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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 03-30-2013, 12:34 PM   #351
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These are going to be garage queens that see very very minimal track time. ..... Don't kid yourselves, it's a great car, but maybe 10 of the 2000 sold will see a track day. For those of you who will be able to afford one, enjoy it, it is meant to be driven!
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I disagree, and here's why.

In 1993 and 1994 Porsche built a 911 model called the RS America. The car was built as a street legal track car. It had uprated suspension, brakes, aero, wheels and tires. It also had significantly reduced weight from deleted AC, power steering, radio/stereo, cruise control, sunroof etc. Rear seats were removed and replaced with light weight carpet. Even the door handles were replaced with cloth pull straps. Porsche built only 701 of these cars, but did people hoard them as garage queens and collector items? Hell no. Virtually all of them saw track duty. When I started doing track days in 1996 I would see several of these cars at every event I attended. Even today almost 20 years after they were introduced I canít go to a PCA event without seeing at least one running around the track. Many have been modified into full blown race cars.

Why should it be any different with the Z/28?

Jim is bang on and I remember that car well! In fact, there are a few on this board who race 100K plus cars on a regular basis.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:38 PM   #352
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This assumes they are still building LS7s. Are they? They shut down Wixom and moved the plant to BG. They never really detailed what was going there. With C6 production done, that would imply both LS7 and LS9s are shut down as would be the LS3 with dry sump. So what moved to BG? If the Corvette does't get the LS7 then why would it's production move to BG?
The key word in my statement was "processed"...NOT written/accepted...

Processing an order through build is contingent on having all the necessary components, available...

I would say the volume restricter, and therefore the price/content decider, was the number of LS7s available...or NOT available. Supply/Demand curves were adjusted accordingly...and THAT is why we don't have the choice of a factory-assembled 1LE-LS7...
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:39 PM   #353
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[QUOTE=Jim968;6358662]I disagree, and here's why.

In 1993 and 1994 Porsche built a 911 model called the RS America. The car was built as a street legal track car. It had uprated suspension, brakes, aero, wheels and tires. It also had significantly reduced weight from deleted AC, power steering, radio/stereo, cruise control, sunroof etc. Rear seats were removed and replaced with light weight carpet. Even the door handles were replaced with cloth pull straps. Porsche built only 701 of these cars, but did people hoard them as garage queens and collector items? Hell no. Virtually all of them saw track duty. When I started doing track days in 1996 I would see several of these cars at every event I attended. Even today almost 20 years after they were introduced I canít go to a PCA event without seeing at least one running around the track. Many have been modified into full blown race cars.

Why should it be any different with the Z/28?[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm that's easy...those are not Z/28's! I am trying to see the validity of your post but they are not one in the same..not even remotely sought after as are early Z's or COPO's and such..
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:47 PM   #354
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Hmmmm that's easy...those are not Z/28's! I am trying to see the validity of your post but they are not one in the same..not even remotely sought after as are early Z's or COPO's and such..
You are starting to lose me. You state that nobody is going to race these because they are too expensive and further, they will all be garage queens. Then when Jim points out that expensive performance cars are actually raced, you state that his point is invalid because his example is a Porsche and not a Z/28?
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:48 PM   #355
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The GM precedent for de-contenting/price increase was the 1LE, circa Gen-4, when A/C was standard equipment on Z28-Formula but the 1LE option (initially) precluded the C60 feature...at no reduction in price. In fact, 1LE was Extra Cost...

http://www.camarosource.ca/rare_specialty/1le/

Porsche actually had the 911 Club Sport (decontented) version out in the '80s.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:06 PM   #356
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It's not necessarily the price of the car that will make these garage queens, it will be the fear of price of upkeep/fear of depreciation if its driven/tracked...read the posts, some even say they are gonna buy a different set of wheels to cruise around town and garage it the rest if the time...the car is meant to be driven and I promise you some are treating this as its gonna be buried with them. Sure you can hear in the tone of my posts a hint of jealousy, but I have worked my ass of for what I have and saved where I could in hopes of a 5th gen Z, had faith it would come out but sadly I fall too short of the social agenda I guess.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:08 PM   #357
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It's not necessarily the price of the car that will make these garage queens, it will be the fear of price of upkeep/fear of depreciation if its driven/tracked...read the posts, some even say they are gonna buy a different set of wheels to cruise around town and garage it the rest if the time...the car is meant to be driven and I promise you some are treating this as its gonna be buried with them. Sure you can hear in the tone of my posts a hint of jealousy, but I have worked my ass of for what I have and saved where I could in hopes of a 5th gen Z, had faith it would come out but sadly I fall too short of the social agenda I guess.
Doesn't mean you don't have a shot at it in the future as either a 2nd hand owner, or if you acquire enough wealth to purchase it first-hand.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:15 PM   #358
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So again you wanted the nameplate Z/28, but not the actual car. A loaded original Z/28 in 69' was very expensive, why? It could have all the SCCA goodies added to it. It was a streetable racecar and is now a streetable racecar again. Think about it, how many 1969 cars had disc brakes let alone 4 wheel disc? And just that option was 1/5 the price of a Camaro in 1969. The car made the name. And it is once again.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:17 PM   #359
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The key word in my statement was "processed"...NOT written/accepted...

Processing an order through build is contingent on having all the necessary components, available...

