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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 04-09-2013, 10:36 AM   #501
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Exactly!...lol...

...My guess is GM is gonna secretly spy on all these Z/28s to know what really goes on...lol...
...The temptation to collect information, research and data will be just too great to resist with these puppies!...lol

J/K!!!...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
lol yeah, people who don't race don't understand what's really needed on the track. The team owners, pit crews and drivers absolutely want to collect information, research and data on what's happening with their car lap after lap so they can manage and improve the performance.

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What I do not get is why did GM decide to make this car street legal?
Ford has a 2 mustangs the 302R (i think this is the name) and the Cobra Jet. Chevy already launched the COPO to compete with the Cobra Jet so why not make the Z28 a track only car.

Better yet use a different name for a track only car and let Steilow go nuts with that.

I was excited the Z28 would have been the LS7 in a basic 1LE package for the street. But i think they let their pro touring guys have too much free reign.

Its a cool car but if this thing is over 60k it makes the corvette more appealing.
In order to run in production classes, you can only enter that class in a car that's a true street-legal production car. The manufacturer has to produce a certain amount of cars for the street to qualify it as a production car. This rule is to prevent sandbagging by manufacturers or teams who would try to run something ridiculous against a genuine street car so they can win.

The original Z/28 was created to qualify the Camaro to allow it to run in the Trans Am series. After Mark Donohue drove it and won the championship, it and Chevy gained a lot of status/reputation/prestige and that helped to sell Camaros. This new Z/28 is going to do the same thing.

You don't need an expensive LS7 in a 1LE to get the performance of 500 hp in a 1LE. The LS3 can be easily modded to raise it's crank horsepower from 426 to 500 and then you have exactly the performance you'd get with an LS7 and it would be MUCH cheaper.

What you wouldn't have is the Z/28 logo on the side which ONLY has the prestige it has because of race cars with that logo winning races. I get the feeling a lot of people are upset because they wanted to drive around in a status symbol without truly realizing how and why it's a status symbol in the first place. Would people want to wear a Kobe Bryant jersey if he hadn't been a star player on a championship team?

The new Z/28 is a championship car built to win championships, and it will. THEN you'll see the Z28 package in a few years that will capitalize on the reputation the race car achieved, and that package will be in the price range most people will want. The Camaro with the Z28 package will not be the same as the Z/28 car; and it won't cost the same either. It would probably be mostly an appearance package added to a 1LE with an increase in power.

This new Z/28 has to be exactly what it is in order to achieve what it has to achieve. They did it right and it's going to become a new legend in racing. And that high profile image is exactly what Chevy needs because that brings in sales, which brings in money for development and improvements which benefits us the customer. Even though the new Z is going to be expensive, this is a very very good thing that's happening.
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:14 PM   #502
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..both good posts Norm and Doc......... "What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday"...... manufacturers supporting sanctioned racing are returning to that philosophy. FWI, the COO of Ford said over the weekend at Barrett-Jackson the Boss is discontinued, holding true to Ford's 2 year only production promise. We have only just begun with the Z/28....
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:03 PM   #503
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In order to run in production classes, you can only enter that class in a car that's a true street-legal production car. The manufacturer has to produce a certain amount of cars for the street to qualify it as a production car. This rule is to prevent sandbagging by manufacturers or teams who would try to run something ridiculous against a genuine street car so they can win.

The original Z/28 was created to qualify the Camaro to allow it to run in the Trans Am series. After Mark Donohue drove it and won the championship, it and Chevy gained a lot of status/reputation/prestige and that helped to sell Camaros. This new Z/28 is going to do the same thing.

You don't need an expensive LS7 in a 1LE to get the performance of 500 hp in a 1LE. The LS3 can be easily modded to raise it's crank horsepower from 426 to 500 and then you have exactly the performance you'd get with an LS7 and it would be MUCH cheaper.

What you wouldn't have is the Z/28 logo on the side which ONLY has the prestige it has because of race cars with that logo winning races. I get the feeling a lot of people are upset because they wanted to drive around in a status symbol without truly realizing how and why it's a status symbol in the first place. Would people want to wear a Kobe Bryant jersey if he hadn't been a star player on a championship team?

The new Z/28 is a championship car built to win championships, and it will. THEN you'll see the Z28 package in a few years that will capitalize on the reputation the race car achieved, and that package will be in the price range most people will want. The Camaro with the Z28 package will not be the same as the Z/28 car; and it won't cost the same either. It would probably be mostly an appearance package added to a 1LE with an increase in power.

