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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 03-31-2013, 10:25 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by Forty5th View Post
to the Doc.
X2... he nailed it, as usual.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:45 AM   #402
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I am thankful that GM has made an ultimate Camaro in the new street legal road race car. It is very nice!

What I would ask, is what GM will do to insert a product in-between the 154hp gap between the 1LE and the ZL1?
- if I split the power difference, I see that's in the ~503hp range.

Could we please have a 1LE stage II with an LS7?



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Old 03-31-2013, 10:55 AM   #403
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Motor Trend's artical on the reveal.
http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...28_first_look/
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:58 AM   #404
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I think I see why GM opted not to stick an LS7 in a current chassis and place it between the 1LE and ZL1; the weight to power ratio would be too close to the new Z/28.

But... with the Z/28 being a track prepped car, there could be a gap car made for the space between 1LE and ZL1 as a factory street brawler.

SS, 426hp/3860lbs = 8.8 hp per pound
1LE,426hp/3800lbs= 9.0hp per pound
- OPTION???
-- 1LE with an LS7 (~505hp/3800lbs) = 7.6hp per pound

Z/28, 505hp/3800lbs = 7.5hp per pound
ZL1, 580hp/4120lbs = 7.10hp per pound


NEW Z/28 -
BASE PRICE $60,000 (est)
VEHICLE LAYOUT Front-engine, RWD, 4-pass, 2-door coupe
ENGINE 7.0L/500-hp (est)/470-lb-ft (est) OHV 16-valve V-8
TRANSMISSIONS 6-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT 3800 lb (est)
WHEELBASE 112.3 in
LENGTH X WIDTH X HEIGHT 192.3 x 76.9 x 52.4 in
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON Not yet rated
ON SALE IN U.S. Spring 2014

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2P8LFsfdq
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:51 AM   #405
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There's a difference between a true Z/28 and a consumer Z28. A true Z/28 isn't a "novelty" car, it's a race car produced in enough quantities to qualify for running in racing series that require a production car that's sold on the street. That's what the original Z/28 was, and that's what this new Z/28 is. It's not aimed at the consumer, it's aimed at the racer/racing team.

The Z28 was aimed at the consumer, just like the IROC cars which were stickered to look like the racing IROC cars so consumers could drive around in something that had the labels of the racing cars but was just a street car. And they were priced accordingly because consumers on the street DON'T need ANY of the features of a true IROC or Z/28 car.

As for the "60k garage statue" remark, you'd be amazed at the money people have spent on their "non-novelty" 2010, 2011, 2012 Camaros. Many are at that 60k mark and higher so just because you don't want to spend that much on a Camaro doesn't mean others don't or won't.

Do you go racing? No? Then this new Z/28 is not designed for nor intended for you. Do you go to a few HPDE events a year? The 1LE is the model for you. Why not a Z/28 for HPDE? Although it would be killer, it's going to be expensive to run. Going through $3k worth of tires every other weekend event is not practical. A 1LE will be more than capable for all but a very few weekend warriors and the tires (which they'll go through) will be much cheaper.

This new Z/28 is going to bring racing glory to the Camaro name. And in a few years they may come out with a Z28 street car which will be basically like a 1LE but with Z28 badging for the consumer who likes to wear a Kobe Bryant jersey around town even though there's no way they'll ever even be on a pro basketball court, much less play pro basketball.
The difference is between an option package and an entirely different car.
What it was, to what it was turned into.
If this new car means something to you, enjoy. Look at it in the garage or put it on the track & tear it up. They should have called this new car a Camaro TB.
Leave the z/28 as a performance option and keep your novelty Track Bastid seperate. But, what's done is done. Things change and not always for the best.
I also did not make any "garage statue" remark, that's my signature.
I'm not surprised by how much folks will spend on upgrading their cars, the aftermarket is huge. You can look all over these forums and see some impressive mods and beautiful cars. One more reason that it wasn't necessary to reinvent or destroy an icon.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:54 AM   #406
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There isn't room for BOTH an LS7-1LE AND a Z/28 as announced, with regard to weight-to-power. Now a 3500 lb Gen-6, suitably suspended and -braked, teamed with a 475 hp LT1 would be badge- and volume-worthy...

On this day of rejoicing...let's rejoice that we got what we got!