I would say the volume restricter, and therefore the price/content decider, was the number of LS7s available...or NOT available. Supply/Demand curves were adjusted accordingly...and THAT is why we don't have the choice of a factory-assembled 1LE-LS7...
No, it's because they would be more readily available for purchase and GM's CAFE rating would suffer. They say they will build as many as are needed but no one in GM even thinks they will sell that many and that is their hope. I gives them the ability to say hey we built you the ultimate factory race car you're just gonna have to pay for it..considerably..comparing these cars to porches or ferrari's etc does nothing for me be wise those cars never excited me like the Camaro does and the only reason they retail for so high is because someone will pay it..just like dealer mark-up. Will the Z/28 still deliver the best bang for the buck comparatively speaking? Of course it will, but anyone that spends over 150k for a car does it because they can and they have other life issues that they have to deal with lol
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:17 PM   #360
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...F-bod just put up a great thread in the General Discussions, just FYI
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:19 PM   #361
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Buy a ZL1.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:28 PM   #362
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No, it's because they would be more readily available for purchase and GM's CAFE rating would suffer. They say they will build as many as are needed but no one in GM even thinks they will sell that many and that is their hope. I gives them the ability to say hey we built you the ultimate factory race car you're just gonna have to pay for it..considerably..comparing these cars to porches or ferrari's etc does nothing for me be wise those cars never excited me like the Camaro does and the only reason they retail for so high is because someone will pay it..just like dealer mark-up. Will the Z/28 still deliver the best bang for the buck comparatively speaking? Of course it will, but anyone that spends over 150k for a car does it because they can and they have other life issues that they have to deal with lol
Mike, the ZL1 will have a poorer CAFE number than the Z/28...

Go back and contemplate this a lil further...

BTW, it's a Camaro...not a true exotic...that is the uber-Vette domain...
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:28 PM   #363
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So again you wanted the nameplate Z/28, but not the actual car. A loaded original Z/28 in 69' was very expensive, why? It could have all the SCCA goodies added to it. It was a streetable racecar and is now a streetable racecar again. Think about it, how many 1969 cars had disc brakes let alone 4 wheel disc? And just that option was 1/5 the price of a Camaro in 1969. The car made the name. And it is once again.
Thank you for your astute clinical observation but sorry we are in a disagreement, I don't just want the badge, I don't even understand why I am still "wasting my breath" or thumbs so to speak some understand and some don't. Sorry we all have a different point of view.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:36 PM   #364
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sadly I fall too short of the social agenda I guess.
Social agenda? Please.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:38 PM   #365
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They couldn't call it the Camaro GS...the Vette has that designator. 1LE was taken. ZL1 was spoken for.

Z/28 was, and will be again, the BEST sedan racer factory-available street-legal package from Chevrolet...

By that very definition, it will NOT be "all things to all people"...or, possibly, not even to "many"...but it WILL be to "some"...

If "life is all about choice(s)", we now have ONE MORE...unexpectedly to many/most. But NOT for "some"...
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:42 PM   #366
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Mike they couldn't call it the Camaro GS...the Vette has that designator. 1LE was taken. ZL1 was spoken for.

Z/28 was, and will be again, the BEST sedan racer factory-available street-legal package from Chevrolet...
Sedan? Isn't that associated with a 4 door? Forgive my ignorance.
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CAFE STANDARDS! Get used to them or vote our electeds in Washington out of office...........
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:43 PM   #367
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...In reading fbod's posts regarding "Z/28" as opposed to "Z28"....is there a subliminal message there or something...I'm missing the significance of that difference...thanks...
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:47 PM   #368
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Sedan? Isn't that associated with a 4 door? Forgive my ignorance.
"Sedan racing" goes back to the original SCCA Trans Am Series...as opposed to "Formula" cars, or "Sports" cars, or...

Sorry, my gray may be showing...
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:49 PM   #369
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...In reading fbod's posts regarding "Z/28" as opposed to "Z28"....is there a subliminal message there or something...I'm missing the significance of that difference...thanks...
You have to do your history on the name but let me try and simplify it using an analogy used by another poster:

When the car was marketed as the Z/28 (early years), the car (product) made the name. When the car was marketed as the Z28, the name (marketing) made the car. See the difference? The 2014 Z/28 is all product and speaks for itself.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:51 PM   #370
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You have to do your history on the name but let me try and simplify it using an analogy used by another poster:

When the car was marketed as the Z/28 (early years), the car made the name. When the car was marketed as the Z28, the name made the car. See the difference?
I gotcha, thanks...I see that now...

...just thought he might be talking in "code"...lol...for another version of the Z28 to be made at some point...
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:53 PM   #371
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...In reading fbod's posts regarding "Z/28" as opposed to "Z28"....is there a subliminal message there or something...I'm missing the significance of that difference...thanks...
I think the / represents the beginning and it's purpose.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:54 PM   #372
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no. they-GM- can do whatever they like. 2014 Z/28 is for the purist.
even if it comes with the bare essentials it interest me. i don't want to drive a computer on wheels. no gizmos inside. except that, i would check that a/c option in.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:55 PM   #373
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Scott has a mantra that goes something like "we're never done"...and, even after Wednesday's ultra-perma-grin-inducing announcement, that mantra is STILL in-place...
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:55 PM   #374
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...In reading fbod's posts regarding "Z/28" as opposed to "Z28"....is there a subliminal message there or something...I'm missing the significance of that difference...thanks...
Only the 1Gen was a Z/28. The others 2Gen - 4Gen were Z28. The 1Gen was built to race first and be sold for the street second. Therefore the 2014 Z/28 is back to its original design. Most cars with this type content would have an R after the name. The Z/28 doesn't need that.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:57 PM   #375
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"Sedan racing" goes back to the original SCCA Trans Am Series...as opposed to "Formula" cars, or "Sports" cars, or...

Sorry, my gray may be showing...
Thanks for the explanation.
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