intercooler for that turbo. That's pretty much how it works for the LS9 engine and also the supercharged Mini Coopers. Pretty cool design, but probably won't help much at higher boost.

I wouldn't be suprised if right to travel is correct. The LFX in the Caddy is less powerful than in the Camaro (mostly exhaust stuff), so I wouldn't be suprised if we see a bit more power if it ends up in the Camaro. But I don't think it will have more HP than the LT1 (but TQ maybe). Remember, this engine has been certified but the LT1 has not. I think the LT1 will end up at more than 450/450 when it is certified.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:50 AM   #14
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Tune for tune this would eat the LS3, even in stock form FI is normally faster in the way it makes it's power.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:07 AM   #15
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So, has anyone heard anything new? I can't wait to see what we can adapt for use on our engines.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:35 PM   #16
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I did a little reading on some dyno testing on the LF3. It seems to confirm exactly what I figured GM was doing with this engine, and what it is capable of:

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...no-tested.html

Quote:
In dissecting the ECU programming, there are specific torque target tables, and the ECU is empowered to do many things to get to those levels, including throttle reduction, boost reduction and timing reduction. We saw the throttle drop close to 50% right after spoolup in some cases which is where the little drop off in torque comes from. But later runs showed less torque here as the ECU learned and was more predictive. This would be less prevalent on the road because the load on the dyno is somewhat higher especially at low rpms, causing the boost response to be more aggressive. The ECU is arguably the most complex spark ignition ECU that GM has ever used. Not only do we have target torque tables, but the torque models includes things like turbocharger compressor efficiency, predicted turbocharger turbine speeds, and many other variables. I can't wait to start tuning them as based upon the way ECU is limiting the output in stock form, this engine will easily pump out 500+ lbs-ft of torque and 460-480 hp with minimal mods/tuning and should come close to matching the old CTS-V acceleration wise when doing so (I own a 2010 CTS-V 6MT myself). And as JK said, what does this tell us about the next CTS-V? Can't wait.
I am pretty certain that IPF has their hands on one of these bad boys. Hopefully we will see their results soon.
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Old 11-10-2013, 05:45 AM   #17
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This was a head 2 head featuring the LF3.

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Old 12-30-2013, 08:20 PM   #18
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I've been searching for quite awhile to find tuning results for this engine.

I finally found something from KPE (I believe also partnered with IPF or something along those lines) and the results are pretty impressive if you ask me.

The graph below is from the XTS VSport, not the CTS-VSport and I think this is an AWD model. I'm looking forward to seeing results from the CTS RWD cars.

Green is stock. Blue is a stage 1 tune, and red is the stage 2 tune.

From: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...uning-kpe.html
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:49 AM   #19
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Didn't Arno say they always correct for drivetrain loss? If so, then those numbers seem low. If they are really at the wheels then those are some nice numbers for a AWD vehicle. It would be nice to see the boost and AFR plotted as well.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:11 AM   #20
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dyno

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Didn't Arno say they always correct for drivetrain loss? If so, then those numbers seem low. If they are really at the wheels then those are some nice numbers for a AWD vehicle. It would be nice to see the boost and AFR plotted as well.
I agree. This might be fly wheel numbers.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:35 AM   #21
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Nice to see a force inducted production v6 from an american auto manufacturer, although I think we all want to see 500+hp or even 600hp from a v6 while maintaining efficiency while ensuring the engine's integrity.

I take it the LF3 is an iteration on the LFX which is an iteration on the LLT?
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:39 AM   #22
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Nice to see a force inducted production v6 from an american auto manufacturer, although I think we all want to see 500+hp or even 600hp from a v6 while maintaining efficiency while ensuring the engine's integrity.

I take it the LF3 is an iteration on the LFX which is an iteration on the LLT?
It is in the same class as those two, but has lower compression ratio, different crank, pistons, rods and cam shafts. The HPFP has higher capacity as well. There are a few other differences but I can't remember off the top of my head. So, it is about as different from the LFX as the LSA is from the LS3.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:55 AM   #23
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Ok that makes sense.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:28 PM   #24
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Didn't Arno say they always correct for drivetrain loss? If so, then those numbers seem low. If they are really at the wheels then those are some nice numbers for a AWD vehicle. It would be nice to see the boost and AFR plotted as well.
Yes and No.

Seems like the graphs he shows from his tests in foreign countries are always crank power.

This was from a shop in Scottsdale Arizona and the power numbers are listed as "AWHP" and "AWTQ" as in from an all wheel drive version of the XTS

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I agree. This might be fly wheel numbers.
See above. I highly doubt this is crank power....which means there is some very impressive power there.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:23 PM   #25
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Well stock is advertised as, what, 420/430 crank power? And he has 350/326 as the stock numbers, which would be around correct for AWHP...
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