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Old 03-31-2013, 08:59 AM   #392
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I don't think so. There will be those that'll be disappointed. I respect that alot...but like Scott was saying and what I've read echoed here is that its gone back to its roots, back to those who've really loved the Z/28 for what it was and hated where it went throughout the years.

I think with all the versions of Camaro you can get now...its nice to see a model come out directed to the enthusiasts, I mean really directed it seems. You just don't see that anymore unless you look at Porsche (911 GT3), BMW (M3 GTS), or Mercedes (AMG Black Series). There are others that don't come to mind at the moment...

They made the COPO...can't register it or drive it other than a qtr mile at a time. Now this...a Camaro set up to do the deed 3 seconds quicker (I still can't believe it).

You know I watch the video of the ZL1 ripping up the Nurburgring and have to say....this Z/28 will do it approx. 3 seconds quicker than that?? Don't get me wrong, I believe it can with the enhancements mentioned. Lower weight, better brakes, body enhancements...just amazing--can't wait to see the videos. Popcorn awaits!!!
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:06 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by KSCamaro View Post
If they just wanted to produce a track novelty car, I wish they would have used the "Hot Wheels" version instead of turning it into something it hasn't been in previous generations. There's always the C7 to look at, that team did a great job.
So a car that bests the ZL1 by 3 seconds is just a novelty...

...and upgraded almost exactly like it was in 69 as a road-racer first with cowl induction, beefy brakes, wide tires...etc

http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/...camaro-z28.htm
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:09 AM   #394
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For those of you who think this car is designed for the casual weekend racer who goes to track events 3 or 4 times a year you couldn't be more wrong. This car isn't just a weekend track car for the HPDE driver. This car is going to win races. It's the basis for a killer race car that's going to shake up the semi-pro/pro racing world. I expect to see this car winning it's class in long events like Le Mans, Daytona, etc.

The original Z/28 was built in enough quantities to qualify it as a "street" car so it could compete in the Trans Am series, but it was never intended to be just a street car. It was built to win races and this new one is following that rationale. I fully expect this new generation car to carry on the hallowed name and tradition of the Z/28 with full pride and honors.
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Who says it's a track only car? I don't believe in garage queens or safe queens when it comes to my firearms. If I could swing a Z/28, I would drive it. No radio doesn't bother me at all.
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Exactly, I am considering to go for it.
Doc is correct; even though it's street legal, it's really a track car. The tires have a tread rating of 60 (see pic below) that carry a R designation for Racing. Even though they're DOT approved Pirelli recommends driving on dry pavement only. As with most street/race tires they also have less tread compared to a normal street tire. so if you drive on the street plan on another set of wheels and tires or buying new tires a lot.

For record; Chevy nailed the Z/28 perfectly imo. It's probably the purest performance car to hit the market in a long time. Also consider racing improves the breed and you can bet they will gather data and experience from this car and apply it to the upcoming 6th gen.

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Old 03-31-2013, 09:12 AM   #395
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So a car that bests the ZL1 by 3 seconds is just a novelty...

...and upgraded almost exactly like it was in 69 as a road-racer first with cowl induction, beefy brakes, wide tires...etc

http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/...camaro-z28.htm
Yep, it is. I'm sure it'll put up a good track score.
While you're at it, include links on the Gen 2/3/4.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:24 AM   #396
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Yep, it is. I'm sure it'll put up a good track score.
While you're at it, include links on the Gen 2/3/4.
Why would I do that when everything about the 5th Gen has been based on the 1st Gen.

Maybe you'll get your 2/3/4th gen wishes with the 6th Gen, but the same old I don't like the Z/28 posts are pretty weak.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:40 AM   #397
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Why would I do that when everything about the 5th Gen has been based on the 1st Gen.

