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Old 04-01-2013, 02:59 PM   #26
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So post #14 and the springs I mentioned?

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Old 04-01-2013, 03:17 PM   #27
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So post #14 and the springs I mentioned?

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Yes sir!
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:22 PM   #28
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Yes sir!
Thanks man... I'll get on that project this summer.

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Old 04-02-2013, 09:10 AM   #29
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bushings, bushings, bushings,
- but 1st...

Track it and decide for yourself what you like or don't like about the characteristics of the car, then determine if that is a driver learning curve or wobbly factory suspension.
- if it's the latter - bushings, bushings, bushings.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:35 PM   #30
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For the track, go for the 305/30/19s all around tires, like on the '14 Z28 or like in Pedders project Camaro that came with that idea before GM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:59 PM   #31
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I'd love some advise. I'd like to lower my 1le for looks, but will only do so if I can improve or maintain stock performance. This is my daily driver which I don't take to a track (yet). Basically I won't sacrifice looks for performance, but if I can have looks and performance it's an option

I was originally only going to buy some lowering springs but I felt I was undoing the work chevy put into the 1le.

What would you suggest.....

Also, I'll be putting some all seasons on for the winter, but tire size will stay the same
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:55 AM   #32
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I am very torn between pedders and pfadt. And its for dumb reasons too. I like the pedders red and not a fan of the pfadt orange. yeah i know its under the car but im slightly retarded like that lol. The price difference is not an issue per say it just means i will buy less at a time with one vs the other. Then there is the fact that i wanted to do and "SSXish" replica and that car has everything pfdat makes.
Here's your solution.......

www.bmrsuspension.com

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Old 10-11-2013, 08:27 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Msmall143 View Post
I'd love some advise. I'd like to lower my 1le for looks, but will only do so if I can improve or maintain stock performance. This is my daily driver which I don't take to a track (yet). Basically I won't sacrifice looks for performance, but if I can have looks and performance it's an option

I was originally only going to buy some lowering springs but I felt I was undoing the work chevy put into the 1le.

What would you suggest.....

Also, I'll be putting some all seasons on for the winter, but tire size will stay the same
The money is in Sub-frame bushes, Radius and a 32mm Z bar. Take the air out of the rear with 220035s, but leave the front alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by right to travel View Post
I am very torn between pedders and pfadt. And its for dumb reasons too. I like the pedders red and not a fan of the pfadt orange. yeah i know its under the car but im slightly retarded like that lol. The price difference is not an issue per say it just means i will buy less at a time with one vs the other. Then there is the fact that i wanted to do and "SSXish" replica and that car has everything pfdat makes.
Thee SSX is the coolest looking car t never run a hot lap on a track. Not a single lap. Then there are the Pedders USA prepared Camaros which have never finished behind any other Modern Muscle car.
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:33 AM   #34
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The money is in Sub-frame bushes, Radius and a 32mm Z bar. Take the air out of the rear with 220035s, but leave the front alone
I'm confused what your suggesting.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:50 AM   #35
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.
Not speaking for Pete but the way I understand it get a 1LE Permagrin kit and rear drop springs to level it out.

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Old 10-12-2013, 11:08 AM   #36
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I'm confused what your suggesting.

Long Story


The 1LE is very well done from the showroom floor. The wheels, tire and gear ratio that are part of the 1LE package are a steal of a deal. The front sway bar diameter is 27mm solid. I have been running and selling front 27mm bars since 2009. I have also been using a 32mm rear bar since 2009 and wanted a much bigger rear bar. When the ZL1 was introduced with the new rear sway bar mounting points out closer to the wheels the geometry change made the bars effectively larger. A 32mm rear ZL1 / 1LE bar is ideal with the 1LE 27mm front.

The only reason the 1LE doesn't deliver from the factory with a 27mm rear bar is it makes the car too neutral. Broad based use of ABS saves lives, but impairs a drivers ability to learn how to drive. What you learn is ABS fixes everything. Sliding in a turn, lift and and brake hard. Let the ABS fix it. Slowing down or using ABS will fix it... in an UNDERsteer car. Make the car neutral or biased towards OVERsteer and lifting cuases a spin as fast as you can lift. With the square tire setup on the 1LE the 25mm front 28mm rear ZL1 bars made the car too neutral so they added the larger 27mm front 1LE bar to increase UNDERsteer. Replace the 28mm 1LE OEM bar with a Pedders 32mm Z bar and you now have the balance most drivers dream about. That is one reason it is included in the Permagrin kit.