This new Z/28 has to be exactly what it is in order to achieve what it has to achieve. They did it right and it's going to become a new legend in racing. And that high profile image is exactly what Chevy needs because that brings in sales, which brings in money for development and improvements which benefits us the customer. Even though the new Z is going to be expensive, this is a very very good thing that's happening.
Now production run classes - is there a minimum build and does it have to be street legal?

NHRA requires 50 cars to qualify as a "stocker" - hence only 50 Cobra jets and Drag paks. GM built 69 COPOs but that was their choice.

If that is the case then just build to the requirements and go nuts. Call that the Z28.

I mean the Z28 name plate means very little to me. For a couple of reasons it seems the previous generations it was just tossed onto cars that had the V8. I was born in 1980 and without reading history the Z28 means very little. Another reason was that the previous generation the SS was the king now it seems to be the entry level V8

If GM is trying to revive the classic part of the Z28 that is fine. I just think they should have went all out and made a competitive track only car.

As for 500hp from an LS3. Yes this is easily achieved but once again i would have preferred not to do engine mods to get this. I drove a couple of Z06s with the LS7 and just love the engine as it is. I would prefer a Camaro with the LS7 with the 1LE track option and price it in the 40s.

The Boss LS was mentioned above. Well the Laguna Seca was also listed at 48k new. Im sure there was markup from dealers but still. If speculation is correct and this is a 60k plus Camaro then i think GM did more to ruin the Camaro then help it.

I know if i wanted a track car id run right over to the Boss and pocket the 12k difference.

I am a younger buyer. Was going to pull the trigger on a 1LE this summer until i started hearing rumors of the Z28 with the LS7. Now that i see what it is - im not so sure. I will withold further judgement until pricing/availability is released
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:34 PM   #504
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The Boss LS was mentioned above. Well the Laguna Seca was also listed at 48k new. Im sure there was markup from dealers but still. If speculation is correct and this is a 60k plus Camaro then i think GM did more to ruin the Camaro then help it.

I know if i wanted a track car id run right over to the Boss and pocket the 12k difference.
To compete with the Boss, get the Camaro 1LE for le$$. The Boss LS is 1 or 2 Camaros removed from the Z/28 as far as track performance is concerned. So I suppose you get what you pay for - be it Camaro or Mustang.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:43 PM   #505
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What I do not get is why did GM decide to make this car street legal?
Ford has a 2 mustangs the 302R (i think this is the name) and the Cobra Jet. ...
Boss 302, Boss 302 Laguna Seca, Boss 302R, Boss 302S and CobraJet actually.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:50 PM   #506
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To compete with the Boss, get the Camaro 1LE for le$$. The Boss LS is 1 or 2 Camaros removed from the Z/28 as far as track performance is concerned. So I suppose you get what you pay for - be it Camaro or Mustang.

a few posts above brought up the Z/28 as the LS beater.

If that really is GM/Chevy's intention with the Z/28 then they went a bit overboard IMO and sticking the consumer with the bill.

I would opt for the Boss LS.


And yes I really am thinking of getting a 1LE. But will withold my purchase until pricing and availability are official from GM. If this is a 50k car and they will build to meet demand - I will probably pull the trigger on the Z/28. If this is a 200 car build with a 70k sticker that will probably have a 15k markup at dealers then no thanks.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:26 PM   #507
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IIRC the 1LE is already competitive/faster than the Boss 302 LS
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:33 PM   #508
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Those who do not understand the value proposition of the Z/28, please, just go buy whatever else it is you think is the better deal. And if/when you ever decide to go to the track (obviously many "mouths" here never have) then reality will make itself clear to you and you will understand things that you currently do not.

Typical forum comments- a mile wide and an inch deep.

I've got 125 track days under my belt, most all of which is in various late model Porsche. Chevy has handed the enthusiast community an out-of-the-box ready to track car unlike anything else on the market at a (presumed) price point ($70K) will will blow any alternative away. I've looked very seriously at 302S/R and came close several times to buying one. The new Z/28 is a better value than both. All the Mustang iterations have terrible brakes, and no IRS.

If you don't have any track day experience under your belt, can you kindly do everyone a favor and withhold comment?
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:46 PM   #509
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Boris, first of all, welcome.

As cool as the race-only BOSSes are, they're race-only vehicles, and not legal for the street...and $pensive. Partly because they are hand-built in very small numbers. Like the CJ and COPO, only curve-appealing.

The Z/28 was built as a street-legal car because:

1) It'll be le$$ expensive, by being built and sold in greater numbers than the above BOSSes. Development costs spread over more units
2) By being a lighter-than-ZL1 car, with more footprint and a lower cg, it inherently has more cornering capabilities. Add a few unique features, and its claim as the "ultimate canyon-carving Camaro" is assured
3) Because they could...and DID.
4) Business case did NOT include "we'll sell a MILLION of 'em!"