Maybe you'll get your 2/3/4th gen wishes with the 6th Gen, but the same old I don't like the Z/28 posts are pretty weak.
I feel the same way about using one specific year to support an opinion, instead of all the previous "Z"s. I wouldn't call that being "true to the heritage" but it is what it is.
I'm curious to see what they do with the Gen 6, but I have no desire to see the Z/28 name anymore. If they're turning into a novelty car, stick to your guns and keep it that way. There were other options to fill the "track gap" but whatever. I think it was designed to go up against Ford at that track, not with the consumer in mind.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:23 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by KSCamaro View Post
I feel the same way about using one specific year to support an opinion, instead of all the previous "Z"s. I wouldn't call that being "true to the heritage" but it is what it is.
I'm curious to see what they do with the Gen 6, but I have no desire to see the Z/28 name anymore. If they're turning into a novelty car, stick to your guns and keep it that way. There were other options to fill the "track gap" but whatever. I think it was designed to go up against Ford at that track, not with the consumer in mind.

Because everyone needs a 60K garage statue.
There's a difference between a true Z/28 and a consumer Z28. A true Z/28 isn't a "novelty" car, it's a race car produced in enough quantities to qualify for running in racing series that require a production car that's sold on the street. That's what the original Z/28 was, and that's what this new Z/28 is. It's not aimed at the consumer, it's aimed at the racer/racing team.

The Z28 was aimed at the consumer, just like the IROC cars which were stickered to look like the racing IROC cars so consumers could drive around in something that had the labels of the racing cars but was just a street car. And they were priced accordingly because consumers on the street DON'T need ANY of the features of a true IROC or Z/28 car.

As for the "60k garage statue" remark, you'd be amazed at the money people have spent on their "non-novelty" 2010, 2011, 2012 Camaros. Many are at that 60k mark and higher so just because you don't want to spend that much on a Camaro doesn't mean others don't or won't.

Do you go racing? No? Then this new Z/28 is not designed for nor intended for you. Do you go to a few HPDE events a year? The 1LE is the model for you. Why not a Z/28 for HPDE? Although it would be killer, it's going to be expensive to run. Going through $3k worth of tires every other weekend event is not practical. A 1LE will be more than capable for all but a very few weekend warriors and the tires (which they'll go through) will be much cheaper.

This new Z/28 is going to bring racing glory to the Camaro name. And in a few years they may come out with a Z28 street car which will be basically like a 1LE but with Z28 badging for the consumer who likes to wear a Kobe Bryant jersey around town even though there's no way they'll ever even be on a pro basketball court, much less play pro basketball.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:00 AM   #399
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to the Doc.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:15 AM   #400
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It's a Z/28 thing....some will never understand.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:25 AM   #401
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to the Doc.
X2... he nailed it, as usual.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:45 AM   #402
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I am thankful that GM has made an ultimate Camaro in the new street legal road race car. It is very nice!

What I would ask, is what GM will do to insert a product in-between the 154hp gap between the 1LE and the ZL1?
- if I split the power difference, I see that's in the ~503hp range.

Could we please have a 1LE stage II with an LS7?



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Old 03-31-2013, 11:55 AM   #403
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Motor Trend's artical on the reveal.
http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...28_first_look/
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:58 AM   #404
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I think I see why GM opted not to stick an LS7 in a current chassis and place it between the 1LE and ZL1; the weight to power ratio would be too close to the new Z/28.

But... with the Z/28 being a track prepped car, there could be a gap car made for the space between 1LE and ZL1 as a factory street brawler.

SS, 426hp/3860lbs = 8.8 hp per pound
1LE,426hp/3800lbs= 9.0hp per pound
- OPTION???
-- 1LE with an LS7 (~505hp/3800lbs) = 7.6hp per pound

Z/28, 505hp/3800lbs = 7.5hp per pound
ZL1, 580hp/4120lbs = 7.10hp per pound


NEW Z/28 -
BASE PRICE $60,000 (est)
VEHICLE LAYOUT Front-engine, RWD, 4-pass, 2-door coupe
ENGINE 7.0L/500-hp (est)/470-lb-ft (est) OHV 16-valve V-8
TRANSMISSIONS 6-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT 3800 lb (est)
WHEELBASE 112.3 in
LENGTH X WIDTH X HEIGHT 192.3 x 76.9 x 52.4 in
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON Not yet rated
ON SALE IN U.S. Spring 2014

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2P8LFsfdq
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:51 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
There's a difference between a true Z/28 and a consumer Z28. A true Z/28 isn't a "novelty" car, it's a race car produced in enough quantities to qualify for running in racing series that require a production car that's sold on the street. That's what the original Z/28 was, and that's what this new Z/28 is. It's not aimed at the consumer, it's aimed at the racer/racing team.