Stay tuned...
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:24 PM   #407
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The difference is between an option package and an entirely different car.
What it was, to what it was turned into.
If this new car means something to you, enjoy. Look at it in the garage or put it on the track & tear it up. They should have called this new car a Camaro TB.
Leave the z/28 as a performance option and keep your novelty Track Bastid seperate. But, what's done is done. Things change and not always for the best.
I also did not make any "garage statue" remark, that's my signature.
I'm not surprised by how much folks will spend on upgrading their cars, the aftermarket is huge. You can look all over these forums and see some impressive mods and beautiful cars. One more reason that it wasn't necessary to reinvent or destroy an icon.
The Z28 would be an option package. The Z/28 is in fact an entirely different car. They may come out with the Z28 option in the future; especially once the Z/28 starts bringing in the racing glory. There is a difference in the designation; Z28 versus Z/28. You seem to be confusing the two. It's a very significant difference. There's absolutely nothing to say they won't add a Z28 option the same way they've added a 1LE option. It would probably be basically a 1LE with an appearance package and maybe a bit more horsepower. It would not be a Z/28. This is something I would expect in the 6th gen and maybe we'll see it. In the meantime I'm thrilled at what this new Z/28 is going to mean to the racing world.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:20 PM   #408
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He's made his point we've made ours. There's no convincing to be done here either way.

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Old 03-31-2013, 01:25 PM   #409
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I think I see why GM opted not to stick an LS7 in a current chassis and place it between the 1LE and ZL1; the weight to power ratio would be too close to the new Z/28.

But... with the Z/28 being a track prepped car, there could be a gap car made for the space between 1LE and ZL1 as a factory street brawler.

SS, 426hp/3860lbs = 8.8 hp per pound
1LE,426hp/3800lbs= 9.0hp per pound
- OPTION???
-- 1LE with an LS7 (~505hp/3800lbs) = 7.6hp per pound

Z/28, 505hp/3800lbs = 7.5hp per pound
ZL1, 580hp/4120lbs = 7.10hp per pound


NEW Z/28 -
BASE PRICE $60,000 (est)
VEHICLE LAYOUT Front-engine, RWD, 4-pass, 2-door coupe
ENGINE 7.0L/500-hp (est)/470-lb-ft (est) OHV 16-valve V-8
TRANSMISSIONS 6-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT 3800 lb (est)
WHEELBASE 112.3 in
LENGTH X WIDTH X HEIGHT 192.3 x 76.9 x 52.4 in
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON Not yet rated
ON SALE IN U.S. Spring 2014

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2P8LFsfdq
Might want to recheck some of your math. And it's pounds per HP.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:29 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by Doc View Post
The Z28 would be an option package. The Z/28 is in fact an entirely different car. They may come out with the Z28 option in the future; especially once the Z/28 starts bringing in the racing glory. There is a difference in the designation; Z28 versus Z/28. You seem to be confusing the two. It's a very significant difference. There's absolutely nothing to say they won't add a Z28 option the same way they've added a 1LE option. It would probably be basically a 1LE with an appearance package and maybe a bit more horsepower. It would not be a Z/28. This is something I would expect in the 6th gen and maybe we'll see it. In the meantime I'm thrilled at what this new Z/28 is going to mean to the racing world.
I'm glad that you are thrilled with it, I'm usually excited about new models as well. But, I am not confusing anything. The heritage of the Z28, or Z/28 whichever you prefer, was as an option. That's what rubs me the wrong way. Chevrolet did not stay true to the heritage as much as they diverged from it. It just seemed unnecessary with the positioning of the ZL1.

There was no original intent for there to be different models of Z28 versus Z slash 28. Those definitions were made up later.

http://camaros.us/camaro-z28-history-first-gen/

“My proposal went on that since our projected engine lineup for the 1967 Camaro had no V-8 smaller than the 327, and since we were above the 5000cc (305-cid) SCCA displacement limit for Class A sedans, we ought to take a high-performance version of the old 283 and wrap an option package around it to make it competitive within SCCA. "

Good luck, you should have no problem getting one.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:30 PM   #411
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It stems from the common misnomer of "power-to-weight" when, in fact, being signified as "lb/hp" it rightly should be commonly expressed as "weight-to-power".
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:05 PM   #412
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I'm glad that you are thrilled with it, I'm usually excited about new models as well. But, I am not confusing anything. The heritage of the Z28, or Z/28 whichever you prefer, was as an option. That's what rubs me the wrong way. Chevrolet did not stay true to the heritage as much as they diverged from it. It just seemed unnecessary with the positioning of the ZL1.

