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Old 03-26-2013, 07:44 PM   #1
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1LE suspension upgrades advise

Would love to hear some advise from suspension experts and members on a good starting point on upgrades to my 1LE. I have read the "book" by pedders on the camaro but i think it was written pre 1le and doesnt have any info on the package. I know bushings or inserts are a good starting point but which ones as far as parts not vendor? I am also considering coilovers but should I test out the stock 1le setup for a while and then upgrade?

I do plan on doing some auto cross and maybe a track event if any are close to my area. I also want to maintain good ride quality but a some added harshness is just fine.

Thanks
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:07 PM   #2
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Cradle bushings, trailing and toe rod bushings (all no noise)
diff bushings (some noise possible, depends on diff setup)
sways (no noise if greased and tightened properly)

Hold off on coilovers until you track the car a bit, there's no need unless you get more into track days. Or if you want an aggressive alignment and only want to do it once then add them beforehand. The cradle/trailing/toe bushes are where I would start. Then drive it, learn the car, decide on an upgrade.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:10 PM   #3
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Our 1LE camaro is much better out of the box than our 2010 ss was,but there is always room to improve.We will be using a the Pedders Super car justice kit,we track our car often.It depends on your budget but the rear subframe bushings and sway bars are always a good place to start.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:52 PM   #4
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synner View Post
Cradle bushings, trailing and toe rod bushings (all no noise)
diff bushings (some noise possible, depends on diff setup)
sways (no noise if greased and tightened properly)

Hold off on coilovers until you track the car a bit, there's no need unless you get more into track days. Or if you want an aggressive alignment and only want to do it once then add them beforehand. The cradle/trailing/toe bushes are where I would start. Then drive it, learn the car, decide on an upgrade.
No need for rear toe link bushings on a 1le or zl1 they come with rubber covered ball joint ish ends on them and are solid. Unless you meant radius are bushings?
But a aggressive alignment is a cheap mod after doing our alignment I wished I would have aligned the car the day after we bought it because it totally changed the car for the better
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:09 PM   #6
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Bruce@raymondsperformance View Post
Our 1LE camaro is much better out of the box than our 2010 ss was,but there is always room to improve.We will be using a the Pedders Super car justice kit,we track our car often.It depends on your budget but the rear subframe bushings and sway bars are always a good place to start.
Thanks will be adding subframe bushing to the list. my budget isnt huge but its enough to get started. As far as sways i had the impression that those should come later in the game. With the super package your putting on doesnt that kinda defeat the purpose of the 1le suspension package as it replaces all or most of the suspension?
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:16 PM   #8
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Thanks will be adding subframe bushing to the list. my budget isnt huge but its enough to get started. As far as sways i had the impression that those should come later in the game. With the super package your putting on doesnt that kinda defeat the purpose of the 1le suspension package as it replaces all or most of the suspension?
Last year when the 1LE was first released and JusticePete knew of what was included in regards to suspension with the 1LE, he recommended the Street Z bush kit and the 32MM Pedders ZL1 sway bar to start as an upgrade for the suspension. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:55 AM   #9
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I guess I would ask what you want to do with the car and what is it doing or not doing now that you want aftermarket parts to help you fix.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #10
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I guess I would ask what you want to do with the car and what is it doing or not doing now that you want aftermarket parts to help you fix.
good questions.


pfadt's solid bushings in rear and their zl spec sways are a great place to start. bushings bushing bushings solid where applicable and full bushings where not, skip the inserts.

pfadt or k and w coilovers for more extreme suspension
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:46 PM   #11
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I guess I would ask what you want to do with the car and what is it doing or not doing now that you want aftermarket parts to help you fix.
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good questions.


pfadt's solid bushings in rear and their zl spec sways are a great place to start. bushings bushing bushings solid where applicable and full bushings where not, skip the inserts. (what is applicable and what is not is my original question?)

pfadt or k and w coilovers for more extreme suspension
Answer to the first part: as of today i want to get it into Z/28 ASS KICKIN TERRITORY . Which from what i have read so far won't take much in the suspension department as it will have a very similar setup supposedly. brakes wheels and tires is another story. I do have a plan on paper for the power gap as well but we'll see on that side

Answer to the second part its not doing anything right now good or bad as it is too cold here to test it out. I'm not looking to "fix" anything but rather enhance whats there and address weak areas if any.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:25 AM   #12
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PFADT Coilovers, Solid Subframe Bushings and their Adjustable Sway bars!!

PM or Call me directly with any questions!

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Old 03-29-2013, 06:43 PM   #13
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I am very torn between pedders and pfadt. And its for dumb reasons too. I like the pedders red and not a fan of the pfadt orange. yeah i know its under the car but im slightly retarded like that lol. The price difference is not an issue per say it just means i will buy less at a time with one vs the other. Then there is the fact that i wanted to do and "SSXish" replica and that car has everything pfdat makes.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by right to travel View Post
I am very torn between pedders and pfadt. And its for dumb reasons too. I like the pedders red and not a fan of the pfadt orange. yeah i know its under the car but im slightly retarded like that lol. The price difference is not an issue per say it just means i will buy less at a time with one vs the other. Then there is the fact that i wanted to do and "SSXish" replica and that car has everything pfdat makes.
All of the development, testing and engineering for the 5th Gen Camaro is done with street cars and street tires. Caged or light weight 5th Gen respond differently to suspension changes. Slicks respond well to this spring rate while street tires respond well to that spring rate. That is why an event like the OPTIMA is perfect for us and for our client base. Here is what we have learned.