Again, for the umpteenth time in this thread and many others, it was NOT INTENDED to appeal to everyone. And apparently that list of "unintendeds" includes you. Maybe a 1LE with a lil "hot sauce" added will serve you well. I hope so.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:59 PM   #510
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Boss 302, Boss 302 Laguna Seca, Boss 302R, Boss 302S and CobraJet actually.
Was the 302R and the 302S a factory option?
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:09 PM   #511
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Boris, first of all, welcome.

As cool as the race-only BOSSes are, they're race-only vehicles, and not legal for the street...and $pensive. Partly because they are hand-built in very small numbers. Like the CJ and COPO, only curve-appealing.

The Z/28 was built as a street-legal car because:

1) It'll be le$$ expensive, by being built and sold in greater numbers than the above BOSSes. Development costs spread over more units
2) By being a lighter-than-ZL1 car, with more footprint and a lower cg, it inherently has more cornering capabilities. Add a few unique features, and its claim as the "ultimate canyon-carving Camaro" is assured
3) Because they could...and DID.
4) Business case did NOT include "we'll sell a MILLION of 'em!"

Again, for the umpteenth time in this thread and many others, it was NOT INTENDED to appeal to everyone. And apparently that list of "unintendeds" includes you. Maybe a 1LE with a lil "hot sauce" added will serve you well. I hope so.
To note i was on this forum a long time ago (forgot log in) so thank you for the welcome again.

With that said - this is the car I want. But hearing rumors of the price tag - not so much.

I have daily driven cars that i used to race because well that was the only car i owned.

Just priced out a 1LE through my employer -35k. Id rather have the Z/28 if its at a 50k price point. After that then we are talking Corvette money and well I love Corvettes too.

I love the car - im just annoyed it might cost so much to get the LS7 engine in a camaro from the factory.

Like I said - I am in wait and see mode
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:34 PM   #512
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Was the 302R and the 302S a factory option?
Available as a part order from Ford Racing through your local dealership, and as stated here not road legal. I do know a bunch of 302 and 302LS guys who are raiding the parts bin though. Built, as I saw first hand, on the same assembly line, although they benefitted from some off the line assembly detail.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:35 PM   #513
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Like I said - I am in wait and see mode
I'm planning to add one more and therefore in a wait & see mode too.... Stingray or Z/28 or whatever spectacular-to-me that may come out or revealed in 2014.

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Was the 302R and the 302S a factory option?
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Available as a part order from Ford Racing through your local dealership, and as stated here not road legal. I do know a bunch of 302 and 302LS guys who are raiding the parts bin though. Built, as I saw first hand, on the same assembly line, although they benefitted from some off the line assembly detail.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/compe...osscompare.asp
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:42 PM   #514
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I'm planning to add one more and therefore in a wait & see mode too.... Stingray or Z/28 or whatever spectacular-to-me that may come out or revealed in 2014.



http://www.fordracingparts.com/compe...osscompare.asp
Thanks for the link. Guess I'm too lazy. I'd love the R just for its seam welded body. Screw spot-welding I say.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:04 PM   #515
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a few posts above brought up the Z/28 as the LS beater.

If that really is GM/Chevy's intention with the Z/28 then they went a bit overboard IMO and sticking the consumer with the bill.

I would opt for the Boss LS.


And yes I really am thinking of getting a 1LE. But will withold my purchase until pricing and availability are official from GM. If this is a 50k car and they will build to meet demand - I will probably pull the trigger on the Z/28. If this is a 200 car build with a 70k sticker that will probably have a 15k markup at dealers then no thanks.
Don't beat up the fact that GM made the Z28 a "street"/track car just because of pricing. Be glad that they did not compromise. Chevy has always been a value based brand and the Z28 has every bell and whistle a "true" driver could want straight from the factory. It's the first car I can honestly say there is really nothing to mod performance wise. Why buy a $45,000. car you want to throw another $10 - $20k at when its already been done by the factory.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:45 PM   #516
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I do know a bunch of 302 and 302LS guys who are raiding the parts bin though.
...and by the time those LS boys are done, they'll have GT500+ dollars in their almost-as-timely cars as the Z/28 will be, off the truck...

BOSS 302-R @ $134,995? That's beyond ZR1 money... And folks are complaining about ZL1 money for a ZEE?!
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:16 PM   #517
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I don't understand all the bitching when all "you" want is a damn badge for your car... Why complain about the Z28 with no radio and other amenities when there is a ZL1 and 1LE to suit your needs.