TEAM Camaro has been tweaking the sub-frame bushings for the IRS almost annually. They are not quite good, but there is still rear end steer in the 1LE or a bit of loose rear end when the car is driven hard. Our sub-frame bushing increase the control surface over the OEM bushes by 300 to 900%. Rear end steer, loose rear end disappear making the 1LE more stable and more predictable. You can drive harder with more confidence.

The front fluid damped radius bushes are a bit too compliant for our driving style. This compliance results in a wider range of caster change than we like. We replace those with a urethane steel jacketed bushing and narrow the range of dynamic caster change. This improves the on center feel of your steering.

When we dial in a 5th Gen for the track we level the car. The ride heights with 20" wheels are 580mm front and rear. This is contrary to the setup of most race cars where the rear end is higher than the front end. The rake contributes to weight shift and helps in cormering and braking. The 5th Gen is a large structurally robust Muscle Car. We have found that by lowering the rear end weight transfer is more controlled and the car more composed. Dropspeed gets credit for using our 220033 rear coils with the 1LE front coils first on a 1LE. His track time results confirs this works well while preserving OEM ride quality.

Short Story

The money is in Sub-frame bushes, Radius and a 32mm Z bar. Take the air out of the rear with 220035s, but leave the front alone


Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefighter View Post
Not speaking for Pete but the way I understand it get a 1LE Permagrin kit and rear drop springs to level it out.

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Exactly.
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:53 AM   #37
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Answer to the first part: as of today i want to get it into Z/28 ASS KICKIN TERRITORY . Which from what i have read so far won't take much in the suspension department as it will have a very similar setup supposedly. brakes wheels and tires is another story. I do have a plan on paper for the power gap as well but we'll see on that side

Answer to the second part its not doing anything right now good or bad as it is too cold here to test it out. I'm not looking to "fix" anything but rather enhance whats there and address weak areas if any.
Short answer: When I was in your shoes, I looked at the fastest Camaros out there and saw that they're running Pedders.

To get your 1LE kicking the ass of most cars on track days, get the Pedders 1LE Permagrin Package.

But to get into Z/28 ASS KICKIN TERRITORY (love the way you put that!) add to it the Pedders Supercar Coilovers. Take a look at my Buttonwillow track write up in my signature below to see how that set up performs. Highly, highly recommend!
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:02 PM   #38
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Can you lower the 1le with some springs and will it improve the handling or make it bad
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:34 PM   #39
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Can you lower the 1le with some springs and will it improve the handling or make it bad
Everything I'm hearing is leave it or put pedders springs in the rear if your serious about tracking the car.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:17 PM   #40
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Everything I'm hearing is leave it or put Pedders springs in the rear if your serious about tracking the car.






Our order of preference is Permagrin and then rear coils.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:31 PM   #41
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Is it that detrimental to drop the front and rear?

I figure I will end up having to throw 305's out back too. The power is going up and it seems like the 285's have trouble with the power as it is.

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Old 10-17-2013, 08:33 PM   #42
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how much for the rear peddler springs?
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White_SS/RS View Post
Everything I'm hearing is leave it or put pedders springs in the rear if your serious about tracking the car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefighter View Post
Is it that detrimental to drop the front and rear?

I figure I will end up having to throw 305's out back too. The power is going up and it seems like the 285's have trouble with the power as it is.

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It is all about balance. The reason we drop the rear is to be more composed when braking. Weight shift to the nose in most 'race' cars in highly desirable. In a 5th Gen it over loads the front tires and unsettles the car. Dropping the rear translates to less dive on braking.

In the front you have a linear suspension movement. The wheel goes up an 1" in the wheel well and the spring compresses an inch. Jounce travel is the distance from the top of the strut tube to the bottom of the bumpstop. For this discussion we'll say it is 60mm. If you lower the front 1" 25mm you have only 35mm of jounce travel. Going hard on the bumpstop unsettles the car in turns. In the rear there is a motion ratio. For this discussion we'll say the rear wheel moves up 1" the spring compresses 1/2". If we lower the rear a bit we don't lose as much jounce travel.