Your 1LE has upgraded sub-frame bushes. EP1200 inserts are all you will need until you are looking for the last fraction of a second at the AC or road course.

The front 27mm solid factory sway bar is not adjustable, but it is the right strength. The rear 28mm sway bar is too light for the semi square wheel and tire setup. The reason the 1LE delivers with a larger front sway bar than the ZL1 is that the wheel and tire setup deliver a more balanced car. With the smaller 25mm ZL1 front bar the 1LE doesn't understeer enough for OEM liability, but drives GREAT. So they have to dumb down the sway bars. Your 1LE deserves better so we use the 32mm Z bar to create an aggressive balanced 1LE. The OE drop links are good to go. All you need is the upgraded rear bar.

The front radius bush is the same fluid damped bush that GM asked us to replace before they tested the Grand Am prototype. We can go two ways here. The EP6579 full face insert or the EP6577 full bush. Either will reduce the unwanted caster changes that the OE fluid damped bush allows. The range of caster change creates a vague steering wheel. With the full bush or the insert caster changes are reduced and steering is more precise.

These are the low hanging fruit on the 1LE. These budget friendly upgrades you want and need for your 1LE. When you are ready we can add Supercars and a few more bushes. Until then, you'll be driving a 1LE on Pedders steroids.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
All of the development, testing and engineering for the 5th Gen Camaro is done with street cars and street tires. Caged or light weight 5th Gen respond differently to suspension changes. Slicks respond well to this spring rate while street tires respond well to that spring rate. That is why an event like the OPTIMA is perfect for us and for our client base. Here is what we have learned.

Your 1LE has upgraded sub-frame bushes. EP1200 inserts are all you will need until you are looking for the last fraction of a second at the AC or road course.

The front 27mm solid factory sway bar is not adjustable, but it is the right strength. The rear 28mm sway bar is too light for the semi square wheel and tire setup. The reason the 1LE delivers with a larger front sway bar than the ZL1 is that the wheel and tire setup deliver a more balanced car. With the smaller 25mm ZL1 front bar the 1LE doesn't understeer enough for OEM liability, but drives GREAT. So they have to dumb down the sway bars. Your 1LE deserves better so we use the 32mm Z bar to create an aggressive balanced 1LE. The OE drop links are good to go. All you need is the upgraded rear bar.

The front radius bush is the same fluid damped bush that GM asked us to replace before they tested the Grand Am prototype. We can go two ways here. The EP6579 full face insert or the EP6577 full bush. Either will reduce the unwanted caster changes that the OE fluid damped bush allows. The range of caster change creates a vague steering wheel. With the full bush or the insert caster changes are reduced and steering is more precise.

These are the low hanging fruit on the 1LE. These budget friendly upgrades you want and need for your 1LE. When you are ready we can add Supercars and a few more bushes. Until then, you'll be driving a 1LE on Pedders steroids.
I listened to Pete and love the way my 1LE handles using the above parts and Supercar Coilovers.....I highly recommend them....
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:08 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by right to travel View Post
Would love to hear some advise from suspension experts and members on a good starting point on upgrades to my 1LE. I have read the "book" by pedders on the camaro but i think it was written pre 1le and doesnt have any info on the package. I know bushings or inserts are a good starting point but which ones as far as parts not vendor? I am also considering coilovers but should I test out the stock 1le setup for a while and then upgrade?

I do plan on doing some auto cross and maybe a track event if any are close to my area. I also want to maintain good ride quality but a some added harshness is just fine.

Thanks
To answer the implied question first, I think New England Region SCCA runs autocrosses at Ft. Devens, and Lime Rock Park somewhere out in the northwest corner of CT and the road course at New Hampshire Motor Speedway in NH aren't all that far away. North Jersey SCCA runs at Giants Stadium just into NJ, and a couple hours past that are the two road courses at NJMP in South Jersey.

Based on the above, let me suggest first getting out to a couple of events with the car the way you're at least a little used to. Hardly anything that even remotely resembles sane street driving approaches the car's limits as closely as autocross does or open tracking can (even for novices). I-95 through Warwick and in and around the I-195 interchange area may be "fun" but don't hardly qualify.

The parts will still be there. You probably will want to do some bushing mods, but knowing what you started out with actually feels like when driven hard and modding from there is worth more than only knowing intellectually that there should have been some improvement from the mods you made before driving it hard.