The Z28 was aimed at the consumer, just like the IROC cars which were stickered to look like the racing IROC cars so consumers could drive around in something that had the labels of the racing cars but was just a street car. And they were priced accordingly because consumers on the street DON'T need ANY of the features of a true IROC or Z/28 car.

As for the "60k garage statue" remark, you'd be amazed at the money people have spent on their "non-novelty" 2010, 2011, 2012 Camaros. Many are at that 60k mark and higher so just because you don't want to spend that much on a Camaro doesn't mean others don't or won't.

Do you go racing? No? Then this new Z/28 is not designed for nor intended for you. Do you go to a few HPDE events a year? The 1LE is the model for you. Why not a Z/28 for HPDE? Although it would be killer, it's going to be expensive to run. Going through $3k worth of tires every other weekend event is not practical. A 1LE will be more than capable for all but a very few weekend warriors and the tires (which they'll go through) will be much cheaper.

This new Z/28 is going to bring racing glory to the Camaro name. And in a few years they may come out with a Z28 street car which will be basically like a 1LE but with Z28 badging for the consumer who likes to wear a Kobe Bryant jersey around town even though there's no way they'll ever even be on a pro basketball court, much less play pro basketball.
The difference is between an option package and an entirely different car.
What it was, to what it was turned into.
If this new car means something to you, enjoy. Look at it in the garage or put it on the track & tear it up. They should have called this new car a Camaro TB.
Leave the z/28 as a performance option and keep your novelty Track Bastid seperate. But, what's done is done. Things change and not always for the best.
I also did not make any "garage statue" remark, that's my signature.
I'm not surprised by how much folks will spend on upgrading their cars, the aftermarket is huge. You can look all over these forums and see some impressive mods and beautiful cars. One more reason that it wasn't necessary to reinvent or destroy an icon.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:54 PM   #406
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There isn't room for BOTH an LS7-1LE AND a Z/28 as announced, with regard to weight-to-power. Now a 3500 lb Gen-6, suitably suspended and -braked, teamed with a 475 hp LT1 would be badge- and volume-worthy...

On this day of rejoicing...let's rejoice that we got what we got!

Stay tuned...
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:24 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by KSCamaro View Post
The difference is between an option package and an entirely different car.
What it was, to what it was turned into.
If this new car means something to you, enjoy. Look at it in the garage or put it on the track & tear it up. They should have called this new car a Camaro TB.
Leave the z/28 as a performance option and keep your novelty Track Bastid seperate. But, what's done is done. Things change and not always for the best.
I also did not make any "garage statue" remark, that's my signature.
I'm not surprised by how much folks will spend on upgrading their cars, the aftermarket is huge. You can look all over these forums and see some impressive mods and beautiful cars. One more reason that it wasn't necessary to reinvent or destroy an icon.
The Z28 would be an option package. The Z/28 is in fact an entirely different car. They may come out with the Z28 option in the future; especially once the Z/28 starts bringing in the racing glory. There is a difference in the designation; Z28 versus Z/28. You seem to be confusing the two. It's a very significant difference. There's absolutely nothing to say they won't add a Z28 option the same way they've added a 1LE option. It would probably be basically a 1LE with an appearance package and maybe a bit more horsepower. It would not be a Z/28. This is something I would expect in the 6th gen and maybe we'll see it. In the meantime I'm thrilled at what this new Z/28 is going to mean to the racing world.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:20 PM   #408
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He's made his point we've made ours. There's no convincing to be done here either way.

In the immortal words of Rambo, "let it go!"
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