There was no original intent for there to be different models of Z28 versus Z slash 28. Those definitions were made up later.

http://camaros.us/camaro-z28-history-first-gen/

“My proposal went on that since our projected engine lineup for the 1967 Camaro had no V-8 smaller than the 327, and since we were above the 5000cc (305-cid) SCCA displacement limit for Class A sedans, we ought to take a high-performance version of the old 283 and wrap an option package around it to make it competitive within SCCA. "

Good luck, you should have no problem getting one.
All models of all cars are an "option" if you prefer to think of it that way. Nobody is making you buy anything. It was called a production option because that's usually what these kinds of things are the very first time they appear, especially back then with a brand new car they'd never made before. But the original Z/28 was designed specifically for racing not street use, hence the references to SCCA requirements.

Chevrolet is in fact staying true to the heritage of making the new Z/28 for racing as the rules for production classes require you to run within very defined restrictions. You can't just wildly start modifying a production car for the track to make it competitive because then it's no longer a production car; it's a custom race car. Engines, drivetrains, wheel sizes, brakes, etc. are restricted to what's produced for the class so having these things come from the factory is a big deal so it can be run in a race.

I don't need luck; I already pretty much have a Z/28 with the mods I've done to my 2010 1SS, thus I don't plan on buying a 2014 Z/28. The 6th gen might be a different story.

Instead of being "rubbed the wrong way" because Chevrolet didn't make the exact perfect car you wanted, why don't you do what everybody else does? Start with a car level you can afford, then mod it to where you would like it to be. I already have more horsepower than the new Z has so it's fairly easy to mod the LS3 to get the power you want. That and buy some Z/28 badges, slap it on a new 2014 1LE and presto; you're happy.

Here, check out my project thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45165

You'll find all kinds of useful ideas in there to make your own version of what Chevy "should have done".

I think Chevy did it right with this new model; it's going to be a landmark car. If you don't like it, make your own version. All the elements are available to mod a 2014 SS or 1LE so you'll have the new style.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:15 AM   #413
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Instead of being "rubbed the wrong way" because Chevrolet didn't make the exact perfect car you wanted, why don't you do what everybody else does? Start with a car level you can afford, then mod it to where you would like it to be. I already have more horsepower than the new Z has so it's fairly easy to mod the LS3 to get the power you want. That and buy some Z/28 badges, slap it on a new 2014 1LE and presto; you're happy.

Here, check out my project thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45165

You'll find all kinds of useful ideas in there to make your own version of what Chevy "should have done".

I think Chevy did it right with this new model; it's going to be a landmark car. If you don't like it, make your own version. All the elements are available to mod a 2014 SS or 1LE so you'll have the new style.
I'd never slap a badge on a car and try to present it as something that it is not. That's not my thing. I wish Chevy had not turned this package into something that it never was, but it doesn't matter. It's just my opinion and what's done is done. I have no desire to own their new version of a 'Z', regardless of if they want to slap a slash on the badge or not, they were both option packages. I just see this re-creation as a track novelty and not a drivers car. I stopped an order of a brand new 2012 SS to wait for this announcement that I believed would happen regardless of the lies told on this forum. It may be a landmark car to put up numbers higher than Ford on the track, which appears to be it's primary role.
Reading about the justification for the 2014 changes didn't help either. I read that one change was made "because you wanted it", my initial thought is "No, I liked that as it was." And the next change "because you wanted it", No, I liked that too. Have there been threads in the last 2 years complaining about the mail slot or wanting a hood extractor? The tail lights and rear spoiler, who had a problem with those?
These are just rhetorical questions, it really doesn't matter. Changes will always be made, it doesn't matter if you like it or not. The Camaro 'Z' is dead to me, it means absolutely nothing. The performance package heritage has become a novelty track toy & a joke. I'm sure there is a small segment of folks that will be happy about it, I'm just not one of them.
If I choose to spend that much on a car next year, I'd go with the C7 Stingray anyway. That team did an impressive job.

Alrighty, that's only a small part of my feelings towards the announcement, just a few bullet points but it's enough. I really have no desire to discuss it or even think about the stepchild version anymore. I do appreciate your rational discussion. There are enough people on these forums that only come here to agree with each other and pat each other on the back, they don't have any real desire to discuss anything.

Keep the shiny side up.
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Old 04-01-2013, 07:45 AM   #414
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Alrighty, that's only a small part of my feelings towards the announcement, just a few bullet points but it's enough. I really have no desire to discuss it or even think about the stepchild version anymore. I do appreciate your rational discussion. There are enough people on these forums that only come here to agree with each other and pat each other on the back, they don't have any real desire to discuss anything.