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Old 03-31-2013, 11:14 AM   #17
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The LSA sways are 25% tortionaly stiffer with a weight savings of almost 21 lbs in total. Check them out, very nice components. Solid Subframe bushings are great and even stiffer toe and trailing arms. GM did a great job with them but still flex when pushed hard. I installed Billet arms and they feel great, you can get chrome moly arms too. Did I mention LSR was reasonably priced too....
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:08 PM   #18
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The LSA sways are 25% tortionaly stiffer with a weight savings of almost 21 lbs in total. Check them out, very nice components. Solid Subframe bushings are great and even stiffer toe and trailing arms. GM did a great job with them but still flex when pushed hard. I installed Billet arms and they feel great, you can get chrome moly arms too. Did I mention LSR was reasonably priced too....
Mounting an arm made of unobtainium with a tensile strength a 22 billon pounds into a mild steel bracket accomplishes exactly what?

We have been beating on 5th Gens since the summer of 2009. We have bent exactly ONE toe link and that ONE bent tow link was the direct result of a toe bolts that came loose. The new ZL1 style toe link in an excellent part. It is PERFECTLY matched to the strength of the mild steel mounting bracket on the OE sub-frame. The toe link will bend under a load that would otherwise bend the sub-frame mounting bracket. That is exactly why the OEM arms are designed as they are. The arms deflect on severe impacts or loads to protect the more expensive sub-frame.

Solid sub-frame mounts are great for cars built at the factory with solid sub-frame mount or for seam welded race cars. The welds in your 5th Gen OEM sub-frame and monocoque were never designed for slid mounts. If you have converted your 5th Gen to a full race car, then solid mounts are ideal.

Why listen to me or all the engineers that have worked on the 5th Gen. That ZL1 Ring time didn't bend anything on the car, but I am sure that the AC courses run by C5 members place much higher loads that the Ring run
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:08 PM   #19
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Sorry I pushed a button, why the attack? I am just giving my opinion, I am very happy with my setup, it is very streetable and handles the autocross well. I just like their products at half the cost.... I did say GM's arm are great, I just chose to go with something else....

And by the way, I do have Pedders bushings in the rear LCA knuckle. And still considering the front upgraded bushings....
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:04 PM   #20
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Sorry I pushed a button, why the attack? I am just giving my opinion, I am very happy with my setup, it is very streetable and handles the autocross well. I just like their products at half the cost.... I did say GM's arm are great, I just chose to go with something else....

And by the way, I do have Pedders bushings in the rear LCA knuckle. And still considering the front upgraded bushings....
I did not mean to come off as abrupt as I did and apologize if I offended you.

What bothers me is that aftermarket parts are sold as though we are driving cars that are a decade old or older. There was a time that new cars were poorly engineered or certainly engineered far less well that those sold today and the cars NEEDED a lot of help to drive well.

The 5th Gen Camaro is a very well engineered automobile. The new Z/28 takes the 5th Gen to an entirely new level. I have a great deal of respect for Al and his TEAM. The ZL1 Ring time is outstanding. The 1LE tears up tracks. The COPO is awesome.

Can suspension parts be upgraded with aftermarket parts on a 5th Gen? The answer is a qualified yes. If the question is do you NEED to upgrade suspension parts on a 5th Gen to have a great Camaro the answer is unequivocally NO. The only reason to upgrade 5th Gen suspension parts is because you want to
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:10 PM   #21
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Last sentence says it all, I do it because I want to...... Thanks Pete..

And yes, if I curb mine now, the cradle is probably toast......
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:31 PM   #22
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Hey thanks for all the info everyone has provided so far!!!!!!!! I feel i now have a direction to go in with the suspension stuff. Sub-frame bush and 32mm sway bar are where i will start.

A question though for Pete. You recommended front radius bushes the EP6579 full face insert or the EP6577 full bush. Is the EP6578 not worth it for the 1le? I think the EP6579 may be too much based on what is stated in the description on the pedders site. And if the EP6578 isnt better EP6577 it is.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:10 PM   #23
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Pete, I have a 1LE and I had in mind to just get the "Street Package 2" with the 220033 springs. I want a track capable street car. I like the characteristics of the car currently but I know it can/should be a little better and I need to minimize wheel hop if possible. I like the look of the wheel/tire combo so I don't plan on changeing tire size. I need to close up the wheel gap a touch too 1" all around should be about right.

Is this a good plan, or do you have any reccomendations of what I should add?
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:32 PM   #24
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Pete, I just reread post #14. IDK if I want to get all into swapping sway bars just yet I like the way the car handles. Should I go with your bushing reccomendations in post #14, or would what I suggested in my previous post work? I'm set on doing it the Pedders way. I figure you guys know the 5th Gen Camaro better than anyone. I just wish all your stuff was available in black too... lol
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:49 PM   #25
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Pete, I just reread post #14. IDK if I want to get all into swapping sway bars just yet I like the way the car handles. Should I go with your bushing reccomendations in post #14, or would what I suggested in my previous post work? I'm set on doing it the Pedders way. I figure you guys know the 5th Gen Camaro better than anyone. I just wish all your stuff was available in black too... lol
Take post 14.

Once you drive a 1LE with the Pedders Z bar, you will never want your OE bar back
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