If Chevy slapped a Z28 badge on the ZL1 some of you would have bitched.. others would have loved it... Chevy did the right thing.. they brought back a icon. A Icon that is back to the roots of the Z28.

The Z28 isn't for me.. I know this.. other just need to realize this also.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:43 PM   #518
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...and by the time those LS boys are done, they'll have GT500+ dollars in their almost-as-timely cars as the Z/28 will be, off the truck...

BOSS 302-R @ $134,995? That's beyond ZR1 money... And folks are complaining about ZL1 money for a ZEE?!


A lot of folks do "get it". Thankfully
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:04 PM   #519
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Don't beat up the fact that GM made the Z28 a "street"/track car just because of pricing. Be glad that they did not compromise. Chevy has always been a value based brand and the Z28 has every bell and whistle a "true" driver could want straight from the factory. It's the first car I can honestly say there is really nothing to mod performance wise. Why buy a $45,000. car you want to throw another $10 - $20k at when its already been done by the factory.
Not beating up just potentially disappointed. Reading through more and more on this car I realize it is a beast and should be celebrated as such.

It is way more than i expected GM to do.

As for price there comes a point when the $$ for this car approaches an amount that I might want to spend elsewhere.

Example - I would love to build a killer 1st gen camaro with all the DSE gear and an LSX power plant. For what i would want to build that would push the 60k mark.

If the Z/28 was 50k - id jump at the new Z/28. If it is more like 70k then I have to think long and hard about what I really want to do.

I may have been a bit harsh in earlier posts but I do have a price point in mind. If it blows past that then the Z/28 will not be in my future.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:06 PM   #520
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It will be funny to see the Z/28 owners with there head sticking window to stay cool when driving to the track. I think Chevy took the easy way out. It would have been much harder to make the Z/28 show and go. I think the Chevy engineers are sitting together laughing.. We can market anything and these Chevy nuts will buy it. I feel bad for all those 68' owners. I hope they don't start sanding down there rear windows and pulling 3 speakers. I am sure BMW and AUDI will follow Chevy's (one speaker wonder) move. That's my 2 cents..
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:28 PM   #521
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It will be funny to see the Z/28 owners with there head sticking window to stay cool when driving to the track. I think Chevy took the easy way out. It would have been much harder to make the Z/28 show and go. I think the Chevy engineers are sitting together laughing.. We can market anything and these Chevy nuts will buy it. I feel bad for all those 68' owners. I hope they don't start sanding down there rear windows and pulling 3 speakers. I am sure BMW and AUDI will follow Chevy's (one speaker wonder) move. That's my 2 cents..
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:29 PM   #522
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Not beating up just potentially disappointed. Reading through more and more on this car I realize it is a beast and should be celebrated as such.

It is way more than i expected GM to do.

As for price there comes a point when the $$ for this car approaches an amount that I might want to spend elsewhere.

Example - I would love to build a killer 1st gen camaro with all the DSE gear and an LSX power plant. For what i would want to build that would push the 60k mark.

If the Z/28 was 50k - id jump at the new Z/28. If it is more like 70k then I have to think long and hard about what I really want to do.

I may have been a bit harsh in earlier posts but I do have a price point in mind. If it blows past that then the Z/28 will not be in my future.
It is way more than we the Z/28 faithful in this part of the forum would of ever thought.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:58 PM   #523
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I like what I'm hearing from you guys about the racing qualities of this Z/28...especially regarding how expensive the comparable Fords and others are...

To that end, and I have held my tongue to this point, I have always thought the guesstimates for price...even the "high" mark of 70K...is gonna be....low!....I think you guys are looking at a 100K car all day long...Not saying it's a bad thing, just sayin, 100K seems like a fit to me for what the car is overall...

Not being negative hear at all...but a much higher price than what I've seen here so far wouldn't surprise me...
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:02 PM   #524
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It won't be that high. My guess right under $60K.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:28 PM   #525
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It will be funny to see the Z/28 owners with there head sticking window to stay cool when driving to the track. I think Chevy took the easy way out. It would have been much harder to make the Z/28 show and go. I think the Chevy engineers are sitting together laughing.. We can market anything and these Chevy nuts will buy it. I feel bad for all those 68' owners. I hope they don't start sanding down there rear windows and pulling 3 speakers. I am sure BMW and AUDI will follow Chevy's (one speaker wonder) move. That's my 2 cents..
Sorry this is following their lead, there were already stripper track day cars from them, the best being the BMW 3 Series CSL
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