Keep the shiny side up.
WoW... I seriously don't think they could have done anything to please you... now bashing the people who like the Z/28 like they have no opinion of their own.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:24 AM   #415
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Wow is right! Self-centered much? Dismissive much? Having an opinion is one thing, being completely offensive is another. I'm sure there are a number of individuals that are glad your not wanting to discuss this (or anything) further.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:41 AM   #416
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Wow is right! Self-centered much? Dismissive much? Having an opinion is one thing, being completely offensive is another. I'm sure there are a number of individuals that are glad your not wanting to discuss this (or anything) further.
Nope. I didn't bash anyone and how exactly am I being offensive?

You can browse through plenty of threads and see folks getting bashed for their opinions. I'm not calling anyone out. I'm talking about a car and you are the one making comments about me.

"...people patting each other on the back.." that happens all the time around here, I wasn't referring specifically to this thread, just in general.

You can express your opinion without getting personal, that's a choice.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:49 AM   #417
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They absolutely did the right thing......most of these replies seem to me that people want to buy a LOGO, not a Z28. And they're pissed that they can't afford to pay the entry.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:20 PM   #418
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They absolutely did the right thing......most of these replies seem to me that people want to buy a LOGO, not a Z28. And they're pissed that they can't afford to pay the entry.
I somewhat agree. I bet most of the people are bitching bc this car is gonna cost some serious coin, alot more than many initially thought.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:27 PM   #419
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Nope. I can't believe GM went as extreme on the 'track oriented' design as they did, but I applaud them for it.

Anyone who want 'daily amenities' in a Z/28 clearly doesn't understand the heritage of this car.


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Old 04-01-2013, 03:32 PM   #420
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Nope. I didn't bash anyone and how exactly am I being offensive?

You can browse through plenty of threads and see folks getting bashed for their opinions. I'm not calling anyone out. I'm talking about a car and you are the one making comments about me.

"...people patting each other on the back.." that happens all the time around here, I wasn't referring specifically to this thread, just in general.

You can express your opinion without getting personal, that's a choice.
The Z/28 Section, for a long time the "forgotten Section", has a LOT of "history", here. WAY beyond last Wednesday. And for a very long time our unrequited love of, and formulae for, a "suitably equipped and badged" Z/28 was the common bond. So yes, we're guilty of an argument or three, cross-pollenation...and "support". We don't have 12 Steps, but this is where the "meetings" were/are held. And as with any other 12 Step-like program, we have established a culture, yet we try to be as inclusive as possible. No fees or faults required, other than the distinguishable PASSION many/most folks here possess. Silly us.

But, every once in a while, folks show up, think we're a brand new Club, don't respect the Charter, barge right in and step up to the podium to tell us how we should/shouldn't act and/or react. We take umbridge, sometimes, to that sorta "guidance". Silly us, again.

Please forgive us, for we did not know...

BTW, welcome.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:43 PM   #421
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I have no problem with the Z/28 but an LS7 option to a 1le would have sold more cars IMO.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:17 PM   #422
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I have no problem with the Z/28 but an LS7 option to a 1le would have sold more cars IMO.
...and maybe...just MAYBE...that would have been a "problem"...
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:47 PM   #423
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Sure it can be driven on the street, but with no amenities. I think they should have made this into a more streetable car. Drop in the ls7 and a few other goodies. The price could be in the 40's then.
NO.
Z/28 is the top of the crop track car, streatable.
Amenties are optional, they will be available to order.
You dont have the money? Buy and SS 1LE.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:29 PM   #424
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NO.
Z/28 is the top of the crop track car, streatable.
Amenties are optional, they will be available to order.
You dont have the money? Buy and SS 1LE.
+1K

I understand folks might be frustrated because this new Camaro hotness is priced out of reach for some, but I second your thoughts. Chevy swung for the fences on this one. I am guessing a lot of the negative thinking about the Z/28 -- and I've never seen a car that has polarized people like this one has -- will evaporate once GM starts publishing track times. Once the magazines get their first examples, and Road & Track does a 3-way comparison test between the Z/28, the C63 AMG Black Series, and the 911 GT3.

This car is going to stun a lot of folks, and is going to offer huge performance per dollar on a road course. Can we recreate some of that on our own? Sure -- but I'm really looking forward to using the Z/28 as a starting point. It has everything I'm looking for in a track-day car. Wonder what Pfadt has in mind for the Z/28? The mind boggles...
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:45 AM   #425
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Nope. I didn't bash anyone and how exactly am I being offensive?

You can browse through plenty of threads and see folks getting bashed for their opinions. I'm not calling anyone out. I'm talking about a car and you are the one making comments about me.

"...people patting each other on the back.." that happens all the time around here, I wasn't referring specifically to this thread, just in general.

You can express your opinion without getting personal, that's a choice.
Oh, and you're not guilty of that and you make it sound as if it's a sin.
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