The 285s squared are mission critical to the handling of the 1LE. If you go to 305s in the rear and stay with 285s up front you are back to the understeer found in a SS or damn close. The Z/28 runs 305s squared. My Pedders USA Camaro ran 305s squared way back in 2009. If you add 305s to the rear, finish the job with 305s up front
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:44 PM   #44
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how much for the rear peddler springs?
This forum does not allow me t post pricing or links in the thread. I'll send you the links in a PM.

PS: The forum does allow C5 members to post links.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:29 PM   #45
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It is all about balance. The reason we drop the rear is to be more composed when braking. Weight shift to the nose in most 'race' cars in highly desirable. In a 5th Gen it over loads the front tires and unsettles the car. Dropping the rear translates to less dive on braking.

In the front you have a linear suspension movement. The wheel goes up an 1" in the wheel well and the spring compresses an inch. Jounce travel is the distance from the top of the strut tube to the bottom of the bumpstop. For this discussion we'll say it is 60mm. If you lower the front 1" 25mm you have only 35mm of jounce travel. Going hard on the bumpstop unsettles the car in turns. In the rear there is a motion ratio. For this discussion we'll say the rear wheel moves up 1" the spring compresses 1/2". If we lower the rear a bit we don't lose as much jounce travel.

The 285s squared are mission critical to the handling of the 1LE. If you go to 305s in the rear and stay with 285s up front you are back to the understeer found in a SS or damn close. The Z/28 runs 305s squared. My Pedders USA Camaro ran 305s squared way back in 2009. If you add 305s to the rear, finish the job with 305s up front
Well let's say I go 305 rear and run a Permagrin kit doesn't that compensate to a certain degree for what I lose with the loss of the square setup?

As far as the springs go I want to close up the wheel gap to a certain degree. I understand your point about the travel and also the loading of the brakes. So I'm not sure what to do then. I know Supercars is the real answer.

The idea of 305's all around is appealing but that involves new wheels. Or is there a way to pull it off with my stock ZL1/1LE wheels?

I think what will have to happen is either late December or early January. I plan to have Suspension and Aero done by mid year.


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Old 10-17-2013, 09:59 PM   #46
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Below in RED.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefighter View Post
Well let's say I go 305 rear and run a Permagrin kit doesn't that compensate to a certain degree for what I lose with the loss of the square setup? Yes, it does. Not ideal, but much better than with the 28mm OE rear bar.

As far as the springs go I want to close up the wheel gap to a certain degree. I understand your point about the travel and also the loading of the brakes. So I'm not sure what to do then. I know Supercars is the real answer. Close the rear wheel gap and enjoy the handling.

The idea of 305's all around is appealing but that involves new wheels. Or is there a way to pull it off with my stock ZL1/1LE wheels? 305s would be swimming on anything less than 10.5" wide rims.

I think what will have to happen is either late December or early January. I plan to have Suspension and Aero done by mid year.


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Old 10-17-2013, 10:31 PM   #47
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580mm???
We measure fro the lower rim lip, up through the wheel center to the edge of the fender in mm. Why mm? 580 on one side and 583 on the other is a difference of 3mm. Very simple compared to 22.834645669291" and 22.95275590551153"



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Old 10-17-2013, 10:34 PM   #48
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Do you mean 680mm for a 20" wheel? 580mm is awfully low...
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:36 PM   #49
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Do you mean 680mm for a 20" wheel? 580mm is awfully low...
OE is about 700mm in the rear so yes it should rear 680mm. GREAT GET!!!!
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:37 PM   #50
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I am very torn between pedders and pfadt. And its for dumb reasons too. I like the pedders red and not a fan of the pfadt orange. yeah i know its under the car but im slightly retarded like that lol. The price difference is not an issue per say it just means i will buy less at a time with one vs the other. Then there is the fact that i wanted to do and "SSXish" replica and that car has everything pfdat makes.
Pedders. Hands down.
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